Have just heard of a possible loophole in the scheme from a friend, who says she has heard that dogs can enter the country from Eire, that have previously been imported from anothe Country without any passport or quarantine..
so you buy a puppy in Sweden/Norway/Belgium, it gets flown to Eire, I dont know how long it has to stay, a day or two ??? and is then shipped to the UK with no problems.....Has anyone else heard of this, can it be done....??????

Just wondering if this was true or just another rumour  ?????

Jenny,

Just had a google and there is one quarantine kennel in Ireland from what it appears.

It has the same as us in that a pet goes through the passport scheme or is put into quarantine
http://www.migrantproject.ie/images/12.%20Bringing%20your%20pet%20to%20Ireland.pdf
http://www.pettravel.com/immigration/Ireland.cfm

HTH..

How stringent they are if flown in from say the countries you mention who knows? But one would hope they are as its a Rabies free country.

As suejaw says the requirements and entry points carriers are the same for Ireland as for UK.  http://www.borderwise.ie/en/CBMLP/Cross-Border-Mobility/Live/Current-Topics/EU-Pet-Passport-Regulations---Republic-of-Ireland/

That is why there is free movement between UK and Eire.

Good thing seeing how many people take their dogs over to shows.

DEFRA are being so annoying.  It is about time that any dogs from countries where there is no rabies could just come over.  The government and others are saying they want diversity and health improving they don't realise how hard it is to do this, many breeders in our breed as we have found especially at the moment due to the financial climate are not willing to keep the pups until their pet passport has finished.

> many breeders in our breed as we have found especially at the moment due to the financial climate are not willing to keep the pups until their pet passport has finished.

or when they are it is very expensive, so beyond many people's purse, about the same as putting them through quarantine, the benefit being the dog will get socialised.

Travelling with your bitch is very expensive, and of course she may not get mated, get pregnant or have the quality in the sex you wanted to keep.

To true Brainless!  I need a small boy for my second youngest girl who I want to mate this next year.  There are some lovely boys with good health tests over here but like her are on the bigger side.  Was hoping that her mum would have a nice litter to help finance me going abroad with Calida, sadly that wasn't to be LOL!  Shame as there's a boy I think I'd like to use in Spain.

Maybe I'll win the lottery tonight!!

Anyone know any more about the 12 week rumour for 2012?

Hi,

It has been a while since I trawled the DEFRA website but if memory serves the derogation the UK and others is due for review at the end of 2011 but this has been reviewed before so not entirely sure.
Jeff.

This is the most up to date info I could find:

The European Commission has published a proposal to extend the transitional arrangements applicable for the movement of pet dogs, cats and ferrets into the UK, Ireland, Finland, Malta and Sweden until 31 December 2011. This proposal needs to be agreed by the European Parliament and Council before it can be formally adopted.

They may extend it yet further so don't book any 12 week olds yet but if they don't I will be in the queue!!!! :-)

Jeff.

Thanks, everyone in my breed is on hold at the minute as we'd all rather wait a year or 2 and bringing a 12wk old than get one now that comes over at 10 months with unknown training and socialisation.  Not to mention the cost!

the pup would still be 6 months not 12 weeks if the rules for PET passports change to 3 months from successful blood titre, as the bloods aren't taken until pups are 3 months old.

I wish theyd kept the other scheme alongside Pet passport, that allowed dogs to be flown in direct from their breeders homes at around 12 weeks of age, it is soo ridiculous that this cant be done still from rabies free countries....

Like everyone says it makes it nigh impossible to obtain new blood from abroad, our breed is at a stand still and we are so desperate for males, not helped by some people keep on using the same old dogs and now a few years on there is nothing to mate to coz they are too closely related.....

Will have to keep trawling to find someone to keep a puppy abroad until it can come over...when I can find a decent puppy that is...lol....

> I wish theyd kept the other scheme alongside Pet passport, that allowed dogs to be flown in direct from their breeders homes at around 12 weeks of age, it is soo ridiculous that this cant be done still from rabies free countries....
>
>

I spent ages looking for this rule, even phoned a quarantine kennels up and no one knew what i was on about.  I was looking to see if this was still current as i wan't a pup from abroad.

i take it, its no longer an option.

>> I wish theyd kept the other scheme alongside Pet passport, that allowed dogs to be flown in direct from their breeders homes at around 12 weeks of age, it is soo ridiculous that this cant be done still from rabies free countries....
>>
>>
> I spent ages looking for this rule, even phoned a quarantine kennels up and no one knew what i was on about.  I was looking to see if this was still current as i wan't a pup from abroad.
>
> i take it, its no longer an option.

Its no longer an option because it never existed!   No animal can enter this country at that age unless it's going to undertake quarantine.

>I spent ages looking for this rule, even phoned a quarantine kennels up and no one knew what i was on about.

Are you thinking of the Balai Directive? I believe that's now been superceded by PETS.

Balai was no quicker than pets passports -but it was worse, because the dog wasn't allowed to leave the breeders' premises at ALL for a full 6 months. Not even for a walk. Okay for cats, not for dogs........

Yes, PETS is much better in that respect.

The 12 week one was supposedly going to happen a couple of years ago, then 2012 but then nothings been said of it since.  Why can't dogs be brought in from rabies free countries without waiting 7 months?

Well most of these countries are not truly Rabies free, just have Rabies under decent control.

What I can't understand is the logic of the 6 month wait.  No-one checks to see if anything has happened to the animal in that 6 months, they aren't retested, so if your going on the titre level 6 months earlier and as long as Rabies boosters are up to date they are never checked again, why the 6 months wait?

If it was Rabies jab, rabies titre, good result, allow entry to UK, depending on how fast the lab results come back a puppy could be brought in at around 18 - 20 weeks.

I suspect the six month rule was to cover the rare chance that the aminal had been exposed to rabies PRIOR to the vaccination, as incubation period for rabies is up to 6mths in dog. As there is no treatment for rabies the vaccine must not be affective if given after exposure. 
K

but the point is as there is no further check after the titre blood draw how would this be a safeguard?  The dog incubating or in the early stages of Rabies could end up being brought in, and of course the ones that were born here would nto have been exposed at all, so why do dogs born here have to wait 6 months after the titre test before they can return to UK (assuming they never left these shores)?

We are assuning after the first titre test that the Rabies vaccine works, as they are never tested again as long as Rabies vaccs up to date..

I do see your point but will play devils advocate :)

The six mth rule from positive titre to GB entry for overseas dogs -- certainly no blood test re rabies after initial titre BUT the dog would need to go to a vet for tick & flea treatment prior to travel.  If exposed to rabies prior to vaccination the dog SHOULD in theory be displaying clinical signs of disease by that point, as it would be minimum of 6.5mths from vaccination.  Remember the vaccine is effective from 2 weeks post inoculation so exposure would have to occur prior to vaccination and incubation is max of 6mths often less. Would hope at the passport vet check a vet would pick up signs of rabies. 

As for dogs born in Uk I can see no valid reason for the 6mth wait as vaccine is effective after 2 weeks, titres prove immunity,  so no problem in my eyes. Probably a case of trying to keep rules crystal clear re passport scheme ie not one rule for UK bred dogs and one rules for others.

K

but there are already differing rules.  For example to go to Norway and Sweden the titre needs to be done at least 120 days after vaccination, but dogs from UK can enter directly without any titre testing (though obviously would need to comply with our re-entry rules if coming back).

...but I had my problem when we wanted to go to Sweden with Daisy - Sweden wanted a blood test 120 days after her rabies booster in August.    My vet tried to explain to me that the reason that there is a small window for taking the blood titres over here is that the immunity shows up in the blood/plasma for just a short time, after that it is carried within the cell, and will come up negative if it's tested for later.

Now can someone explain how the Swedish system will come up with a positive test after 120  days??   This is after the cut-off date for getting a positive test. 

Confused?

So am I........

Jo

Well when I did my Inka I waited for the 120 days as even though I am going to US with her, I still wanted the option of her being compliant for Sweden and Norway without having to have a second titre test.  Her titre test came back fine.

I had two Rabies shots though as her half sister conceived in Finland had failed when I waited for more than 120 days.  Inka's blood was tested just over 120 days after her second Rabies jab (they were given a month apart).

When we went to the WDS In Sweden we tested both after 30 days and after 120 days to comply with both countries (without having to wait for 6 months after the 120 days, so could wait 6 months after 30 days to get back to the UK) and both tests were fine.
Edited to say: and there was just the one rabies vaccination.

Your quite right you can come back after the first titre test, but if you want to avoid doing two, then you need to wait until the 120 days.

What about the dogs that pass the UK entry rules titre but 120 days later fail the Swedish entry rules?
These dogs are still perfectly ok to come to the country as they have already passed the passport rules for UK.

Surely the fact that this happens shows the 6 month wait is little pointless as if the dogs titre fails 120 days after the vaccine by the time it is coming to UK it is not protected to the level the Passport rules require and could have caught the rabies whilst waiting?

I know lower level is ok to give protection but the passport requires certain level for dogs to pass I wonder how the level required was selected?

Sweden is changing its pets passports rule. The first change went through in June this year, next will be June 2011, final one January 2012. It is all going to be relaxed with some requirements dropped. (Don't know which.)

Well most of these countries are not truly Rabies free, just have Rabies under decent control.

This is me being curious here as I know nothing about pet passports at all. However, the UK isn't a rabies free zone either though. Someone in Scotland died from rabies a few years ago after being bitten by a bat.

Thank goodness - hope Sweden makes it MUCH easier to come from the UK.  

I still don't understand this business of the immunity being only carried within the cell - anyone??

Jo

I wish that it was easier for us to import from Sweden because they like us haven't really had a case of rabies for many, many years.

> Thank goodness - hope Sweden makes it MUCH easier to come from the UK.  
>
>

it is as long as your going direct (flying) and you haven't been outside the UK, then there is no waiting.

Maybe I was looking in the wrong place, but couldn't even find a flight that would take dogs (tried SAS to Gothenburg)

Jo

It doesn't have to be a Pet Passport route to fly out, so it's a mater of coat acting airlines to see if they will carry.