my toy breed bitch is 65days to day and she has no real signs of her having her pups i had her scan and they sed she was 45days then cuz they could see the 4 chambers to the heart. she is still eating and she was running a round earlier. we just dont no wot to do she is only tiny and she has strech marks poor thing

id be worried too ,is this a breed that tend to go over? have you been taking her tempreture? is this her 1st litter?

if this breed dont tend to go over and shes only had 1 mating ? or could it be only 63 today with 2nd mating? i dont understand about you saying they could see 4 chambers to the heart? i know this breed can have heart problems was somthing found at the scan?

im abit confussed xx

when i took her for the scan they sed they put her at 45days cus they cud see they chambers to the heart in a good way if the cudnt see the cambers they wud of only put her at 40days. she mated onces

It sounds like the vet was taking the gestational age of the pups from what s/he could see on the scan. All hearts have 4 chambers, so the vet must have been thinking they were X days along in pregnancy as the chambers had developed to that degree.

While I am not a dog breeder, from what I have gathered on here is that scans can be unreliable, so have you counted the days from your first and subsequent matings? How doest hat compare with the vet's estimation?

sounds about rite i did have it wrote down but we moved house and for the life of me we can not find the paper

o right thankyou for that ,so have you taken her dates from that scan ? maybe the vets were wrong? and yours is right so she could still have afew more days, if your very worried id go and see your vet to talk about this xx

well in the last few moments she has started roaming about. we have phoned 2 vets and they told me if she has not had them by tomorrom morning they want her in

has she had the runs yet or gone off her food? any discharge....good luck xx

she has still been eating and no she hasnt had the runs. her back end looks like she has had a bit of discharge but i am not 100% tho.

they do get the runs before to clear themselfs out ,not all girls go off their food tho does sound like your girl could have a day or so to go but you know your dog and if she dont seem herself and you are worried go to the vets x

I wouldn't be happy about your breed going that long.  Even more so as you say that she is a small bitch.

I would be wanting an x-ray.  I know scans tell you how many, but an x-ray gives far more idea about size of whelps in relation to size of bitch.

And there is no reason to be worried about an x-ray causing problems.  I've had one of my toy bitches x-rayed when she was due, and it was helpful in giving the immediate decision to do a section.

she did empty her self earlier but not the runs

yes jean is right! you will also know how pups are laying? and if need be you can csection x

i was never told about i could have her x-rayed and the scan coudnt tel how many she is have they sin 2 but they sed it cud be more she is massive and can not get comfy its is a shame for her i hate to see her like this

When you say that she is massive, and can't get comfy, given that she is a small girl, I would be worried that she is packed out so tight, that she is unable to have contractions, as there isn't much room to do so.

Please watch out for inertia, as there is nothing you can do but have a C-section if it is the case.  Very often with toys, oxytocin doesn't help if they are packed really tight.  Inertia should be taken very seriously by the way.

i am so worried bout her now. the vet that i took her to sed that cuz my dog barley the dad to mazies pups is small the wud be small but we know this is not the case cuz barleys mom dad and brother was a lot bigger than him. i breed staffys many years ago but never had any prombles with them. but mazie is very very different from them when they was having pups

the only other thing is she has no milk yet

> we know this is not the case cuz barleys mom dad and brother was a lot bigger than him

Which is why I always, always look into the generations behind a breeding when I make up my mind if the toys are going to be used for breeding.  It is a big deciding factor for me, and why I have girls here that were spayed without even being considered for breeding.

I have seen too much heartache with the difficulties of breeding toys, although my breeds are much smaller than yours.  I never use small girls with larger parents or grandparents, given the high chance of throwbacks.

I would certainly be at the vets as soon as they open, insisting on an x-ray.  It is your bitch, and your choice.  I don't let a vet sway me when I am asking for these procedures.  After all, they have the medical knowledge, but they certainly don't have the breeding knowledge.  I have never had a toy breed go over a whelping date, as they are so well known for going early, and it's why I feel that you need to investigate further.

> the only other thing is she has no milk yet

I've had girls not have milk until after whelping, so don't use that as an indication to be honest.

I took one girl in at 7pm one evening a few years ago.  I was told that she was not dilated, did not have milk, and had not started.  I just knew they were wrong, I could see it in my bitches eyes. 

Her waters broke at 11pm and she needed a section due to inertia. 

I have a toy breed known for being early, last litter was palpated and thought to only be 1 or 2, so at 63 days from 2nd mating I was at the vets, and 2 days later with still nothing happening we had an elective C-section with 1 live puppy. Expensive but worth it, I couldn't have stood losing my girl!

hi we have bin to the vets to day and mazies temp has droped and i no its sound drity but he cud get 1 finger in and now she has had a little dig on my chair he sed that this is the early stage of her having her pups. we really hope so. he sed that that it still cud be a few days

sounds like she is ,dont leave her for long like this tho but im sure you know this :) good luck! xx

thanks alot the vet did say that if there isnt any sign of pups in bout 24 hour there is an injection that he can give her

if thats oxitosin(sorry bad spelling) jab PLZ dont let her have it ,that is only ment to be given once 1st pup is born it helps then contract BUT if your girl isnt ready it could cus her utrus to rip and she could die and you will loose pups if she isnt rushed in for C-section x

ok thanks i cudnt spell it either lol. now that she as started how long wud u leave her if nothing has happened

keep a very close eye on her its hard to say because every dog is different and breed u see i have large breed dogs and thay dont go over dates the 1st stage can last upto 2days or be a quick as only few hours if she starts contrating keep watching her and see how long she is taking then its the pushing ,jean is very up on small breeds im sure she can help u so much more them me ,good luck it all goes well for you both xx

well i will let you know what happens either way. the vet wants me to let him know what happens he want to follow her case over the phone

hope things are progressing.

I just wanted to second what white lilly has already said, DONT let the vet give her oxytocin before a puppy has been born, i dont like this jab at all and my one and only experience of it (even given after 2 pups were born naturally) resulted in 3 dead puppies and my bitch fighting for her life.....my girl made it and was spayed but i really think some vets are too quick to give this, you have to be sure your girls body is ready and the only way to know for sure is if she has delivered a puppy already, as i say in my case my girl had two pups but i still nearly lost her, i am now a strong believer that if the body doesnt want to get on with it naturally there is usually a very good reason, my girl had an anasarca puppy and that was the problem and her body knew that.

Good luck and i hope everything goes ok

> thanks alot the vet did say that if there isnt any sign of pups in bout 24 hour there is an injection that he can give her <IMG class=qButton title="Quote selected text" alt="Quote selected text" src="/images/mi_quote.gif">

a)  No way would I let a toy go 24 hours if she is already starting to open.

b)  I would certainly be changing my vet!  How the hell can they "follow it" on the phone. 

I know that most of us believe vets don't have a great deal of breeding knowledge, but I do expect a vet to take my concerns more serious than this.

I realise that vets have a "standard" approach.  If bitch has been having contractions for 4 hours, then see the vet!  :-(  That may be all very well for a large breed, I would never leave a toy contracting for more than an hour, and that would be my very outside limit (I would be on the motorway to the hospital before you could blink.)

They advise to "let them know" if no pup appears within an hour of the water sac appearing.  Again, I have never bred large dogs, perhaps someone with large breeds can give their view on this.  But, my maximum wait for a toy would be 40 minutes tops.  No way do I think I know it all, but I do think that I have delivered more toys naturally than any vet has.  They only get the bitch when it has started to go wrong.  They don't actually get to see the normal whelping process (unless they are breeders themselves.)

And above all - the same as others have advised - tread carefully if your vet really doesn't know the criteria for giving oxytocin!  The last thing you want is a ruptured uterus.  It should never, ever be given to a bitch that is not fully dilated.

jean this is why i told op to see what you have to say ,i dont have small breeds and only large ,i would be happy to leave it 1 hour after water bag and 1h of full none stop pushing but no more then this has ive had it and pups born fine with out to much worry.
like you say not many vets know much about breeding but only if thay do it themselfs! alot of people but to much faith in there vets at times like this and its a worry isnt it! :-( x

> alot of people but to much faith in there vets at times like this and its a worry isnt it! :-( x

You got that one right!

hi all we have bin up with mazie since 5.30 she has bin digging around and breathing a little faster than normal but nothing yet tho

so do u think your dates were right ?

to be honest my b/f sed he is 90% that i wrote the 25th august down but i really car rememba so i real dont no now.

how long do you think its going to be now i have no idea

sorry i couldnt say..but if you think theres a problem get her to your vets xx

ok thanks she is digging round again. i really cant rememeber cuz its bin ova 12years since i had a bitch that was having pups but from wot i can rememeber the bitch i had only dug around once and within the hour she had her 1st pup

ya ive had girls do this and girls dig for aday or 2 before whelp thats why i carnt say how long she will be :(

thanks for all ur help i will let you no how we get on xxx

Feel her tummy and try a gage if the pups are moving down or lined up.  I know the prep days can be painful from the books but not actual experience.

keep a very close eye on her and don't let her out your sight, she could go anytime and you can determine better if she gets into trouble.  Good luck.

Fingers crossed for you, hope things are moving along now.
Keep us posted.

I have to say if it was me I'd not wait any longer for a section -it's been too long and the chances of there being any live pups are getting smaller and smaller. I have both large dogs and toy dogs and the toys are SO different.

to let everyone no mazie has had 4pups 3boys and 1girl and are all doing fine she is such a good mum already.

thats great news well done to mum and you :)xx

Brilliant news...that's one girl who likes to keep an audience waiting, though! I don't know about anyone else, but I was definitely starting to get grey hairs from all the worry. Day 60/61, my girl, and I was happy with that, as everyone in my breed had told me that they've never know a bitch go over 63 days and keep her puppies! With stress like that, I was praying she'd start any moment. Couldn't have coped that long, though.

she was so good and i am so happy that nothing went wrong only that she had them on our bed. i dont mind really

Big relief! :)

o yes it is they r so cute same colours as mom and dad 2 of each

Oh that's brilliant news. Well done to both of you, i can't wait till Meggie has her pups. Any day now. xxxxxxxxx

Congratulations on your litter - I'll close this now the pups are safely here.