i read about the poor red deer shot for his antlers that was said to be the biggest animal in britain
why do these sick people get a kick out of killing a majestic and beautiful animal like this? deers shed their antlers every year so they could have found them on the ground later in the year.
do taxidermists still stuff their heads?
i cant understand it

There is no answer to why this was done....barbaric :(

Such a shame

How long is the life expectancy of the red deer?????
As this one was 12 years old. I cant remember the amount of deer culled every year in britain, but why is the oold man any different to the others culled????
They take the old horses off exmoor and cull the old ones and rehome the younger ones. They dont leave them to die a slow death.
Lea :)

Poor old boy,shot for his antlers.The Emperor was healthy and shot because of sport.

RIP Big Boy.

Sheila

Only after he was written up in the paper....the hunter might never have know about him if not for that article....

I had never heard about him until today!!!!!
I must admit to going, 'oh poor boy' then I realised, the only reason I thought that was because of the way he was bigged up!!!!!!! He was the same as the little doe 20 miles away from me that is culled to stop the deer over taking the whole ecosystem.
Natural selection. Humans have taken over the world, they have to live together,changing the eco system and that involves culling.
Contentious issue but the facts of life.
Lea.

culling so they dont upset the 'eco-system' i can understand but killing an animal for a 'trophy' and therefore for FUN is sick

But were they involved in the cull????? Noone has said any different?????
Yes there are taxodermists still. but also was the bug red ill, or was he coming to the end of his life, of was he mating tooo many Does and reducing the gene pool????????? The one thing dog breeders dontg want for alot of good reasons.
Lea

I noticed on the news this evening they commented that although this Stag was dead hopefully his genes had been passed on! Just shows a real lack of understanding.
Jeff.

> The one thing dog breeders dontg want for alot of good reasons.

A little different out in the wild, stags have to fight for the right to mate. Therefore only the fittest and the healthy get to pass on their genes.

>But were they involved in the cull?????
>but also was the bug red ill,

It appears he was shot for a trophy, not in a cull -

although the shooting was legal, deer lovers were becoming increasingly worried about the number of rich sportspeople coming to Exmoor to shoot its finest stags as trophies.
some older stags needed to be culled after a certain age, but the Emperor had been in good health. "Yes the Emperor was starting to get past his best, but he was definitely not at that stage yet

quotes taken from here

Culling is done as a management strategy to benefit the deer population itself or the environment- trophy hunting is done for the personal pleasure of the hunter. :(

apparently he hadnt passed on his genes this year as the rut was only just starting when they shot him, its barbaric

Whatever the rights or wrongs of this, I'm sure the stag had passed on his genes in previous ruts.

I wouldn't mind if he had been shot as part of a cull, it has to happen no matter how distasteful I find it , but this doesn't appear to be the case here. He was shot as a trophy which is just as bad as those who used to go shooting big game in Africa and India - beyond the pale IMHO

I've seen this on several forums, including a hunting/shooting forum.  Not only is he not proven to be the largest stag in Britain, he was within the viable age range for culling, and from what I've read, was shot as part of a cull to maintain healthy and viable numbers, as well as genetic diversity, although the press seems to have sensationalised it somewhat.  This stag has been very successful over a number of years, and if it hadn't been this year, it would have been next year, although because of the publicity and reputation, he was also more likely to be the target of poachers or worse. 

If someone wants to pay to have his head stuff and waste a large amount of money, that's up to them; but many stags of this age, some younger, some older, are culled either because they have health problems, dangerous antlers (switch tops which are more likely to cause injury to other deer), or just because they are of a viable age to remove from the population. 

I wouldn't mind if he had been shot as part of a cull, it has to happen no matter how distasteful I find it , but this doesn't appear to be the case here. He was shot as a trophy which is just as bad as those who used to go shooting big game in Africa and India - beyond the pale IMHO

im afraid trophy shooting STILL goes on in africa and india not to mention all the terrible things man does such as chinese medicine such as gall from poor bears (see WWF site)

likely to cause injury to other deer), or just because they are of a viable age to remove from the population.

who are you to say we should 'remove' deer from the population? are you god??

Culling is necessary with the population of some animals to maintain a healthy and viable population.  With red deer, the stags that are culled are those that are either injured and/or ill, are of a viable age (ie have had a chance to make their contribution to the gene pool over a number of years) and those that are a danger to other animals, such as switch tops, where the antlers can cause horrific injury.  By removing these animals from the population, healthy young animals are left in place, and it will give the chance for younger stags to come through and hopefully maintain genetic diversity.  If it wasn't in the interests of maintaining a healthy population of deer, the land owners wouldn't cull, and allow paying guests to shoot, because they wouldn't then have enough animals year on year for this type of income to be maintained. 

As for trophy hunting in Africa, it's been going on for many years, and done in the right way, the income is put back in to maintaining the parks, and to hopefully help preserve some of the more endangered species.  If someone wants to pay a huge sum of money to shoot an animal that isn't endangered, and by doing so contributes towards the cost of preserving a more endangered species, that's up to them and I haven't got a problem with it.  I don't particularly want the stuffed head of anything on my wall, nor would I pay to shoot one, if I could shoot, but the fact is, this type of trophy hunting brings in much needed revenue; some will find that distasteful, but I'd rather the money was brought in by using necessary culling, than no money brought in.  Unfortunately, in some instances it is open to abuse, but then what system isn't. 

I've got more of a problem with the local beliefs in black magic (muti) that mean species like the aardvark are persecuted and becoming rarer, than someone going over and paying a large sum of money to shoot something like a kudu bull, which is hardly rare, and where the carcass can be used. 

sleepinglion, some people are paying huge sums of money to shoot endangeared and protected speices such as rhino, elephant and tiger
how are these good for their protection?

i wish yahoo would stop putting on such upsetting things. i just saw the bit about a live crab vending machine in china. they are chilled so they are sedated and then you put your money in and buy one and when the box is opened they are alive. i presume they take them home and boil them to eat them and dont eat them raw? you wouldnt get away with that in britain, you would surely have the rspca saying its cruel as indeed it is. its just a crab i know but its still a living creature. my mind boggles

That is in essence what is done with Lobsters apart from we have fishmongers rather than vending machines. Delicious fresh sea food.

tina_s, I think you'll find I said that I agreed with the shooting of non-endangered species, and if people are willing to pay to shoot something like a kudu, very much non-endangered, and the money raised from that goes to the conservation of more endangered species, that is good management, surely?  Particularly where you need to cull with a species that is overpopulated within an area.  Some areas are over populated with elephants, and they have to be culled, or they are a detriment to themselves and other species, it's not a nice thought, but I'd rather they survive in viable numbers, than destroy their own habitat.

There are very few truly wild places left in this world, where it is well managed, there are healthy and sustainable populations of the native wild species.  Unfortunately, as humans, we've upset the balance of many of the wild populations with the introduction of other species.  The red deer that populate Exmoor, where Emperor was shot, are probably not truly red deer any more, having mixed and bred with introduced deer species from abroad. 

Some of the game parks where the type of trophy hunting you mention goes on, actually breed and raise their own animals for shooting, which, although wrong, at least they're not shooting wild animals, or those from other parks or conservation areas.  But I emphasise, I really don't agree with that type of shooting, what I pointed at in my post, were the places that make use of necessary culls, where animals that are not endangered need to be controlled, and people are willing to pay to shoot a non-endangered animal. 

Very well put SleepingLion.

Ditto.

>who are you to say we should 'remove' deer from the population? are you god??

Since we removed all their other natural predators from the country yes, we have to be God.

It seems from what has been reported that this wasn't a cull of deer but rather a 'trophy hunter'.  There were older stags in the herd which have remained untouched.  Unfortunately giving publicity to these animals creates some sort of rivalry amongst hunters who need to get to the animal first, it was the same with a white stag pictured in rural Perthshire.

I thought the white stag was a reindeer, and was poached illegally?  Can't remember the details so may be wrong and my memory is appalling.

The people who control deer numbers on Exmoor will have a cull strategy in place, this stag fits within the cull strategy of any management I know of, simply from his age; whether or not the people who shot him paid extra. You could say that any person who pays to shoot a stag is a trophy hunter, after all, they pay for the privilege. But the alternative is, the deerstalker goes out and shoots all the deer themselves, thereby losing a vast source of income, which is surely poor business and does nothing to help the estate/land owner in the maintenance of their land and animals?

In any case, it appears it may well have been a ruse, in which case this particular animal really will be at risk from poaching and illegal hunting after all the hype and publicity :(

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1324297/Exmoor-Emperor-stag-mystery-deepens-locals-claim-sighting-beast-village.html

Not wishing to comment on the whys and wherefores of the shooting of the stag, but reading around the countryside forums it seems most people think it was done for the welfare of the animal.

I find that ironic when you consider that a conservative figure of 37 million pheasants  plus a good few million partridge are released each year to be shot, that number released in to the country side must have a devastating impact on native species, local studies show that lizards, small snakes and slow worm numbers are much lower where pheasants are released, presumably, insects and other food sources are also lower, not helping natives species welfare much.

> I thought the white stag was a reindeer, and was poached illegally?  Can't remember the details so may be wrong and my memory is appalling.
>
>

The one I know of was featured by the local paper 'The Courier' when alive and it was definitely a white stag.   The only Reindeer are further up in the Wildlife park at Aviemore!

> live crab vending machine in china

I have stopped shopping in Tesco's as they supply live turtles in their stores in China (Yes, Tesco is in China too) :(

I seen how they killed a turtle in a restaurant in Thailand not nice. A country I would never return to.

yaaaaawn.......tina s.....you need to learn about what you are talking before you post!!!! Game hunting in africa is perfectly legal. They are not poaching protected specie, they are taking out animals that would be removed by wardens etc....by allowing people from overseas to pay for the priveledge allows a lot of money into the local economy. sleeping lion is absolutely spot on with what he/she says....well done, nice to see commons sense on here for a change, its a rare comoditiy!
As someone who culls deer myself, on our farm and neighbouring farms, im not entering into the emperor conversation as most of whats reported is so fictional its unbelievable!!!

> well done, nice to see commons sense on here for a change, its a rare comoditiy!
>

Who are you?? no need for them kind of comments.

Here here Dukedog.

The snide comments have begun again :(

Well, there's no need really.

>Who are you??

Sam is someone who knows what she's talking about, and has her feet firmly on the ground.

Here here jeangenie and Sam. Unfortunately this board gets too fluffy at times! we all love animals and the countryside but what people don't realise is that the countryside has to be managed by someone.

Absolutely !

There's fluffy and there's insults, I know which I prefer.

Where is there an insult?

yaaaaawn.......tina s
nice to see commons sense on here for a change, its a rare comoditiy!
im sure no one (other than the badly informed and bigotted g rets) was suggesting anyone runs over badgers on purpose.

It's often said that the term 'common sense' is a misnomer, because it's not often you come across it! ;-)

actually gamehunting for elephants/rhino /tigers etc is illegal. thats why i give to WWF to pay people to protect these animals. i know in the long run man will make them extinct anyway but i feel i have to do something.
you may be a hunter yourself and therefore have a different brain to me. i couldnt kill an animal with a gun whether it be cold blood or becuse it were old or infirm but then i am a nurse and have some compassion in my soul ( i hope)

>actually gamehunting for elephants/rhino /tigers etc is illegal.

Culling, however, isn't. People are allowed to pay to assist in a legal cull.

>i couldnt kill an animal with a gun whether it be cold blood or becuse it were old or infirm

That's terrible. It's usually the quickest, most humane way to release a wild animal from its suffering, sparing it the terror of close proximity to a human.

(other than the badly informed and bigotted g rets)

Sian talk about pot kettle ! That I find an insult and quite offensive to be honest.

It is shame you feel the need to use such language when describing people on this thread who just happen to have a different opinion than yourself.

yaaaaawn.......tina s
nice to see commons sense on here for a change, its a rare comoditiy!
im sure no one (other than the badly informed and bigotted g rets) was suggesting anyone runs over badgers on purpose.

All of this is sams wording not mine.
This is what Sam said to g rets on the Badger thread.

Let's leave it hey, I prefer keeping things light. :)

Oh ok take that back then !

Just had a look back at articles referring to it, and it was a white Roe Deer stag, and was shot perfectly legally from the looks of things.  The only difference being that it was white, rather than normal coloured, and yet again, given a name, and someone paid more to shoot it than a normal coloured deer, more fool them.  It's akin to paying more for an unusal or rare coloured dog, that, actually, is just a dog, and is the same as any other in it's breed except for a different coat colour.

I like that people think I've got common sense, it's a rare occurrence, let's hope no-one decides I'm worth shooting!! 

PS for anyone wondering, I'm female, and my name's Joanne ;)

I have read this post with great interest as someone who used to be a vegetarian to someone who enjoys working gundogs throughout the game season so I believe I can see where both parties are coming from.

From my experience when meeting people who enjoy country side sports they tend to know their hobby inside out, they know how the countyside works and are quite happy to teach others they enjoyment the countryside has to offer. But the people who are against it very often (although not always) know nothing about what they are protesting. When I meet new people and they ask me my hobbies and I tell them I go shooting it is often met with disgust, I simply ask these people if they are vegan?? I have not had one person say they are, they all eat meat. I ask them why it is that they are not happy to eat a pheasant that has been shot? They answer "because its cruel" so I simply reply "Oh I see, so a pheasant that is reared, released to be truely free range and able to exercise its right to be a wild bird and actually has a high chance of never being shot, is cruel BUT you are quite happy to eat a chicken out of asda that has been intensivly reared and made to grow so quickly that its legs can't bear its weight and collapses under it weight and made to lay in its own faeces and never see's the light of day is in no way cruel what so ever??

Another one I like to give the people against shooting and country sports to think about is milk. How many of you people who are so distressed about the fact that a wild deer that was cleanly shot( and even if the shooter took the head for a trophy I can asure you that good venison would not go to waste) how many of you drink milk??? So you are against killing a deer but its ok for millions of calfs to be born every year and die at a few daysold so you can have your milk and milk products. Cows don't produce milk for the fun of it.

So food for thought to you anti's, unless you already a vegan and practice what you are preaching I suggest you think about what part you are actually playing in animal cruelty.

I don't eat meat nor fish and would hope I have never bin cruel to animals. Though I can understand the need to shoot animals that are otherwise poorly in the wild, put them out of their misery.