I am lucky enough as to not have to work, this is due to having 2 children the youngest is just 2. When we decided to get our puppy ( now 8 months) we had several visits to the breeder with our children even before the pups were born to assure her that our children understood how to treat a dog. She is not our 1st dog and our parents have dogs so my children were used to dogs. The beeder was very happy with us as a family and even more happy the the fact I was at home to give our pup all the care love and attention she needed. However I know a lot of breeders to not like their pups going to homes with young children , but my dog is never left for more than 2/3 hours now and as a pup I could gradually get her used to being left for short periods, dogs are sociable animals who thrive on company, It is so difficult for people as many do not have the luxury of not having to work , but surely if dogs are given good walks before and after work and a wee break in the day this is acceptable for an adult dog, but never a pup.

I would love to work less hours and fully intend to do so in the future but for now I work full time.  Monday - Thursday my dogs are left for 4 hours in the morning, I spend an hour at lunchtime with them - we play, we train and I try to mentally tire them! Then they have 3 1/2 hours in the afternoon before I am home.  1 of my dogs stays by herself and the Rotts have each other for company - they have toys and bones etc to keep them occupied.  On Friday's my OH is home from late morning with the dogs.

My evenings are spent taking the dogs on long walks and giving them my full attention whether this is through training, play or just company.  The weekends are also given to my dogs, I show and work them so we train, we compete, we show, we go on long walks and generally just do what dogs want to do!

I have well rounded dogs who are fit and healthy both physically and mentally.  After giving any breeders my background and working hours I have never been turned down - I will add these are breeders who are well respected in the dog world and have other very strict ideas on who gets  one of their beloved pups.

I also know of people who are home all day with their dogs and have numerous problems because they do nothing with them!

I don't believe you can have a blanket rule for every person.

I'll be honest with you - I never intended having a dog until I retired.  I had to rescue Maisie because I had no choice - she would have died due to the ill treatment or neglect I do not know which that, as a tiny pup, she had suffered from a previous owner - the RSPCA did not want to know and we made sure that she received the veterinary care that she needed to get back to health.  I rescued Billy from a similar fate and he has become a good friend to Maisie.   I work full time - can't afford to do otherwise - but this enables me to give Maisie and Billy the best life that I can give them.  We are devoted to them and spend as much of our free time as we can with them (they even have a regular doggie holiday).  I also have two wonderful ladies who I pay to walk them at lunchtime. 

I know that this is not ideal - I would love to afford to be able to work part-time but this is not an option. 

At least Maisie is alive and happy.

I see why many rescues do this but ultimatly I think in some cases its unneeded and may cost the dog a home (which could equal a life). I think mnay dogs can cope with being left longer than 4 hours and be happy with it.

Ultimatly it depends on the situation, if the dog has access to a large area another dog it likes and plenty to do surely that can't be a problem. What about dogs kennelled outside 24/7. Mnay of these are very happy.

Adam

We are lucky enough to have the dogs with us at work. But at weekends they get a two hour am walk, then we tend to buzz off a shop or do something and come back about 4 hours later and walk them again. If we are off to a rugby match at Twickenham I will leave them with our dog minder for the day and have a day out.
Holidays are either dog friendly - just back from a weekend at Centreparc with dogs and we have a couple of dog walking hols in Dorset & Kent. Abroad they are with Kelly  as they have been since small pups.

I think they could at a push manage 5/6 hours but I would feel guilty. At work I have to work so its a walk in at 7am a walk around the clock at 11am and home around 6ish walking again (3.5 miles). As pups we did not leave longer than a supermarket visit and they were crated. Until I could trust them and they were "toilet trained".

> Ultimatly it depends on the situation, if the dog has access to a large area another dog it likes and plenty to do surely that can't be a problem. What about dogs kennelled outside 24/7.

Personal opinion, i hate that.  No point of having a dog and no human company.  If it was for the day then fine but not always.

I still think that some dogs can cope being left for longer if it meant them having a home.  If everyone sat down and worked out a plan of action its doable.  Some dogs its a definite no no. 

We don't live in a perfect world to provide the ideal.  I'd never leave mine for five minutes but its not practical and they love to give me a greeting and a fuss when I get home.  You can't beat that.

My little dog is left for about 4 hours in the morning, and again for another 4 hrs in the afternoon.  I go home from work at lunchtime to feed and walk her.  I think she probably sleeps most of the time, although occasionally I do find toys that have been dragged out of her bed and in various places around the room, so presumably she does amuse herself from time to time!

The longest I think we've ever left her is for about 7 hours, and she is usually desperate for the loo by then.  This is a pretty rare occurrence, and I tend to fret a bit if we're very late getting back.  In an ideal world, my little baby would be with me 24/7, but unfortunately, I'm not Paris Hilton!!

My girls are left at anyone time for maybe three days a week at the most for 8 hours. The rest of the time I work from home or my OH is at home or the cleaner is with them.

They are absolutely fine as they snooze all day if given half the chance ! An example these week was when I got home earlier than expected so they had been alone for 7 hours and I let them out but they came straight back in joined me by the sofa in the sun and carried on snoozing even with the patio doors were wide open ! It was only when walkies and dinner was mentioned that I saw any signs of movement ! :-)

I am at home today and all I can hear is stereo snoring from their beds  ! 

If we have had puppies I have either been off work for a few months or I have got a dog sitter employed to come in and look after the pup through the first six months or so. I have also had a dog flap as well into a secure area in the garden and have never had any issues with barking as I always made sure this was the case with my neighbours.

Now we don't have a dog flap now but it still works as they have free run of the garden before and after work and they get at least an hours excercise a day plus training and playtime in the garden.

I have had dogs for over 20 years and have always worked but I also have made the dogs one of the most important parts of my life and many decisions are made around them ! It is all about the quality of the life of a dog and they get alot of attention when we are at home so to me they are happy dogs as that is one of my main objectives.

I think its that old cliche - quality time! 

> I have had dogs for over 20 years and have always worked but I also have made the dogs one of the most important parts of my life and many decisions are made around them ! It is all about the quality of the life of a dog and they get alot of attention when we are at home so to me they are happy dogs as that is one of my main objectives.

Well said, that pretty much sums up my life too :-)

and mine!

mine too!  Just picked up this post and have to agree on the quality of life...I have to work, I have no choice, my partner finally works after a lengthy illness (great for dogs as he was at home)...We have 2 collies at home and having lost both  my westies within the last 10 months I am desperate to rehome another, be it a pup or an older girl (or two).  But life keeps changing, work, health, work etc, I am now working 5 days a week 2 from home and the remainder of the time there is a child at home as htey have no classes at college or 6th form, but this it seems is not good enough for rescue as under 25's are deemed not responsible, no matter that the children have been brought up with dogs and will take them out for an additional walk to the ealry morning, after work and late night walks.  Or let them snuggle up in bed with them for most of the day (which was one of my old girls fave passtimes) Other than work our lives are all about the dogs...often saying oh we cant do that cos of the dogs etc....I have a home, a sofa,garden (complete with veg patch which they love to dig in!)  a nearby park, river bank,  regular trips to beach, no kennels for holidays(not that we go often) but their own holidays in Angelsey with a lovely family friend...oh and a wonderful vets too, but not deemed suitable! 
Arghh!

I don't often look back at the " Good old days", (I'm talking 27ish + years ago) and remember anything about those times that were better than now. But were dogs were concerned, I'm sure more families could have one, because less people worked, less trafic on the roads, so often you could just leave your dog to wander the avenue during the day because it was safer to do so (especially when the kids were out from school). My friends and I always had a few of the avenue dogs hanging around us, they were great company, we felt like the Famous Five with Timmy, only most of the time they were labs and crosses. And it was safe to leave them in the garden all day, with a home made kennel if they wanted shelter, than being locked up in a house for hours on end.

But times have changed, so reminiscing over.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Changing topic slightly, does the time a dog is left alone also apply to kennelled dogs? Ours are companions and live with us in the house but I understand some keep theirs outside. Yes if kennelled they have access to toilet facilities, but to leave a dog alone outside for long periods is no different to me than indoors.

> Changing topic slightly, does the time a dog is left alone also apply to kennelled dogs?

Sorry don't know the answer, I'm sure someone will. But I always think fresh air is better, they can relieve themselves if they need to, like you said, and I think they can at least hear a little of what is going on around the place.

My thinking is:
The right owner with the wrong house/working life is always better than the right house/working life with wrong owner!

> My thinking is:
> The right owner with the wrong house/working life is always better than the right house/working life with wrong owner!

I agree, the owner should be the most important thing in a dogs life, they rely on us to look after their welfare.
As long as they have a couple of walks a day, couple of feeds a day, a few cuddles then generally that's all a dog asks for. Some people will spoil their dogs because they are in the position to do so, such as retired folk who can be home all day with the dog, and this is everyones ideal. However not everyone is in this position, but few of these dogs being brought up in a working home, were they are left at home for periods of time, are any worse off for it, because I think if dogs have been brought up this way, they know no difference, it is what they are used to.

i am fortunate enough to be able to take my dog to work with me, but as a result of him rarely being left alone at home he barks when i leave him.  i often taken him to the supermarket with me where he sleeps in the car until i finish my shopping.  i dont like doing this, it restricts my movements, but when i took him on from the rescue i agreed he wouldnt be left for long periods.   theres always a catch 22 waiting to bite your bum!!

My dogs are also never left alone, except perhaps for the occasional shop which is only ever 2 hours or so.
My mother works nights, and I work days - and we are together for a couple hours (dog walking time) each day. The dogs love it.

I think more then 4 hours isn't good and more then 5 is very bad - that's roughly half the day gone.

Well you are very lucky to be in this position.  Most of us aren't.

That's why we have to make alternative arrangements.

Which is why we pay £50 a week to have my dogs walked/visited during the day when we are at work, walk them every day when we get home from work and take them on holiday with us. 

I think more then 4 hours isn't good and more then 5 is very bad

Gosh, I am a "very bad" owner then. Had the dogs out moving sheep from 6.30am to 11am. Came home..had lunch...dogs out for a pee....left home for just over 5 hours to go shopping and visit a friend in hospital. Dogs have been out running the fields....just had tea and are now flaked out in front of a wood burning stove :)

It's a dogs life eh?

> Dogs have been out running the fields....just had tea and are now flaked out in front of a wood burning stove :-)
>
> It's a dogs life eh?

Bliss :-) :-)

Mine are not left long, 4-5 hours at most, and they are never entirley alone. They have each other for company. I also have the luxury of a reliable doogie friend who I trust with my boys, should the need arise.

That should of course read "doggie " friend. Too late to edit!

Oh man, it is so funny when people talk about the hours and what is the maximum for a dog. There are so many factors that need to be taken into consideration.... one is the cultural environment. London area (where I live at the moment) is so incredibly multicultural and there is absolutely no way you will be able to convince everyone not to have a dog if they work full time. People come from places where dogs are only kept outside, or from places where dogs are not even considered to be pets. If you started talking 4 hour limit, they'll look at you as if you were crazy. There is no right or wrong, there is only different points of view (and I'm not saying that because I'm an Anthropologist, but because my experiences tell me so) ;).
Now, I come from continental Europe and let me tell you that most of us living in the city DO actually live in flats. Rome for example has no houses at all and if you tell Romans that they can not own a pet because they don't have a house, they'll think you're mad. Same story in Slovenia (my home). Kids or no kids, most people work full time and yet we've always had dogs. Some people live in houses, but majority of city folks live in flats. Loads and loads have dogs and parks are full after 5pm (when people come home from work). All my friends live their dogs either in their gardens/kennels or inside when working and quite frankly I haven't so far seen any of them suffering for it. They're all lovely, happy and balanced dogs that get plenty of exercise and companionship. It is true however, that we do not have a pub culture in Europe hehe. We do however have an afternoon coffee culture, which means that you get loads of dog owners (and dogs) sitting and socialising in little cafe's by the river. :)

I think in countries where many people own dogs and live in flats people must be more tolerant of noise etc than in the UK. 

So many flats in UK won't allow dogs, and those that used to are not allowing new tenants to have them, and there are covenants preventing dog ownership in many flats that are owner occupied.

Also I was horrified over the attitude over toileting and not picking up I have found when visiting Poland, and so many latchkey dogs.

If you have a dog and want to Rent in the UK it can be a nightmare finding housing.

Yes I think people are probably more tolerant, specially because they don't have much choice. If majority lives in flats, you put up with whatever you have to put up with. I myself grew up in a house, but a few years ago I also bought a flat in the coastal area of Slovenia. There's one major difference I noticed between English and European houses/flats though ..... the walls in Europe are much, much thicker and most of the floors are concrete, not wooden. All of this means that unless they're in a corridor outside, I can't even hear my neighbours. When I went to a flat in London however, I could hear their neighbours sneeze lol!

You were talking about dog poo on the streets.... come to South London, you won't be able to go for a normal walk without stepping into one!! :(

LOL, I was born and brought up in South London (Clapham Streatham, worked in Brixton) , and when I bought our flat stepped into one on the way to work, went back home to clean my sandal/foot and stepped into another. further up the road

What I meant is that most people don't see anything wrong with the dog mess, where here they do, even if so many people do let their dogs foul and don't pick up.

I was having a chat with my ex sister in law who has a dachs and she thought there was nothing wrong with allowing her dog loose to foul and laughs at me for picking up as she would find it disgusting, strange.

London streets are filthy, Bristol is not exactly sanitary but so much cleaner.

Oh I totally agree with you... some people don't see it as a problem! :( I don't know much about Polish laws, but in Slovenia you'd pay a hefty fine if you don't pick it up (I think it's about 150Euros), but like everywhere else, you'd always find people that don't care.
I remember even before the laws were enforced (ages ago when i was a kid) my mom always used to walk around with a bag and old newspaper and picking up our Lab's poo.... people used to look at her as if she was a crazy person lol!!

Hopefully things are changing in that respect

>If you have a dog and want to Rent in the UK it can be a nightmare finding housing.

That's true, though at least this recession did make people more willing to consider it, I was pleasantly surprised at the beginning of 2010 when we needed to rent for a few months to find a couple of landlords willing to consider not just 1 dog but 3, albeit small ones and fully housetrained adults. We did have to go back and vaccuum several times after vacating before they were satisfied we had removed enough hair from the carpets! I think it helped that we were perfectly willing to pay a hefty deposit per dog, it showed our confidence that they would not cause permanent damage and make us lose the deposit, and indeed we did get it all back.

Regarding picking up, I'm shocked how many people out here in the Suffolk village I now live in don't bother, I always pick up, and although some people in my north London park didn't, it's even worse out here, I thought for some reason that country folk would be better at responsible ownership than Londoners!

I was also horrified when visting Poland in 1993-4, there were so many dead dogs lieing on the verges around the flats and on country lanes. They were just left there.
As for not picking up, never go to Prague with sandles on!   

> I was also horrified when visting Poland in 1993-4, there were so many dead dogs lieing on the verges around the flats and on country lanes.

They were back then still just dogs pretty much free range like many of us are used to seeing cats be, and expected to take their chances.

Easy come easy g0o being mostly cheap to come by crossbreeds/mongrels.  Those with pedigrees taking a bit more care.

One nice thing I did see was a man got on a bus, his little terrier was sniffing the ground and the bus waited for him, the man got in sat down and the dog finished sniffing and jumped on the bus when he was ready.
Another thing I loved was people taking dogs in restorants and cafes wish it was more like that here.
This was in the Cezch republic.