After a long search and numerous disappointments i have finally found a fantastic litter due.I am hoping to show this pup which is why my search has taken so long.This is the bitchs 3rd and final litter but there are already 5 people waiting( 3 for show quality),and in  the bitchs last 2 litters there were 6 puppies.This time she used a different sire and at 6 weeks the breeder says she is so much bigger than normal.My question is,would a different sire make a difference in the litter size?Obviously a bigger litter gives me that little bit more of a chance of finding the pup i have waited so long for although there is always the chance that there wont be any that are suitable.The breeder is quite sure she is carrying more this time.What are your thoughts on this subject?Thanks

It is the bitch who determines the size of the litter not the dog.  The dog is responsible for the sex of the puppies.  Lots of factors come into play such as how fertile the dogs is and when in her season a bitch is mated.  Fingers crossed things go well for you.

I agree, different sire isn't relevant.  And, to be brutally honest, I am not honestly sure that being so much bigger always means more puppies.  Bitches can fox us at times, as I've had bitches that looked huge, but were just carrying that much more fluid.

And, having had litters previously, bitches often look bigger anyway.

I have a breed with average size litters of around 6, my range has been from 4 - 9 born and from 3 - 9 reared.

If you were on my waiting list for a hoped for show prospect I would nto be having more than two people for each sex.  the dogs will b e competing against each other.  If you get two very close in quality but a bit different from each other then they will tend to swap places based on judges priorities or simply on variation on the day.

If your after a show potential pup you really do need to get higher up on the waiting list, no lower than second choice of the sex your after.

Saying that I have had litters where I would happily have shown more than two of a sex, and in others the wrong sex had the quality and the sex wanted for show has been just average.

If your intention is to breed a line of your own, and it is a breed where it is very hard to get a top quality pup for show, then getting third pick in an outstanding litter will give you a better foundation for you to breed something better, than pick pup in a litter of lesser quality.

But if your after a winner from the get go you will have to be more patient and convince a breeder you will do their choice pups justice.  Often breeders are disappointed when entrusting a promising pup to a newcomer as they often end up not showing, or not lasting the course while learning (and obviously getting lower places until their skills improve).

Thanks,feeling very excited but nervous too.The breeder told me that she only had one tie this time but with the last 2 litters she had 2 but is far bigger this time!

> as I've had bitches that looked huge, but were just carrying that much more fluid.
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Ditto this.  My Jozi was pretty large for her first litter and had 4 live one stillborn pup.  she was smaller next time with 7.

Her daughter hardly looked pregnant with her first litter, to a casual observer not at all right until the last few days.  She whelped 8 puppies, though we lost one.  She had her last litter in May and was quite big with 5 pups, but she was 6 1/2.

What you have to remember you can have a big litter with nothing in it worth shouting home about, a small litter (there were just two pups in a litter in my breed with both dog and bitch ending up top winners and producers), or anything in between.

its all a lottery.

Thanks so much for your reples.I am just looking to show at the moment not breed and i do not mind what sex i get.I am wishing i had heard about this litter sooner but you never know,am keeping everything crossed.

i know it is the bitch that releases X amount of eggs to determin the size of the litter but i think the dog can make a difference too.  some dogs sperm count can be very low and of poor quality and may struggle to fertalize all the eggs the bitch releases,  a dog with very healthy, high sperm count could be capable of fertalizing them all, thus resulting in a bigger litter.  IMO

but that scenario is less likely as even with a low sperm count there are a lot more sperm than eggs, and then the number of fertilised eggs is reduced at implantation time.  If they don't find a good place to attach, placentas don't form well, etc etc then the litter will be reduced.

If it was down mainly to sperm there wouldn't be such a wide variation in litter size between different breeds, which is generally down to what the bitch can accommodate based on her body size.

Yes smaller breeds have smaller puppies, but proportionately toy size pups are actually quite large compared to the adult size of the bitch.

> I am just looking to show at the moment

Then I would try to get higher up on someone else's waiting list.

Write to the breeders of the stock you admire most and ask what plans they have, it is at the planning stage that pick pups are most likely to be allocated.

> which is generally down to what the bitch can accommodate based on her body size.
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Spot on! 

Another question and probably a stupid one but if a bitch has constant litters of 6 well not constant but past 2 is it likely to be the same?The breeder said the bitchs sister had 3 litters all 6 too or has anyone known a bitch to have 2 litters the same size then go on to have larger.The average litter size in this breed 5-7.It is looking likely that i will have to wait and i have already started looking,the breeder is helping me just incase which is great but this particular bitch has produced several brilliant dogs that are doing amazingly well in the show ring so i live in hope!!

If the breeder can help you and put you in touch and make recommendations then this may get you higher up the list on another litter.

My Lexi gave birth to 8 pups at age 3 1/4 (we lost 1), had 7 at age 4 3/4, and then 5 at just over 6 1/2.

Her mother had 5 (1 stillborn) at age 3 3/4, 7 at age 5 1/2, and 7 at age 7.

The second ones mother had 9 at just 2 years of age, carried 8 but only reared 4 at age 5 1/4, and 4 at age 6 1/2 years.