SO IF YOU NO HOW TO GET HOLD OF A PITBULL LICENSE PLEASE COULD YOU TELL ME.

the best place to get one is your local police station :D

What kind of licence would that be then. A TV licence /dog licence/shotgun licence for the sawn off that all pit bulls carry inside their coat/a drivers licence maybe.

Folks,

Although this thread alternates between being both funny and sad, it's made me ponder on the fact that I police in Wiltshire where we are often sent to examine injuries on humans from dogs and are then responsible for putting the court files together, reporting the owner for summons, contacting RSPCA & the KC to report said dangerous dog etc.

The crazy thing is, I own dogs but I'm no expert and I probably wouldn't recognise a pit bull if it bit ME on the ass! I've seen the pics in breed books but as the Honourable Sir Lord Justice Rightousness (did I leave anything out?!) Mick has pointed out, if it's been cross bred with anything else I wouldn't stand a chance. Would someone do me the honour of e-mailing me some pics or pointing me to a web site?

Re this chap who breeds pit bulls but nothing is being done about him - I'm at a loss really. If there is a specific offence in english law that clearly states "YOU MUST NOT BREED PIT BULLS OR YOU'LL GET A SERIOUSLY SPANKED BOTTOM", then he should be reported to appear in court and explain himself. It's upto the judge from then on. If I were his neighbour and disagreed with the whole thing then I'd be writing to my local force to point out that the police officers involved should be spoken to about neglecting their duties. I have a sneaky feeling that something would then happen about this chap very quickly.

I know it must be a terrible shame if his dogs are a perfect example of the breed, but the rest of us have to abide by the law, so why isn't he. (Perhaps he's a mason and best buds with the Chief Constable!! In which case, forget it - the judge will let him off anyway!)

Ta

Lady G

You can't get a pitbull licence!!!! When the dangerous dogs act was brought in all pitbulls had to be registered and neutered and importation from other countries was banned so any pitbull legally in this country should be a very good age and unable to have puppies.Anyone in the uk breeding pitbulls is breaking the law.

HI satincollie
Lets hope nobody is breeding American Pitbulls in the UK they can be classed has a DANGEROUS WEAPON
in the wrong hands:ie bad experinance once.

Ah yes Zimzam but you said yourself in the wrong hands,any dog could be classed as dangerous in the wrong hands.I was just stating facts not critising the breed :D Gillian

The inport of Pit Bull Terrier's into this country is illegal and also since all PBT's in this country have had to be nutered and registered for a good number of years there can be no puppies in the country.

John

Even a miniture terrier

Has no-one heard the tinkle yet .....when you move your leg !!!!!:D
Liz

trip...trap.....there is another billy goat approaching the bridge.....;)

yep theres no stopping them now

...and the bullies in the other threads will soon complain about that too..... they dont want the trolls but they dont want admin......

The thing is though there are lots of pit bulls being bred in the uk , we have a chap a few streets from us and he has 4 . Three breeding bitches and a stud dog, with a litter on the way , he has been reported many a time but no-one enforces anything on him , he has has visits from the RSPCA and the police but as the dogs are well cared for and not used as fighting stock they have left him alone.
as they are hard to get hold of he charges £2000 per pup and there is a market for them.
It's so sad really, but if the laws are not being upheld what can we all do?

Sam

I think the people who know nothing about this breed should shut up.

£2000 a pup. Ha Ha Ha. £400 is all an APBT costs. They are available. However they are rarely advertised as they are sold before they are born.
Dodgy breeders will sell you what they term as APBTs. Doesnt mean they are. Very few people that dont know the breeds could correctly tell the difference between a long leggy staff an ISBT or an APBT or a lab x boxer or a staff x boxer. So leave the bull terriers in peace for a change. Go and annoy traffic wardens or something.
If you cant see the wind up here there is something wrong. Pit bulls are illegal. (If they were not I would have half a dozen) You cant get a licence for them. Its not a pit bull licence you need. Its a life.
To Guest
If you need to put stupid posts on boards looking for one you dont know enough about them and shouldnt have one. Its people like you who get the breed a bad name and you have never had any intention of owning one. You just want to stir up trouble to spice up your sad pathetic life. You wouldnt know a pit bull if it bit your a##e.
Kindest regards Mick

MR murphy I feel it is really sad that a pompus arrogant pr**k like your self is allowed to post. from what I read this chap was looking for information on obtaining a breed of dog that had sparked his interest. this is how alot of us NONexperts learn about a breed (ask questions) if you pompus experts were the only ones allowed to own dogs there would not only be alot of lonely dogless people you would have to be responsible for hundreds nay thousands of animals yourself. I personally was attracted to a breed yet knew nothing about them I had to do some research and hunt for a very long time (5 years to be exact) for a breeder. I would have appreciated a bulletin board then to aid in my search. I thank God I never ran into some one like you when I was searching for info on my breed. To the guest asking about pit bulls go to dog parks, pet supply stores,vets and keep on asking eventually you will run into some one who knows a breeder. in the mean time go to the library or pet store and do your research get as much book knowledge as you can about the breed and again ask owners of pit bulls lots of questions each animal will have its own personality and you may find somthing you just cant live with and its better to know now than later. HAPPY HUNTING hope you find the dog of your dreams
Jamie

Your correct Jamie. They will probably find the APBT is not for them, they probably wont be able to live with it. The reason the APBT got a bad reputation in the first place (in the uk)is through people who knew nothing of the dogs in the first place. I am assuming they are from the UK. I may be wrong. If they are from the UK then the dogs are illegal. If you really want one, they are out there, you should not be on an open forum shouting about it though. There is Bull & terrier forums that would be more suitable. Try talking to anyone in this country who is into APBTs and they will not discuss it with you unless you come recomended to them. So talking to owners in the UK is not really possible. I dont think the APBT is a dog that should be allowed out to anyone who wants one.(said from experience).
Lastly I would like to point out that the poster who posted this query is more than likely the same person who writes in the same style and comes back every 3 weeks or so under a new name and trys to start a heated debate over some kind of bull terrier. This usually results in members of the board arguing over nothing.
God day to you sir Mick

Sir Mick
Looks like it worked! sorry I blew steam at you. I am not a pit fan only due to lack of knowledge about the breed, my fav breed is boxer but I have no ill reguard for the pit and was trying to be helpful to a fellow dog lover. only he can make the decision, hopefully basied on housing available,family/kids, space for fido to run monetary and time commetment and alot of other things im not thinking of at the moment. again sorry for the blasting and hopefully we can talk again I would love to hear more about the pit bulls

to the poster of this string: I sincearly hope mick is wrong if not shame on you if he is dont lose hope keep trying hopefully you can make a contact somewhere that will open a door for you good luck and happy hunting

Jamie

Deary

You say that the RSPCA and the police willnot do anything about your neighbour for breeding Pitbulls as he cares fot them and they are not fighting stock. Well how the hell do the RSPCA and the police now that the pups that are sold on are not going to used in this way talk about iresponsiable :(

Nothing agaisnt the breed I do think it is a shame that they are banned from this country (new stock) when you have people like Mr Murphy who cares for the breed and other peoples bad ways to the breed deprives others of having the joy to own the dog of thier choice. :(

Sir Mick , I hope that you were not having a pop at me for adding info to this board with information about someone i know, i don't own breed or sell pit bulls.
I was brought up with bull terriers and staffs and love all the bull breeds reguardless of there reputation from bad owners.
i have been around bull breeds for 35 years , does not make me an expert i know but it does help when i know what i am looking at.
My father had 6 pitbulls that he rescued many years ago and they were all registered tattooed , chipped and castrated or spayed.
they all had wonderful temprements , couple of them needed a lot of careful handling admitedly as they had to be retrained after bad handling but as my parents were experianced bull breed owners they managed it fine with time and patiance.
So please don't assume that you are the only one in the world with knowledge of what a pitbull looks like.

Sorry totally irrelevant but had to say - 'Sir Mick' is it now ? LOL :D :D :D I took it to mean 'good day to you Sir!' Mick - it did make me laugh though Mr. Murphy:D sorry just lightening this a little, I couldn't resist! I do feel for you at times Mick, I would hate to have to be constantly having to 'stick up' for my breed of choice! with so much misinformation about them too! :( :( Julie:)
ps - you haven't had a knighthood you've been keeping quiet have you? ;)

I was a apbt owner a few years ago, my dog ( now Ive read these posts was an illegal one ) as she was not spayed, however these dogs are available like somebody has already said if you know who to ask, I am not posting to start another debate but simply to defend this breed to a certain extent. My bitch tess she was called sadly has died now was registered and tattooed but when the law changed and this breed had to be castrated or neutered I simply chose not to ( I DID NOT BREED HER ) HOW MUCH ARE THESE DOGS WORTH? I'M SORRY BUT TO THE PERSON WHO SAID £400 I was offered ten times that amount to breed my bitch yes the stud owner was going to PAY ME!
Tess was a real softie because I raised her that way!

Alison

Anyone who pays more than £500 for any APBT or ISBT is off their head. When I was searching for my dogs I was offered APBTs and thought about it. The APBTs are cheaper than ISBTs at the moment although this will change with the latest tough guy fashions. Sorry if I am a bit flippant about people who know about these dogs. Ive had pits that people thought were staffs, Ive had staffs that were thought to be pits, Ive heard English bulls called white pits. I know of police officers/vets/RSPCA workers/etc, in fact people from all walks of life who wouldnt know what any of these dogs were. The ISBT is really confusing for Mr bloggs. (sorry for using your name Joe) Its neither staff/APBT/or EBT. I had a police women ask me what make it was. Its a Rover 2000 stupid it loves to chase cars.
Yes I am very cynical when it comes to people talking about Bull & Terrier breeds. I know there is far more knowledgable people on the subject than me. Its just that most(99%)people dont know.
I was in the pub with my dogs last Sunday and a guy who was petting my dogs for a while asked what they were. I just said they were Bull Terriers. To this the guy said " I knew a fellow once who had a pit bull, the most dangerous beast Ive ever seen. He kept it with his children too. I dont like them, good job they are banned. I couldnt help myself so I replied that my dogs (Which he had been petting for 20 minutes) were pit bull terriers. The guy went to the toilet and left.
I dont know whether he was scared of the dogs or me or just plain embarrassed. I dont really discuss my dogs with strangers now, unless they seem to know the breeds. I was standing in our main st one day when Murphy was a pup and guy approached with two kids and asked if it was okay to pet my dog. I said yes and the guy then said "An ISBT is it" when I said yes he then named acouple of my dogs great grandparents. He said it was obvious. This guy was from Aberdeen. A couple of hundred miles from me. I bought my dog in Macclesfeild 300 miles from me and about 400+ for the aberdeen man. He couldnt have known anything about my pups litter. So there are people who can ID these dogs on sight. The RSPCA and the KC say that as they dont conform to any one size shape or colour they are not recognisable as a breed. How do you ban something you say you cant recognise?.

Morning rant over The RT HON Sir Mick OBE APBT ISBT.

Hi Mick - I hope you don't mind me asking, but how tall is an average ISBT? I have an aquaintance who has a dog that he was told was an ISBT. He asked me if I could get any info on them off the net for him and I found a little in a site called molosser world. Now the dog he has did look quite similair to the pic on this site, but there was nothing to gauge the dogs size. Paddy is the size of a really small staffie (sorry if that's a bit vague). His head shape is not staff shape, infact it leans more towards the EBT in profile. If you could point me to some info that I could print out for him, as he has no internet access, I would be grateful.
Have to add, he isn't really bothered if Paddy is ISBT or not. From what I can gather, He was a bit of a rescue case from some people he knew.
Thanks - Joanne

Hi Mick,
I didn't really want to add to this thread but in the end I have because I want you to know you've got my full support and sympathy because of the cr*p you often endure. Always caused, IMHO, by people's ignorance of dogs in general far less ignorance of specific breeds.

Long may Sir Mick rule.:D :D
Dot

mr murphy i too wish people would leave these breeds to people who have had some knowledge in them.i too love apbt and staffies and most moloss breeds.but some people just should not be given it as pets.that was the reason to the decline of these dogs ie they were given to every1 who wanted the hard image and not the dog.now the same is happening to the isbt,ambull(hines or scott not jdj ambull) you cant even own a leggy staff without it being accused of a pit!
to the person who said a breeder breeds the pits and is left alone because he looks after them well-i highly dought it.i dought even more that these dogs are being sold at £4000 and also i dought that they would be pits maybe a cross.the rspca take any dog that looks remotely pit like not just pits to court!
some people have even thought my 3/4ambull cross 1/4neo is a pit!

sorry £2000 not £4000
i think sum1 was asking about isbt.i seriously mean this but if you dont know the appearance of one why buy one ?

Hi Pynadath - It was me who was asking (very genuinely) About the ISBT. Not because I want one but because someone I know has rescued a dog and was told that this is what it was. This dog was kept in a run with a much larger dog. The larger dog used to run up and down the run pinning this poor dog against the sides. The result was similair to cheese on a grater. My friend asked if he could take the dog so It would not have to endure this. He would have taken it whatever sort of dog it was. He was told by these people it is an ISBT, so because he now has the dog, he was interested to know if it was. He has had the dog a while now and has done wonders with it. It plays regularly with my friends and my dogs and he is a fabulous little character.
I am not trying to wind anyone up, just wanted some good information and Mick seemed to be the person to ask! Sorry if my lack of knowledge offends you, but my dogs are Lurchers and Boxers. The info I am looking for is for my friend, who has no access to the internet
Joanne

Baldrick e mail me and I will e mail sites etc back to you. Regards Mick

sorry baldrick i got confused with the pitbull topic and yours.
i have heard from many dog men that the isbt has lurcher in it.in ireland they wanted game dogs especially those capable of catching hare etc so they used other breed infused with the mainly stafford blood which lead to the isbt having a longer muzzle and they are taller.i they are around 17 to 21 inches tall with a normal kc staff being average 15 inches.

sorry baldrick i got confused with the pitbull topic and yours.
i have heard from many dog men that the isbt has lurcher and grey hound in it.in ireland they wanted game dogs especially those capable of catching hare etc so they used other breed infused with the mainly stafford blood which lead to the isbt having a longer muzzle and they are taller.i they are around 17 to 21 inches tall with a normal kc staff being average 15 inches.

Hi Pynadath - Looks like Paddy is not an ISBT then as he is very small. I wish I had a pic of him that I could post as he is the strangest looking little dog I have seen. No worries about confusing the posts :0)
Joanne

irish staffords (if you want to call them that, personally i do not like the term as they are bred from english kc show stock of the 60's and 70's).come in all shapes and sizes as until recently they were not bred for conformation but for work (mainly in testas moir badger trials in eire).i have known them as small as 20lbs and as large as 60lbs although most would be between 30 and 45.size also is varied as they are NOT a pure breed but have been infused with english bull terrier blood through the years.
by the way if you do not own a pitbull born prior to the dda then it is illegal and there is no license you can purchase to say different.they are about if you know where to look but for a top bred dog (not from backyard peddlers) £500 will not get you what you are looking for from good stock expect to pay at least double that.personally when i had them i never needed to pay for a dog as they were always gifts as with the people i dealt with good ownership was a must and money was never a consideration.if more people had this attitude maybe the dogs would still be legal and we would never have seen the horror stories on the news that led to the dangerous dogs act.

Have to agree with Cooper as he is absolutely correct when he says that they come in all sizes and shapes, but I would question the EBT part a bit as it was only a few that were actually crossed with EBT blood.

This is by no means taking a swing at anybody, but it is a myth that EBT's were used extensively in any part of a breeding program and by claiming that the "Irish" Staffords is not a pure breed would be inaccurate as it is to generalize all the dogs that falls under the term "Irish" Staffords. Unless of course one can back up this statement with names of the EBT's, names of what bitches the EBT was mated with, and show extensive pedigrees, which shows how ALL "Irish" Staffords are blood relatives of the alledged EBT's.

I am however a bit puzzled that people seems to be so stuck on the term "Irish" Staffords though.
The only reason to why these dogs were refered to as "Irish" staffords is because when Pied Piper and P. W. imported their stock from Ireland they used the word "Irish" to distinguish them from the stock that never left the UK. Pied Piper were among the first to import stock from Delaney's Red Strain aka "Dublin Red Strain" and P.W. imported stock from the Faranee/Evergreen Strain, which was the foundation of what has become known in the UK as the "Flynn" Strain.

It's a bit amusing to sit back and read all the statements made by some people regarding "Irish" Staffords.
Myths and fairy tales thrive on message boards like this and there will always be armchair experts and knowitall's recycling old myths.

Win or Lose
We'll have some booze

The Drifter

oops i should have explained my statement a little better.nowadays the MAJORITY of "irish staffords" seem to be bred down from R.B's psycho dog or F Boys stormer which were for sure crossed dogs to some degree, i have photos of stormers dam and she looks to be pure EBT.the owner of psycho told me he had EBT blood himself (1/16 i think),this is the reason i can not accept these strains as a pure breed.now the red dogs which MD brought i believe are pure stafford as are the evergreen/faranee dogs that pete brought,the latter tending to be the smaller in general of the popular lines,the latter 2 strains however are getting increasingly rare but they are staffordshire bull terriers nothing else in my book,the authorities seem to believe dogs called irish staffords are apbt's which is totally false and i can see a ban heading their way.i just wish people would drop the word irish from the name cos there is no such breed.if you look back in the pedigrees of these dogs you will see dogs like lathams topcroft toreador ,boylans brinstock glenagow and millers rellim ferryvale victor which were all show champions in ENGLAND during the 1960's and this is the point i was trying to get across.hope this explains my comments better.happy xmas..peace

At last, someone did their home work.

R.B's Ch Psycho was indeed a 1/16th EBT as both Rowdy and Kilwickie lad were straight crosses. The result of the Rowdy x Kilwickie Lad mating resulted in the late Tom Haughey's North Star, which you can find in Ch Psycho's 5th generation and in a litter brother called "Blunder's Lad" that went to Gerry McIntyre the brother of Jerome who once owned the Irish Black Jack dog that M.D brought over.
Since Psycho was a 1/16th, by mating him to stafford bitches it would dilute the small amount of EBT blood in that line and it raises the question : When can a breed be considered to be "pure bred" ?.

Have in mind that men like Bill Boylan and other old timers has admitted in the later years that they lied about the pedigrees of the dogs as the Kennel Club demanded that they had a written ped so they could be admitted into the KC, and the fact that virtually no written pedigree existed prior of the breed being recognized into the KC. Here is an example:

Vic Crew's dog "Burrage Mefisto" was out of Brinstock Attraction, Sired by Brigand's Gunner. Gunners sire and Dam were Tackle x Ch.lady Eve and Attraction's Sire was Game Laddie Sired by Game Lad, the ped beyond this point was listed as Billston Bill x Sedgley Queen and the remaining sections were blank. Now the interesting part, in the beginning of the 80's, Mr Boylan claimed in a interview that it was common practise that local towns and districts would be linked up with imaginary names of dogs,like Billston Bill, Darlaston Biddy and Sedgely Queen, he also claimed that the pedigree of Game Lad was made up in precisely that manner and was registered in the KC with that faked ped.

Says a bit about any credibility of pedigrees of the early dogs and these dogs could have had just as much EBT blood in them as R.B's Ch Psycho, which bring us back to the question, when can a breed be considered to be pure bred?

The definition of Purebred is by websters as following:

"Of or belonging to a recognized strain established by breeding individuals of unmixed lineage over many generations."

How many generations would it take to be considered a "Pure" breed?

Now I'm sure that unless new infusion of EBT blood is made the Northford/ Psycho strain would fall in under this definition, but I'm sure that some would oppose my view on this lol.

Stevie B's Ch Stormer was however never successfully mated with any Staffords and cannot be said to ever have formed a strain. The only successful mating was with an APBT from Reid's Skipper called "Tess", which produced only 4 pups. Shaunyboyz has always claimed that their "Bullit" were a son of Stormer and a Stafford called Kimba, but when you ask the previous owners of the Stormer dog they will tell you that no Stafford was ever successfully mated with this dog.

If you consider the "Flynn" Strain as a pure breed, what makes it any different than the Psycho dogs?
The Lynchauhaun dog that F. Gordon had was from dubious background and had no written pedigree at all as he was stolen in the UK by a sailor and sold to F. Gordon.

I'll get off my soap box now lol, but it is nice to see someone with some knowledge regarding these so called "Irish" Staffords on this board.

May you have a Merry X mas and a prosperous Happy New Year Cooper

Win or Lose
We'll have some booze

The Drifter

i had totally forgotten the story on LYNCHAUHAUN so again who knows, seamus m spoke very highly of him though (another great from a dubious past).the craic with STORMER and never mating a stafford bitch is well known but alas many people have bought dogs with STORMER x KIMBA in their pedigrees so again who knows what on earth these dogs really are.many newcomers bought these dogs for good money, some maybe after reading the untruths in the fellas book.(was the tess bitch the same one who was dam to BD's shelly?)
i have also heard it said that TL sent any red dog found in the pound over when the rush for these dogs was on so many pedigrees here are questionable also, however i do not know if this is just from jealous fanciers or whether it is based in fact.you see these dogs create so much controversy.
i have seen so called psycho dogs which definately had apbt blood and could be seen by stevie wonder yet the owners believed them hung papers 100%.
again i think that most "irish staffords" for the most part are mainly stafford bred and you are right the EBT blood is way back enough to have very little if any influence but so much paper hanging seems to have centred around these dogs that you really would need to know and trust breeders fully to get something bred exactly as the papers say.i really think the owners of these dogs should be careful as what they are trying to produce as we all know the authorities are just waiting for a chance to bang another breed into the dda.for all this we all know the old cliche "good dogs are where you find them".right now i am going for some booze.merry christmas..peace

Bruce Cattanagh a geneticist and Boxer breeder has done Corgi to Boxer crosses to get the tailess gene. I think the Kennel Club has accepted the fifth generation on the breed register 1/32nd I think (might be 4th gen. but pretty dure it is fifth).

well if its 5 generations of pure breeding i guess todays "irish staffords" in the main can be classed as purebred staffords.you learn something everyday.thanks brainless..merry christmas..peace
ps did he dig a hole or put the corgi on a coffee table.

Hi,

I run a bull breed rescue centre in the west of Ireland, most of the APBT here were purchased in GB. Here, a few people breed them and sell them off as AmStaffs. There is a sucker born every minute, or so they say :(.

Taylor