Hi.  New to this but desperately need some help.  I got my puppy from a farm nearly two weeks ago - a labradoodle.  We did start off with the crate in the kichen but he didn't really take to it.  Cried and barked all night and done his business there too.  He was given a puppy hot water bottle, bedding, toys a ticking clock and the radio on.  Because it was his first night I gave in and kept going down to check on him every hour or so.  In the end I put him in a travel crate beside my bed but he wouldn't settle in that either. He cried and scraped at it for hours.  This routine was tried for a couple of days all to no avail.  After three days of the crate we tried just a tub bed with the kitchen door open but sealed off with a baby gate and newspaper around the door.  He is like a crazed animal from the minute we leave him.  Everything gets chewed - scrapes and bites at the gate, his bedding everywhere - newspaper looks like its been put through a shredder and even though he has just been out and done his business - 5 minutes later and he has done it again in the kithen. Benji is only 12 weeks and he doesn't soil in the house unless he is put to his bed or I leave him for an hour or so.  On the vets advice we have put the crate back up for bedtime.  From the minute he goes in to the minute I take him out he is like what I described above - a crazed animal.  Bed and newspaper is all in bits and he has again done his business in it.  Every morning I have to bathe him, wash his bed and a lot of cleaning up to do.  I have installed a DAP diffuser and spray his bed with the DAP spray.  Keep the radio on, ticking clock and tumble dry his bedding before bed for warmth and also put his hot water bottle in, along with a t-shirt with my scent.  It's getting very unbearable.  I can't even go to the toilet or have a shower and he is following me - can't lock him in the kitchen as he soils everwhere and goes crazy.  I have tried everything possible and it is now really getting to the point that well....  Please any advice would be appreciated.

Have you tried feeding him in his crate? He needs to associate it with good things and safety, not just with being left alone. The experts will be here soon to help I'm sure!

I agree with Lucy, he needs to associate his crate with good things he needs to be fed in there and have treats in there.  Maybe shut him in there whilst you are doing the washing up etc so he gets used being in it but not being left.

Hia - yes tried that too.  Having problems with him eating him meals too.  I put his meal down and he won't eat unless there is someone there standing beside him.  I can put his meal down, he will take a nibble then run away.  I have to tell him din dins and good boy and either pat him or sit beside him before he will eat.  Running out of ideas now.  Thanks.

sounds like he is getting very stressed when left or put in his crate. in a stressed situation dogs will often toilet and chew things. i would go back to basics and try leaving him for a minute at a time then walking back in the kitchen and always ignore him before you leave and when you return for a little while, this way he will get less wound up when he sees you.
i havn't used a crate for any of my dogs so can't advice on that but he doesn't need to associate it with good things ie feeding him in it etc and any treats given when he goes in.
hopefully someone will be able to help more but don't forget he's only a baby and these things take time and a lot of patience. i think most people with a puppy have been though a certain amount of chewing and toileting everywhere but they do grow out of it in time given the right guidance. 

Tried that too but the minute I put him in he runs out.  I put him back and close the gate and he starts crying barking and soils straight away even with me in the room.

Several times during the day I put him in the kitchen, close the baby gate and go away for 5/10 mins then go back and ignore him.  The only time he will sleep or is happy is when someone is there beside him.  Even doing the dishes he lies beside me.  He wants constant attention! Like I said have tried the crate and a bed, both to no avail.  Thanks for the advice.  My vet said the last resort after DAP products will be a behavour therapist.

Just wondered, it may shed some light on things, it may not.
When you say you picked your pup up from a farm, was he and the litter together? Were they raised in a house or somewhere else? Just wondered what interaction was given to him as a youngster. I take it he was 10 weeks when you got him, is that right? Do you know how much socialisation the breeder put in with him and the others?

i wouldn't start shutting the door on the crate until he feels happy in it, he needs to go in on his own for treats etc and be able to get back out so he doesn't feel trapped. only when he's happy will he begin to settle in it. if he is toileting as soon as you shut the door then he is very stressed. i think it's a little quick for a behavour therapist, as i said he's a baby and never been on his own before and this will take time for him to get used to.
i know it's very ahrd work when you get a puppy but a lot of people have the same problem and you need to be patient with him. if he does mess don't tell him off else this will stress him more, always ignore it and clean up.
i hope someone can advice you more, i wouldn't even leave him 5/10 mins at this stage, just go in and out the kitchen every min or so and then slowly lengthen the time.

He was in a barn which was divided into 3 breeding areas.  She had a full litter of bearded collies and a full litter of borderdoodles.  Benji and his brother were the last two of a litter of 10.  He was just roaming about in what I think was sawdust.  He was caged up in an area space of about 6 sqm.  Got him on a Saturday when he just turned 11 weeks, he will be 12 weeks this weekend.  Took him straight to the vets as he hadn't had any injections (to my knowledge from the breeder he had only been wormed).  It turned out he had ear mites.  He is a very playful and well behaved puppy - just not when he is left alone.  Not really how much time she spent with them but it looked liked only to clean the pen and feed.

Thanks for the advice but only going by what my vet is suggesting.  Most of the day the baby gate and his crate gate are left open but he wants to spend all his time in the living room - or following me wherever I go.  I have had a puppy before and have never had this problem before.  My ex-mother-in-law is a breeder and have done everything she has suggested too.  I really don't want my puppy to be in the bedroom right now.  Tried the crate in the bedroom but that didn't work.  Don't want to go down the route of having him sleeping in my bedroom all the time either.  Have tried him sleeping beside my bed on his blanket and he does settle but that is really getting him in a routine of sleeping beside me and giving in to constant attention.  I need to be able to go out the house to go shopping etc. 

OK don't panic - it's all sortable :)

When you say farm do you mean agricultural farm or puppy farm?  Knowing this might give us some clues about background and upbringing.  There may be a few things you need to help him overcome to move forward.  When you collected him at 10 weeks was he still with his mother, other siblings, was he in the house or a kennel, what routines did they have for feeding and toileting?

Puppies have a eat sleep and play routine that is almost completely governed by input and output.  At this age he'll need to go out after every meal and you need to wait outside with him until he's finished.  Mine is 12 weeks and he will pee immediately after eating but a pooh may take at least half an hour after food (lovely topic eh?!).  In between times he'll need to be out every 30 minutes or so.  Once you get used to his routines you can be absolutely sure he's empty before you put him in his crate.

Crate training is relatively easy but there are some basics you need to be aware of.  No 1 is never try and put him in there if he isn't ready for a sleep.  You want him to associate the crate with positive things like proper flat out sleeping and a den to take his treasures.  When you need to leave him in there then little and often is the key but also you need to hang around until he is nods off.  Try and leave too soon and he'll ping into wakefulness then get fretful and/or anxious.  There's no need to shut the door til he is sleeping, just keep encouraging him to go back in by tosing treats in if necessary or by helping him play with a toy in there.  You may need to undo a bit of anxiety created by his upbringing so you may find your pup just takes longer to adjust.

What are your timings for food and are you still on 4 meals?  I find my 12 wk pup still gets completely knocked out by every meal so he's unconscious for at least an hour not long after eating.  This at least makes it a bit easier to organise my day.  What are you feeding?  There are some foods that are almost guaranteed to create a hyper puppy :)

I'm still at the stage with mine where I do not attempt to leave him until he is happy and comfortable, I use baby gates to contain him to wipe clean rooms too, and I wait til he is asleep, or quiet, or happy playing before attempting to leave the room.  It's hard work but actually makes for a more confident puppy later on.  If he's much too awake to settle we go for a wander round the garden, play with toys or do a few training exercises.  You may be seeing a lab trait of chewing so make sure you have lots of suitable teething toys and rotate them to keep him interested.

>I really don't want my puppy to be in the bedroom right now.  Tried the crate in the bedroom but that didn't work.  Don't want to go down the route of having him sleeping in my bedroom all the time either.  Have tried him sleeping beside my bed on his blanket and he does settle but that is really getting him in a routine of sleeping beside me and giving in to constant attention.  I need to be able to go out the house to go shopping etc.

OK - I took so long to reply I missed some of your responses!

He's still a tiny baby and a couple of weeks behind in his training.  It's probably a bit too late to say that this is a common problem with the type of place you got him from BUT you are going to have to do a bit of catching up.

I got mine at 8 weeks and he spent the first 3 weeks upstairs with me at night in a spare crate.  This does not create a problem for later.  He does not know he is in your bedroom - he just knows he is in a comfy bed/crate.   Your sounds of sleeping mimic the effect of sleeping with litter mates and is very soothing for a pup.  Choose a smallish 30" crate for now with an top opening door so that you can drop a hand in to comfort him if he gets distressed.  His bladder capacity and control is small at the moment so you want him to be able to communicate to you that he needs to go out.  it's very common for pups of this age not to hold on at night for more than 3 hours so take him out during the night too.  The other benefit of having him with you is that you have time to learn how often he needs to go.  In a couple of weeks you will be able to set your alarm to come down to him before he wakes up properly and get him back into his crate without properly waking up.  YOU have to teach him how to pee and pooh outside with lots of encouragements lots of praise and setting him up to get it right.

If he wants to sleep near you during the day he's telling you he feels comfortable and safe with you - what a privilege that is.  Take him to his crate (it makes sense to have two, 1 upstairs, and 1 down - try eBay for 2nd hand ones)  take a book and stay with him til he sleeps.  In a few weeks you will have taught him that this is the best place to be and he won't mind you being somewhere else.  Raising a confident puppy does take a bit of time and you are a few weeks behind.  Don't worry though it will come.  In the meantime give up your time to teach him how to behave and he will pay you back in spades. 

Please remember you are not giving in to your puppy you are giving your puppy what he needs :)

As far as I could see it was an agricultural farm.  A lot of animals - chickens, horses, etc.  According to the breeder he was taken away from his mother at around 8 weeks.  I did ask to see the mom and she was locked up in a room beside the breeding stable.  Benji and his brother were the last two of a litter of 10.  Benji gets bed 3 times a day althoug he doesn't eat the lot he goes back about a couple of hours later for another nibble unless I sit with him and coax him into finishing.  I let him out every hour if he is awake or straight away after waking.  I sit outside with him for at least 20 mins before bed and he does do the toilet but still manages to find it from somewhere to soil his bed. Benji will just not go in his crate.  I coax him with treats, tried his food in there but that didn't work.  All his toys are in there but will take them straight out and go in the living room.  My son sits inside his crate with him so he knows its ok.  I put him in, stroke him, etc but the minute I walk away he's back out again.  Even when I tried the tub bed he would do the same.  He just wants to sleep wherever I am (at my feet).  I am down to 3 meals a day.  8am, 3pm and 9pm. I feed him with beta puppy with a scrammbled egg at breakfast, beta puppy with a can of puppy food at tea time and beta puppy with sardines at 9pm.

He will fall asleep in teh living room and sometimes if I sneak about I am able to leave him but I want this sort of behaviour while sleeping in the kitchen.

Thank you...

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.  I did try the small crate which I brought him home in.  It is about the size you are recommending.  It is a material one with zips.  He again like he is in his crate, soiled straight away and scraped and yelped and barked and went crazy straightaway.  When I put his blanket beside my bed he settled and slept but with the bedroom being upstairs he can't get down for the toilet.  Like I said previously he doesn't soil in the house any other time other than when I leave him alone.  He is brilliant at going outside for the loo.

He is so mischievious - its funny.  Stealing socks, clothes etc.  He is very playful too.  Just won't settle on his on!

Thanks again!!

It sounds like he has not has had the socialisation you would have expected from a good breeder and so he has been brought into a situation that is totally alien to the poor little lad.

When you say asked  to see the mother did you and what was she like ? Was she freindly, calm and approachable ?

You will need patience to get him to feel comfortable in his own space as it sounds like you are a new focus that he is relishing and is more than happy to try and spend as much time as he can with you. You have to give him confidence to be able to be left as further down the line you will have issues with seperation anxiety.

With reference to him soiling in his bed try and get the last feed into him a little later maybe as it may give him chance to hold on until the morning. He will not be used to understanding  where he is or is not allowed to soil as if he has been in the pen he will not have been know the difference between inside and outside and what he is suppoosed to do. It will come with time but you will need patience.

This is the problem getting a puppy that has not been brought up in a home environment where the initail training will have already been started. We all learn though by experience !

Keep at it you will get there !

Got to see the mum.  She was very friendly, happy and approachable, had a good sniff at us.  Not very calm quite boisterous and hyper but happy.  This is why I am trying to get advice - I don't work, I am at home all day but still need to go out at times.  He gets himself so stressed out though.  Apart from crate and bed training and being left alone he is a great puppy!!

> Benji gets bed 3 times a day althoug he doesn't eat the lot he goes back about a couple of hours later for another nibble

Are you leaving his food down so he can eat when he wants? If so i'd look to stop that, it will your toilet training issue that much easier. Give him his food in his crate, each and every time and if after 10 minutes he's left some pick it up and don't give him anything until his next meal time. You'll probably soon start to see him eat a lot more and this way you can see what he is eating and when and put him outside after each meal.

> I did ask to see the mom and she was locked up in a room beside the breeding stable.

I'm sorry to say this sounds an awful place to get a puppy from.
Either way you have a pup you need to work with and it will get better, but a lot slower. A colleague got a puppy from a puppy farm, she too had big issues with toilet training too.

All in all if you put the effort in then you'll reap the rewards, and in this instance i'd be putting the bed/crate in your bedroom(Not what i'd normally do, but think you need to be flexible here) too overnight if he'll sleep in it, making sure that you get him up, with no fuss every few hours for toilet duties.
This wee lad need to have his confidence built up. Have you started getting him out and about in your arms and in the car? He needs to be socialised. Have you also looked into puppy classes he can join as soon as he's had his 2nd jab?

>with the bedroom being upstairs he can't get down for the toilet.

Tee hee THIS is one of the reasons why it pays to get them a bit younger - they aren't quite the baby hippo proportions they reach later and can still be carried!!  Ours came downstairs at 11 weeks ish (after 3 upstairs) mostly because he was settled but partly because he's a struggle to carry whilst we were half asleep.  Although even now at 12 weeks and 12.2kg I carry mine ouside if I need to be sure he gets out before he has an accident.  If I allow him to toddle along behind me he sometimes gets distracted en-route.

If I were you I'd substitute the lounge for the bedroom and sleep downstairs with him for a bit if he's too heavy for you to carry downstairs.  Try using a proper metal crate - fabric ones can freak them out a bit and I wouldn't trust a puppy not to wreck it in 5 mins.  They are also a bugger to clean and if you can't remove every trace of odour then he will just repeat soil in there.  I like one downstairs crate only as several sleep locations can be a bit confusing in the early days but I'd say that you want to make it as easy as possible for him to be in his crate so it may actually help you to have two downstairs ones (kitchen and lounge?)

Another trick to acclimatise a scared puppy to a crate is to encourage him to walk through it as often as possible.  Perhaps your son can help with this.  Try getting the pup to walk in through one of the doors and out through the other to his bowl of food or a treat - gradually adjust it so that he remains stood in the crate whilst eating.  He will come good with a little ingenuity and lot of patience.  Learning to settle is such a hard thing for some puppies they'd much rather be velcro'd to your feet :)

I know, I know, I know - learnt my lesson getting a puppy from a puppy farm and also at 10 weeks rather than 8 but its done now and I have to learn by my mistake although he is really a great mistake!!!  Sue I will try that with the meal times and food.  I have just been leaving his food for him to eat when he wants.

I did sleep on the settee a couple of nights and he was settled beside me on his blanket.  The only thing is I really don't want him to be too dependent on me.  Its a metal cage I have downstairs but had the fabric one for bringing him home in upstairs.  He just won't take to either.

It was a nightmare for my first visit to the vet.  I put him in the small material crate and had a 10 mile journey but unfortunately he had poo'd in it after only being in the car for 5 mins.  Not being properly prepared I had to take a very smelly dirty puppy into the vet.  Any suggestions on where to place him or train him for being in the car as I have vet again on Monday for his second jab.

This is what I did with my pup.

His 'safe' area was the kitcnen,  I work from home & at the time my computer was in there so I was always in the kitchen with him, he was left in there on his own while I got on with housework but that was while he was sleeping. At night he slept on his own in the kitchen BUT he was happy with this from day one and I had another dog downstais so he wasn't completely alone (would have done things different if he wasn't happy with that arrangement).
For the first few days, every single one of my pups meals was fed to him by hand - me sat on the floor, food bowl in my lap, offering him his grub by the handfull (as fast as he would eat it, I never made him wait). I then progressed to putting his bowl on the floor, standing beside him and adding handfulls to the bowl. This served to teach him that the hand GIVES. In your case it would also serve to teach pup a positive association of food=company so therfore mealtimes are good and in time he will be happy to eat on his own (seems as if he is associating feeding with being left, at the moment and he is not keen on being left).

Being that your pup is not relaxed with his crate, I personally would not feed meals in his crate for now, untill he is actually happy to eat a meal on his own (or the cycle of not wanting to eat on his own may be re-enfoirced by the displike of being  in his crate - you can't use a meal as a positive association if he is not happy about eating a meal alone).

Every time you leave pup alone and he is unhappy with it, it will only serve to make him more unhappy about being left alone, the best way to build his confidance is to not leave him alone for longer than he can cope with (that could be 2 seconds or 10 mins, depends on the pup). If needs be, you can (for example) start with him behind a baby gate in the kitchen, while you are sat the other side of the baby gate -then go in the kithcen to see him after a few minutes, after a few days/reps of him being happy with this move a little way from the gate etc.... You need to work within HIS comfort levels or you'll not make any progress.
To look at it from pups POV - YOU give him confidence & make him feel happy, so the more you deny him access to you the less confidant he will be and the more reliant on you he will be so the more he NEEDS to be with you........ Allowing him to be with you, while gently & slowly showing him how he can be apart form you is the only way to have a dog that will be happy to be on it's own.

I am so glad I found this forum.  You are all great!!!  I will try a few of all your suggestions but think I am going to have to go back to the blanket beside my bed.  The problem I am going to still have though is when I need to leave him and go out for an hour or so.

Thank you everyone!!!

Getting used to the car is a very similar process to getting used to the crate.

Start by putting him in the boot or crate in the car and give him a treat, praise him and remove him. Do that a number of times a day and gradually increase the time he is there. Some people feed their dogs there too.
It will take time and I was wondering seeing as the vets is a lot sooner than this is all going to take, is there a friends/relative you can hold the pup in the car while you drive?

How was he when you brought him back from the farm to your house? Was someone holding him, did he behave?

> also at 10 weeks rather than 8 but its done now and I have to learn by my mistake.

I brough my pup home when he was 11 weeks old, he does not have any seperation issues atall. I spent all of my time with him, and was very carefull not to leave him alone long enough for him to get upset by it.

>The only thing is I really don't want him to be too dependent on me

Spending lots of time with your pup, if done in the right way should not make him dependant on you it should actually make him independant as he has never learnt to be upset by being alone :) (you have to SLOWLY build up the time they are left alone in order to teach this)

Sue I don't always have someone to come with me but I will try this time.  I will try that from now taking him in the car and around the block sitting on my son's lap as like previously said he will just do the loo in his crate straight away. 

We brought Benji back in the material crate and he was ok.  He was put in the back seat beside my son.  He kind of slept most of the way.  He did wee a little and was sick a couple of times but apart from that ok that's why I am baffled why he won't settle in it now.

Oh he is so so trying but fingers crossed I will get there.  Going to try and spray my car with the DAP spray see if that helps.

> I will try that from now taking him in the car and around the block sitting on my son's lap

If he really hates the car, then just parked up outside your house without the engine on to start with will be enough, and as the time in the car slowly increases then you can move onto the engine being on, but not moving.

I do think purely just for this vets visit to find someone to go with you, reduces the whole stressful situation. Sick is one thing, but covered in poo is different.

Bless him, its a whole new environment and surroundings for him and he's finding his feet and you are the one he trusts.
I must of missed the part where he is not happy eating in the room without you being right by his side. ML and DAB have both got some very good ideas too. It's picking bits out and working slowly through them rather than doing it all at the same time.

Again I would just like to thank you all!!!!

much of the norm has already been said, but dont be too disheartend (sp) as i know of a few pups from very good breeders that have similar issues either sick / poo in the car and poo in the crate. some pups just dont "do" crates so it's worth remembering he is an individual, pups / dogs are not robots and dont read the same textbook as we do. as has been said try to stop leaving his food down for him as this will help regulate his boul movements - also something i had to do with my girl who did not appreciate being in a crate and made her feelings very much known, everytime she crashed (which is less frequent at benji's age unfortunately) i put her in the crate, you must watch for him waking up so you can be there with the praise for being good (and obviously straight out to the toilet)

not knocking at the fact he's from a puppy farm......but..... its worth considering that the owners of these places will probably not do any health tests whatsoever so when at the vets if you can get a once over to then have peace of mind that his frequent pooing is not a medical issue (maybe take a stool sample with you if possible )

you dont say what brand of food you use (or if you do then i appologise) as some foods tend to produce more waste than others. are you putting newspaper in the crate? this may be giving mixed signals that it is "ok" to toilet in there? how big is the crate ? i had to put a blacket over the crate for our girl which worked wonders. but i would definatley advocate sleeping close to the pup - my girl was reliably clean at 9 weeks old

with the travel thing - as others have said just do short in and out engine running, possibly with fave teddy or toy.

I would  also suggest if you know you are going out to try and use the time before go to do some training / play time with him as it will wear him out in both body and mind and he is more likely to sleep whilst you are out. Do this very gradually making your time away a little longer each time.

> I did sleep on the settee a couple of nights and he was settled beside me on his blanket. 

I know I have said this before, have a breed that I didn't want doing the stairs and far to heavy to carry. I slept beside him for a couple of nights  (his seperation anxiety and baying could not be ignored) while he slept in his basket in the kitchen and then moved slightly futher away every night. It didn't take long for me to get back up stairs and everyone got a good nights sleep. He was used to a cage but prefered him to sleep in his basket and get used to it while I was there. Good luck.

I have had my puppy 8 weeks now and thanks to the good advice on here she is now sleeping through. I am sleeping on the sofa as I broke my leg so cant manage the stairs well myself never mind carrying a huge labrador puppy. I slept the first few weeks with her in a big plastic box with an open top initially I had my hand in it then I closed a mesh lid with my hand on top. The box is about 2ft deep by 2ft long by 18 inches  so can use it in the car too being solid it is easy to clean too. it has a towel in it but she is clean and has never fouled her bed. She now sleeps through from about 10.30 -6.30 in an adult size crate with the door shut. She is thanks to the box completely house trained and reliable and never cries or whines when she is in the big crate for an hour or so while we go out, again no paper just bedding in the big crate. She is with me all the time and for her first few weeks never left my side She is superb at sitting and 90% recall even in a big field is confident and happy with anyone too so the advece on here is brilliant. I am so delighted with her it is a pleasure to have her around So many thanks to those that helped me I hope this small tale gives you a little hope too He will come right perhaps just letting him have his way until he get his confidence is the way to go the more confident he gets the more likely is he will settle knowing you aways reappear

So it is obvious that your poor puppy is utterly stressed by a crate. Just a simple question: why does he have to go in one?

G.Rets - he doesn't NEED to be in a crate.  If you read my previous posts I have tried both the bed and the crate.  He is exactly the same in both!!  I am going by my vet's advice to reinstate the crate (which I put away for 4 days).  My puppy is stressed whether the crate is there or not.  It is being on his own that I feel is stressing him out!

Mistral - thanks for your comment.  I am going to try out some of the help given today and keep my fingers crossed.  :)

I would leave the crate in position, with the door open, and only feed him or give him treats in there. Don't close the door - he won't learn to trust it if he feels trapped.

> I am going by my vet's advice to reinstate the crate

Benji. This is not meant as a criticism but why not deal with one problem at a time, if he is so stressed with the crate and seperation. If he slept on the blanket/bed with you beside him start with that and then move gently away and then during the day when you are around continue getting him to settled in his crate. Also vets can be great but not always the best with behavioural concerns.