Hi
I have little sheltie bitch who is 18weeks old i have had her to ringcraft classes a couple of times over the last 2weeks ( ring craft classes held once a week ) but i cannot get her to stand  she also struggles on her lead when walking her on the mat so i  feel out of my depth and i know my feeling must be affecting her  ,I don't get a lot of feed back from poeple at my ring craft lasses in Dundee and there are no  other shelties or collies there . We attend  good  dog behaviour classes once a week to and has no problem there . Can anyone suggest how i  to get her to stand etc would great thank you .

When you say you can't get her to stand what does she actually do? Does she go into a sit or is it she stands for a nano second and then moves?

If she behaves better and you feel happier at the puppy GC classes, ask them to show you how to stand her. Obedience people do need to stand their dogs for DC, and any decent class should be willing to help you out. Also ask the ringcraft people for more help, some of these classes rely too much on owners knowing what to do and may not realise that you are struggling. And remember your puppy is still very much a baby, even a half stand or a wonky stand for 1 second should be rewarded at this stage. It would probably be worth NOT teaching her to sit after heelwork in the other classes just yet, if you have been doing so. I have a dog that works obedience and shows and they are perfectly capable of doing both, but I don't teach sit at heel until they are a bit more into the standing idea.

Hi
When i say i cannot get her to stand what i mean is she will stand for a second the turns around to see what he other dog are doing if i shortend her lead she struggles or she stand again few moment and then sits .

Where do you live? We go to Glenrothes ringcraft (not at the moment as our pup is in season) and they have been very good at helping my OH get used to showing a table breed. We have only had free standing breeds before so this was a bit of a novelty for us.

thank you for reply i really don't like to ask my ringcraft poeple for more help as everyone else knows what they are doing and would feel such a fool .I am think about seeing if get a handler for her but also think she is still a baby and this might be to early for her yet.

hi i live in Dundee.

It will mean practice daily at home too, but she is standing, which is a good thing. She is very young and I wouldn't expect a puppy to stand for very long at this age. Do you have a treat or toy which she likes which will keep her concentration a bit more?
Do make sure she isn't allowed to play with other dogs at ringcraft as its a time to learn and be around dogs but not play, more so as she seems to want to know whats going on with other dogs.
You do need to ask for advice at ringcraft, that is what they are there for to help you. Everyone has had to start somewhere..

As for getting a handler I really don't think this is wise, you can do it with your girl, time and patience are needed.
I'm forever asking questions and also getting given advice too.

As for obedience i'd ask your trainer to see if its ok when others do a sit you work on stand.

That sounds fine for such a baby. 

Just concentrate on getting her attention with a really nice treat only used for Ring training. 

Lots of short second at a time stands with a happy attitude is what you want not a miserable heap standing for 5 minutes.

> i really don't like to ask my ring-craft people for more help as everyone else knows what they are doing and would feel such a fool

Excuse me, how else do you learn if you aren't taught.  If you don't ask then everyone assumes you know what your doing and don't want help just practise (which is what most experienced exhibitors are doing when bringing out a new dog or refreshing training).

Everyone was new and had to start somewhere, so ask.

I think at 18 weeks she is almost bound to be a pain in the butt, I would be worried is any of mine were not. Pups of that age live a life time in 5 minutes so standing for more than a moment or keeping concentration would be exceptional and lead to a very dull pup. Keep practising and teaching and by the time she is 3 years she will be getting the hang of it. Pups should be pups, being a little soldier is not right for a pup and to insist on it will leave the pup with no ring presence.

i really don't like to ask my ringcraft poeple for more help

Hi maggie55, if you don't ask for help you could wind up wasting your time and not getting the best out of your dog. I did exactly that--I went along to the local ringcraft class, asked nothing and learned nothing, probably because I was too nervous to ask but also because I didn't have confidence in the way the class was run. I switched to an obedience class which again I didn't care for because the ethos was very much one of training police and guard dogs and inappropriate, found another good obedience class and stuck to it. I'm on my third ringcraft now, and this is great, with tons of advice (and a polite kick up the bum when you need it!) and wish I'd gone earlier. It's a 2 hour round trip, but worth it. I also finally have the confidence I need to ask questions and so far no one has said "That 's the dumbest question I've ever heard"...even if they might be thinking it :)

Stick with it--my boy has now qualified for Crufts in spite of me and I may well be the worst handler there on gundog day, but I am working as hard as I can to give it a go.

I know what you mean about not wanting to ask for help, but try to force yourself, everyone had to start somewhere, and my boy also qualified for Crufts and got a CC in spite of my rubbish handling, so do persevere. Just make sure you don't expect too much too soon, and make sure your girl is having fun - I'd rather see a naughty puppy in the ring who can be persuaded to stand and move just a little bit, then a perfectly behaved automaton with her tail between her legs.

> hi i live in Dundee.

I just wondered if you were close enough to try the Glenrothes one. Its usually fairly quiet and they will help you but it might be too far for you to travel. I would certainly speak to whoever is going over the dogs at your ringcraft and ask advice about getting your puppy to stand.

i really don't like to ask my ringcraft poeple for more help as everyone else knows what they are doing

my heart went out to you when you said this, but as someone else posted, we all started somewhere & most dog people are only too happy to help someone starting out.

please don't give up yet, you can learn together.  You won't learn if you give her to someone else to handle.  Don't expect too much too soon, try little & often at home & then do a little at ringcraft.  Don't over do it at ringcraft, make sure you sit & watch other people for a bit, join in, then take a break (as much for the puppy as yourself). 

Look at the positives, your pup sounds intrigued & happy about being there, far better than one skulking behind your legs or under the chairs.  It will all come with practice (I keep telling myself this every time my hairy yo-yo finds another method of showing me up, but I love him & he's bold as brass!)

Thank you all for you replies i will ask from now on even though it take al lot for me do so  my lovely  little girl is so  worth it .  i  will also remember that everyone has to start some where  when feel out of my depth .

Go and speak to the people who run it! If it is the one that Avril Gauld goes to she will be able to help you out, if she is there. She has rough collies. There are also people who have shelties who go now and then, so keep going and please ask the people running it! They will help. I can't get through to Dundee just now (no car) but I have done so in the past. It has always been a friendly place.

hi maggie55
I know how you feel as am going through the same as they don't have my breed there but have learned more from this forum then anywhere but please ask questions as this helps them to know and learn themselves and help you too
Good luck

Nessa

Maggie,

Go for it, you'll be surprised as to what you can achieve once you've put your mind to something. My youngest is now 20 months and he often won't stand still, he does sometimes and then has his off days.He's very much a fidget monster.. So don't like others have said expect too much too soon. I'd rather see a bouncy puppy than one which is like a statue showing little to no personality.

> Thank you all for you replies i will ask from now on even though it take al lot for me do so  my lovely  little girl is so  worth it .  i  will also remember that everyone has to start some where  when feel out of my depth .

Don't worry too much about it, very few people have 'perfect' show dogs, most dogs are simply there to show us up :-) :-) I've not been to the Dundee class but I thought that the people would be friendly so I'm glad Lindylou has confirmed that they are. Maybe they think you know what you are doing and as they don't know you they may not want to 'teach their granny to suck eggs' as it were :-) . As soon as you ask you will be deluged with advice I'm sure :-D .

The first time we took our dogs to ringcraft many years ago we turned up on the night they were having a match, they invited us to join in even though we hadn't a clue what was going on and both dogs looked like they had been through a hedge backwards. We had to borrow a brush from someone and hope for the best - it was fun though - eventually :-D Oh and our dog barked incessantly, just to add to the atmosphere :-D

Hi
I didn't relise there was more than one ringcraft class in Dundee .the first time i took my pup the poeple there said they hadn't had sheltie or collie for a long time . Last week one of the poeple who run the classes  made comment about my sheltie being the worse there that night so this of course made me worse .I did ask another if i was wasting my time and she just screw up her face  . So this what has made me feel i hopeless.

Maggie,

If that is the case i'd look elsewhere as they sound very unhelpful and not what you need when starting out, so no wonder you feel the way you do. And to get comments like that, from the sounds of things they don't know what they are talking about. Sorry you've had this experience but most people are lovely and want to help..
http://www.clubcorner.co.uk/dogs/ringcraftclubs.htm
See if there is anything on this list which is near you.

Maggie, where and when do you go?

No-one should tell you that your pup is the worst there, unless they just meant that it was acting up, not that it was a bad specimen. But even then they shouldn't have said it if they didn't know you well enough. That is just not on. There used to be 2 different ringcraft in Dundee. I don't know if there still is but will ask around for you.

Thanks Lindylou .I going to keep with the Ringcraft i have at least  with all thr replies i had i now feel i that able to cope better . I am very shy person and find it hard to talk to poeple and do take things to heart . quess if going to do this i have get on with it.

Hey maggie55

It can be really difficult just making small talk, but remember you have 1 common interest with these people - dogs - and if you perhaps take interest in some of these peoples dogs, just to get on some of their sides maybe. If there is 1 person there that appears really good at ringcraft maybe flatter them a little, and ask 1 or 2 questions about how to improve your ability with your own dog. Relax and enjoy, and remember they have all been in your shoes, not everyone is Mrs popular, but make friends with those that give you a possitive response when chatting.

Good luck.

Good luck at crufts.

Just quick up date to let everyone know i went back to the ringcraft classes  tonight and it went really well, everyone  was very friendly and i  also got lots of sounds advices from the people i  spoke to . So  i feel  so much more relaxed .A big thank you to  everyone who replied  to my message on here its good know there are poeple out there who are happy to give so much support .

That's a brave thing you have done there after the little experience you had, good for you.

thank you maggie55, I expect we will be cannon fodder if we get there, but on the basis that in our lives we should try to do as much as possible, especially outside our comfort zones, this hits all the buttons :)

well done you for having a go...I think what did it for me was putting myself in the shoes of experienced handlers and breeders, who might have been thinking "if she wants to do this so much, why on earth doesn't she ask for help so she doesn't make all the mistakes I did"