Hi all, I've just been organising all my supplies and sundries for when Megan has her pups and just noticed that the whelpi which came with the whelping kit that i ordered last time we tried, is now out of date.

Before i order some more today (hence the urgent ish) is there something better out there, maybe something more suited to small breeds.

I'd really like to know what you use and also do you give some to the bitch prior to the whelping as it says on the whelpi instructions.

Thanks guys

Welpi is very good and personally I think it is the best of the manufactured puppy milks. I never give my bitches milk (or pups) as they all seem to get really upset stomachs from it (but this varies of course, not the same for everyone), but I keep it at home in case I'd need to bottlefeed. You can usually pick a tub up from your vet, normally the quickest and easiest way to get hold of it. (Although perhaps not cheapest.)

Manor pharmacy also so sell it, much cheaper than the vets. :-)

Yes that's what I meant -if there is time, cheaper to buy it online, but when you need it in an emergency, the vets is the best bet as you can just go straight there and pick it up.

Probably too late with this reply but Royal Canin Baby milk in my opinion is far superior to Welpi and Lactol.  We handreared a puppy on it a couple of years ago. It is so much easier to mix than Welpi or Lactol, just mix it in the bottle (supplied), pop on the teat (with the correct size hole, also supplied), no messing about with baby teats, shake the bottle and hey presto!!  Used it again earlier this year when we had a litter, not for handrearing this time thank goodness, just to give to the puppies when they were older, in fact my 2 nine month old puppies often have a bowl of it.

Funnily enough I had the exact opposite experience of Royal Canin -much harder to mix. Odd!

That is odd MarianneB, water in first, powder next, top on and shake = no lumps.  Everyone I know that use it all say how super it is to mix.  The only time I've ever had a problem was when we were handfeeding baby Mimi every hour, we were like zombies, I was so tired I didn't count correctly as the scoops were going in and put one too many in, shook the bottle and huge lumps. I realised what I'd done and threw it away and started again with a newly sterilised bottle.  We love it here.

ive never had a problem with whelpi all my girls have loved it and the pups ,but 1 tried rc once pups and mum wouldnt drink it ,but the bottes are good so i kept them and used the whelpi :)

Have always used skinners puppy milk for my giant breed , good healthy puppies , digests easily and it comes in a 5kg bucket

I've just phoned my vets and they said they only have the 2kg one in stock but they said they'll open it and let me have however much i need.  Gonna pop in tomorrow and pick some up.  Is it a good idea to pick up some obstetric gel and dopram too, or being a beginner at this, would it be best to leave anything that required the use of these, to the vet.

my vet wouldnt sell me dropram i got it on line tho luckly never needed to use it , obstertric gel is a must! not long now :-) xx

> Is it a good idea to pick up some obstetric gel and dopram too

In my experience, a lot of vets use KY jelly.  And I much prefer proper obstetric gel, as stuck pups whizz out much quicker!

Dopram is twice as costly at your vets than buying from superdrug, and the delivery is fast.  But, norty, norty, you should have had this in before this late stage!

Been to the vets this morning.  Welpi and obstetric gel are now ready to go.  Kids are now banned from the study where megan will be delivering.  We've chosen the study because it's soundproofed, warm, and we have a corner sofa bed in there so i can sleep there too.  Also the lights are on a dimmer switch so we can keep it mellow and relaxed in there. Whelping box all set, receiving box and hot water bottle ready in case i need them. All equipment is laid out, fresh unused muslin cloths and towels piled up along with vet beds, newspapers and absorbent sheets.  Book of the bitch read again last night, along with the Whelping and rearing of puppies by Muriel P. Lee.  I have printouts laminated with key info on, the vets number pinned to the wall and my sister in law set on speed dial.
I have coffee, tea and biscuits ready for me, and chicken, rice, tuna and mashed potato ready for meg if she turns her nose up at her regular food.  I've watched about 20 deliveries of small breeds on YouTube and feel now that i'm prepped and ready to go.

Any other last minute hints, tips or words of advice.

Oh and Jean, i have considered myself told off. You're so right, i should not have overlooked obstetric gel.  I guess i was naive when i ordered the complete whelping kit and thought it was actually "complete". How stupid of me.

sounds like you are ready to go!!! all i can add is stay calm when she starts in the 1st stage ,i find its better to leave mum to it and not to make to much of a fuss just stay were she can see you ,i sit and read my book mums to be seem to just get on with it then :) good luck ,what day is she on now?xx

What about having a video camera there at the ready (for someone else to film obviously) of the births.

Video camera is a fab idea, i'm gonna have my macbook to so i can hopefully Ustream it all.

I'd be interested to see it.
Good luck with your pups. :)

> Oh and Jean, i have considered myself told off.

:-)  :-)  :-)

> Any other last minute hints, tips or words of advice.
>
>

Yes.  I always fill 4 100ml syringes with obstetric gel as soon as a bitch starts contractions.  If they're not needed, no problem, I can squirt them down the sink.  But I much prefer to have things ready in case a pup gets stuck, rather than waste valuable time.

Thanks Jean, that's the kind of hints i'm looking for.  Things that the books don't tell you, but experienced breeders do.

xxxxx

I bought my obstetric gel (Lubrel, 500ml) from VetMedsDirect.co.uk and it was incredibly sensible, as it came with a tube integrated into the bottle, so it was perfect for squeezing around stuck puppies. Also stopped me from having to fiddle with syringes, as I'm a bit clumsy.

Good luck with it.  Thinking of you.

Re. milk, I went with goats milk and two raw egg yolks for the mother, which is one of the few things she will eat/drink (plus raw chicken wings and cocktail sausages - she's not fussy, you understand...). At just over three weeks, the puppies are all trying to drink it too and none has had any dodgy tummies, so it seems to be suiting them.

> and it was incredibly sensible, as it came with a tube integrated into the bottle, so it was perfect for squeezing around stuck puppies.

I would personally never use an integrated tube to put inside a bitch - what when you want to use it next, and how do you keep it sterile?

I would never risk introducing infection.  I buy sterile syringes, sealed in there own covers, and always use a new one every time.  For the couple of coppers they cost, I much prefer the peace of mind.

> Also stopped me from having to fiddle with syringes

Any fiddling can be done way ahead of use - as I said, I prepare mine before they are needed.   And having a tube attached to the tube would be far less easy to manange than a single syringe on a breed as small as this.

Jean, what do you offer your bitch after she has whelped, i don't want to feed her something that a large breed's stomach could handle but our tiny breed can't.  People keep saying raw chicken, that sounds gross, what about salmonella etc.  Megan loves tuna, chicken and ham, what about her normal food mixed with cottage cheese. If i use gravy can i use granules, the ones with low salt and sugar.

Mine tend to not want food after whelping.  I just put glucose in the drinking water.  If a bitch doesn't want to drink, that worries me more than lack of food.  Then I use evaporated milk in the water to encourage them.  Although I have promised myself that I will try Nutrilac for my next litter, as Barbara sings its praises highly.

I usually have to literally carry them outside and close the door so that they will have a wee.  They seem to close down their systems, not wanting to leave pups.  I actually hold a dish under their noses inside the whelping box, mine won't even come out to eat.  So I will do this for however long is needed.

Tuna and chicken sounds fine to me, I don't give raw chicken either with this breed - I tend to tempt them with anything except their normal food - they will go back to it when they are ready.  My favourite is white fish to tempt, as I can steam it in half milk, half water.  I stock up with the value packs that Sainsbury's and Tesco do.  A couple of quid a bag, assorted shapes and sizes.

Altough I always leave a bowl of puppy kibble just outside the whelping box just in case, mine don't seem to eat much dry for quite a while after whelping.

If a bitch just won't eat at all, like everyone else, I will try anything!  Full creamed rice pudding, scrambled egg etc.  No two bitches ever seem to have the same favourite!

> People keep saying raw chicken, that sounds gross, what about salmonella etc.

Well, yes we're at risk of salmonella, but dogs generally aren't as they have a short tract specially designed for eating such stuff, which doesn't allow bacteria much time to multiply, I believe. That's how they eat so much rubbish with so few side-effects. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

thats very true parrot ,from tiny breeds to large breeds alot are feed raw even when theyve had pups ,plus a good puppy food to make sure their getting everything mum needs ,most dogs will pick up anything they can find and eat it without any problems x

definitely can't contract salmonella... I have a large breed and my pups also get raw chicken when weaning and when 5 weeks are able to manage raw chicken wings no problems!