Hi All

i expect you remember me with Robbie who suffers from anal gland problems and had the benign tumour removed on his back a while ago, well everything was going along nicely i changed his diet from wafcol 11 weeks ago over to BARF i am using the natural instinct food recommended by my homeopathic vet we are feeding the chicken variety he has been fine since switching over pooh's firmer glands not being emptied quite as much as they were and skin has been fine, but since last weekend he has started the itch cycle back up again he is licking his feet and yesterday i noticed he has got a patch on his back leg that is scabby and his skin is dry in that area it doesn't look like he has bitten it just that the area is spotty and scaley and red! He did have malassezia last winter that we cleared up but whether this is returning again with the damp weather i just don't know he hasn't licked his feet for 3 months now since we saw the dermatologist and he gave him ab's and said to wash his feed in diluted hibiscrub, i know the damp weather can start this back off but his skin has  been so good i am very disappointed.
When we last saw the homeopathic vet he said the change of food from wafcol over to barf was the way forward as he was so much better and that he suggested carrying on as we were still give him piriton each day and wash his feet once per week in hibiscrub and was happy with him.
I always understood that allergies were summer related but robbie seems to get worse with foot licking in autumn months which seems strange, i was wondering whether it could be an allergy to the food but surely it would have shown up before 10 weeks wouldn't it?
Think he is gonna have to go to the vets again to get something for these scabs but he cannot live on ab's long term as i know these are not good for his system.
Anybody got any ideas as to why he may have suddenly started up again, as nothing has changed over past few weeks.

One of mine has sensitivities and I find that she tends to have more trouble with her feet when she's been out walking on wet ground. I find it really makes a difference if I give her feet a really, really thorough dry when she comes back inside again. Might be worth a try?

I am a human who suffers sever intolerances to many natural substances and tbh this sounds very similar to my symptoms when there's too much Sulphite or Nitrite/nitrates in the rain/water.  I have to cook and drink bottled water or suffer not just skin reactions but gastric problems, increased heartrate and raised blood pressure, I have seriously itchy area's on my hands at the min that I scratch in my sleep so much that they bleed.  They are red, itchy, scabby and previously been diagnosed as Psoraisis AND Eczema by 2 different dermatologists, worst on my scalp some days it feels like I've got an army of living 'things' running around up there!

I suffer with additive intolerances and here's the interesting part, I can't eat any processed meats or supermarket meats as they spray them with additives to keep them red looking and increase shelf life, along with the sulphites found in things like corned beef, thin sliced meats etc.  Even veg can cause me problems the only fruit I can eat is banana twice a wk max, veg is garden peas, brocoli and cauliflower, even potato skins cause me to react, most veg even when peeled are a no go due to natural histamines in the skin that permates into the flesh.

It might be worth trying bottled water and fresh organic meats without veg, any processed meats is susceptable to sulphities via water used, if he improves then slowly add new food stuffs and see what happens.  Keep a diary as it can take up to 7 days for an intolerance reaction or even allergic reaction to manifest but generally an hr to 48 is more usual.

Poor you schip , I know I am hijacking the thread but you daughter also has been very ill with intolerances if I remember how is she now?

I have just given him  a bath in malaseb to see if that calms him down and helps the scabs, there doesn't seem to be a break in the skin just spotty and the skin is scaly around that area, he isn't scratching it and i haven't seen him biting it either so not sure if he even knows its there bless him! Just that after the way he got last winter with the malassezia infection i don't want him going down that route again by me leaving the scabs to just spread around him, i have noticed though that the damp weather makes him start to lick him feet but even hibiscrubing them every day if they get wet still doesn't stop him licking them overnight when he is left on his own, just don't know what else i can do to help poor robbie

Does Robbie's breeder have any advice?  Do his ancestors/siblings have any problems?  Westies with sensitivites tend to be inherited but are usually helped with raw or Wafcol diet. :(

I think the house dust mite season starts about now.  There are different allergens which are stronger at different times of the year.

>I always understood that allergies were summer related but robbie seems to get worse with foot licking in autumn months which seems strange,

Different allergens affect sensitive people and dogs at different times of year.  It may be worth researching to see what the autumn ones are - could be spores?   It's been a very warm Autumn so far in our area so my dogs allergy season has lasted longer this year.  They are haymaking here too

Have you ever had a blood test to see exactly what Robbie is allergic to?  The York test is expensive but very useful to be able to identify the correct allergens.  You'll get a much clearer picture of the problem and be better able to cope.  You are doing the right things with raw feeding, hibiscrub, piiton etc but at certain times of year you may just need a little extra help.

In the meantime use Fuciderm (from vet) on angry scabby areas, or Dermacton for dry patches.

Hi

Robbie had the allergy testing done last year and nothing showed up accept a very low allergy to duck which he never eats anyway, the outdoor indoor allergens all came back clear which is weird as my last westie with allergies had loads of them.
Robbie ended up with malassezia last winter where his skin got so bad so thats why i want to get on top of it this year, this patch doesn't seem to be bothering him at the moment just that it looks sore and that it is scabby, i am putting some sudocrem on it i started doing this yesterday as somebody else advised trying it.
I have contacted the  breeder and she said she has had puppy pyoderma in the past but no other skin problems but the vet said that this could be linked as pyoderma is a skin condition in itself.
The raw diet is suiting him as his motion is a lot firmer but just wish i could get the other problems sorted as his glands are still blocking every 10 days even though his motion is better than it was, the vet said just to keep them emptied as removal isn't always a success as there is a risk of incontinence they hope that in time the glands will lengthen out but if things don't improve we may have to rethink, i feel at the moment after having the tumour removed not long ago i would rather leave him and see if things improve.
I have phoned natural instinct the food company and they said if it had been a food allergy it would have shown up long before now the patch on his back leg so it doesn't sound like it has been caused by this

I know somebody else mentioned house dust mites, but I wonder if it could be harvest mites which would fit in with this time of year?

Yes FF she is still seriously ill so much so they're now looking at Anti rejection drugs in a bid to either turn off or dampen down her immune system.  She hasn't been out of Anaphylasis since 1st Jan,  on the plus side she's not needed an ambulance for 10 wks now as she's 'learning' what most of her allergies are.

The problem with the tests is they're not reliable, daughter has to carry 3 epipens, take 4 different antihistamines a day to stop her going into full Anaphylactic shock reaction, yet ALL her bloods and prick tests etc have come back negative for any allergic reaction.  I am the same, we are both having to learn what we react to rather than have a test tell us what to avoid. She now has to have forthnightly bloods to check her liver, kidney, brain and heart functions because of the excessive levels of drugs she has to take, more than once we've had drug induced liver damage and seizures trying to control this nightmare.

An allergy can develop at any time, a reaction can take a wk to manifest itself making it very difficult to trace the culprit. My daughter and I both started the yr as non allergic people, she within 1 day became one of the most allergic people her immunologist works with, I took 2 mths to hit the same level with different substances.  Its a myth to believe allergies develop and maintain a set level, they can and do happen overnight AND progress the more the body is exposed to an allergen.  Daughter was warned within 10 yrs she'd be on multiple epipens and antihistamines in reality it took 6 days to hit that level from 1 junior epipen to 3 XL Epipens, same with the drugs.

Our government Dr's for benefits claim her situation has no bearing on her life ergo she's not entitled to benefits and even when she was on them she had to pay for her prescriptions which are 6 items every 2 wks, never mind the bottled water, dairy free foods, organic meat and veg along with unbleached floured bread, sugars yada yada yada - sorry hijacked and ranted opps.

Hi Schip life can be so unfair I hadnt realised the allergie problem had come so quickly almost bythe sound of it form nothing to the severity it is. Yes our benefit system is screwy and so many deserving people are not getting help when others who shouldnt be are. Do hope some relief is found for the two of you soonx

Is there anyway at all that he is coming in contact with anything.  Both this dog and the last seems to have the extremes of everything and even the worst of luck it just seems very strange.  ( dont take this the wrong way)  Is there anything around that your dogs are coming into contact with , garden?  walking places?

This is what i have asked our vet as i cannot believe i have now had 2 westies with the same problems, all the vet keeps saying is the only mistake i have made is having another westie which i won't believe as not every westie on this planet has got skin problems.
He has got a staph infection this time and has been prescribed ceporex ab's for 1 month and baths in malaseb, the only thing is this dog had pyoderma as a puppy and so did his 2 litters sisters so not sure if this could be connected as i am not that experienced with dogs but robbie also suffers from recurring blocked anal glands that my last dog never had, they checked his ears and they are clear no sign of infection there which is good.
There has been some family stress this year so not sure whether this could affect him, do dogs get affected by stress the vet has said NO way would he pick up on it but i am not so sure
The garden is slabbed over and when he is out the vets have said to keep him off grass so he is mainly road walked if that is of any help to you, all the allergy tests came back as clear no outdoor or indoor allergies showed up and food all he was slightly allergic to was duck which he never eats anyway
He  is fed on a barf diet from natural instinct and his pooh's have firmed up as on wafcol he was very soft, but we are still having probs with anal glands

I have a similar problem with my 6 year old Boxer.  He developed "wet eczema" following a family holiday to the west coast of Scotland in August and since I have be unable to get him off the steroids. The scabs develop around his neck and spread to the shoulders and hips.  Bathing in malaseb twice a week appears to dampen it down also.  I also wondered if stress had been a contributory factor as we left the dog alone in strange environment for him and he had been howling when we were out. I empathise with you, it is a worrying time. Prior to this he had no skin problems.

Mhairi - have you tried Yumega Plus (it is available from PAH)? I am using it with my dog after someone on here suggested it (sorry can't remember who). I also think malacetic shampoo is better than malaseb.

Ailsa

Thank you Ailsa, i will order some malacetic shampoo.  Haven't tried Yumega Plus either.  How are you getting on with it? I'm considering trying "Dog Bui-resonance analysis" homeopathic treatment, however my husband is sceptical.

I'd like to run a few things past you? What do you wash his bedding in? Do you use room fresheners/perfume diffusers? Do you use carpet powder? What flea treatment do you use and how often?How often do you/did you bath him (not in malaseb but regular shampoo).

We wash robs bedding in fairy non bio powder as this doesn't affect his skin, no we don't use room fresheners and we have got laminate flooring, i use advocate flea treatment on him every 8 weeks and also give him garlic and fenugreek tablets from dorwest, he is bathed at the moment once per week and i either use malaseb or quistel shampoo as i find the quistel products are excellent on rob as i don't like to keep using malaseb as i find this dries his skin.
My other westie also had skin problems so i found most of this out from him, i still think it must be something we are doing as i have now had 2 westies with the same skin problem but all the vets i see with him keep saying its nothing we are doing just that it is bred into them but i am not so sure.

> i use advocate flea treatment on him every 8 weeks

Maybe stop the flea treatment, or buy an alternative 6 monthly flea drop from the vets, Frontline is good. Also is there a special reason that you bathe Robbie so often? I should imagine just bathing this often with water only or any product would dry the skin and his fur. I have had my dog for 10 months now and have never bathed him yet. He doesn't have skin problems though. Is it the vet that suggested bathing Robbie this often?

i use advocate flea treatment on him every 8 weeks
I definitely wouldn't use chemicals on a dog with sensitive skin if there is no evidence of fleas. :(

The vet said that he has to be bathed every week in malaseb to stop him from getting malassezia again this year as he already has a sweety musty smell about him, i know bathing isn't any good for him like this but if we leave him his coat gets very greasy and he smells awful.
Out of choice i wouldn't keep bathing him but got no choice at moment.

Thanks for that HAMISH75 not sure if you got my PM a few days ago though.

I would leave off the flea treatment too. I rarely use any flea products on my dogs, I usually do them in the spring then again if I find any ticks so at most 3 times a year and we haven't had problems with fleas (fingers crossed and touch wood). My MIL had a westie with serious skin issues so I'll try to find what she used.

Do you use garlic for your dogs as a defense against fleas if you don't use flea treatment, the vet said to use advocate every month but i felt this was over excessive so went down to every 2 months.
I do find the quistel products very good on his skin though.

Do you use garlic for your dogs as a defense against fleas if you don't use flea treatment
I have fed garlic for over 15 years and used no chemical treatment.  My thick coated dogs have had no fleas, even when they have mixed with dogs running with fleas - yuk! :(

> Do you use garlic for your dogs as a defense against fleas if you don't use flea treatment

No, I just check them every week when I'm grooming and if there is any obvious signs of fleas/ticks I treat otherwise I just leave them. Same if they start scratching excessively, I have a look and if I see anything I treat. I certainly wouldn't use it every month, every 3 months is more like it in our house :-) . We have never had a problem with fleas, its usually ticks we get.

HAMISH 75 - re Quistel. Do you wear gloves when using quistel shampoo? I used it once without gloves and I had a very violent reaction to it with my own skin. I tried it again wearing gloves but even a tiny splash on my skin gave me such a violent reaction I was frightened to use it again. The very allergic westie I had at the time seemed okay with it though, but due to my violent reaction to it, I didn't try it long enough to see if it worked.

Ailsa

No i don't use gloves and have never had a bad reaction infact it seems to help soothe robbies skin more than the malaseb, perhaps you have a sensitivity to the ingredients?

Have you ever tried Dermacton shampoo or cream? We had a dog with very itchy skin caused by an allergic reaction to a flea bite, tried Malaseb along with loads of other things and found Dermacton to be the only one that worked. 

I have tried dermacton but it seemed to make his skin very red and sore so possibly he has an allergy to an ingredients in it, i tried it as i had heard such good reports from this and was disappointed it didn't agree with him

Have you tried any of the Camrosa products?
http://www.camrosa.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=99

The starter pack is cheap and will give you a good idea if it works.