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Our Dogs............... Heard a rumour today that there is to be a second Pedigree Dogs Exposed scheduled just before Crufts, concentrating on Chinese Cresteds and Bassets: anyone heard anything? x

Lets get Jemima to confirm this then :-)

This is an old rumour from my experience at least most of this yr its been going round.

someone has replied on Our Dogs

Crested folks have had rumours going round for a long time re some high up breeders being signed up for the program - who knows if its true or not other than those involved.

I think its a great idea, look how many litters now have health tested parents, so long as the program is fair and shows how to find a good breeder i.e. health tests, works the dogs etc etc.

They said ages ago that there would be, straight after the last one.  As long as it's more truthful, advises people on ensuring health tests etc. then it can only be a good thing.  If it's the same as the last one, then watch out for even more kinds of crosses.

I do hope the editing is less biased this time and that a true message gets through which represents the reputable breeders out there to people. 

If only the previous programme had been balanced and shown the good, reputable, responsible side of dog breeding instead of ignoring it entirely, giving the impression that it didn't exist. That's what did all the harm. Let's hope the producers are intelligent enough to have learned from their mistakes. Time will tell.

if it is true why concentrate on such rare, specialist breeds.... Can't see it giving a true fair picture or anything to educate (aimed to shock seems an only reason to me!).
If they are to pick breeds they should pick breeds such as labrador or german shepherd and what test should be done and educate...
Not just pick random breeds that probably look weird to many and many GP would never consider owning anyway!!

>If they are to pick breeds they should pick breeds such as labrador or german shepherd and what test should be done and educate...

That would certainly be the most sensible, helpful way to go, and would benefit the greatest number of dogs. But this is schlock, tabloid TV we're talking about, I'm afraid.

> if it is true why concentrate on such rare, specialist breeds

Lets hope that if they do cover Cresties that they also do surprise us and cover the popular breeds in this country - Labs, Spaniels, Staffs, Rotts, GSD's etc..

I'm praying that they give us a TV show which is there to educate the general public, Jemima must see what harm she has done(also done some good I must admit) to pedigree dogs as a whole, even if she won't admit it then at least do the right thing and promote good honest breeders and what brilliant work that they are doing. Cover some of the fab work on the health side of things from breed clubs(promote them too), most now must have a health committee.
Show the general public about how to check for health tests, where to go to find out whether they are good results etc etc etc

> Not just pick random breeds that probably look weird to many and many GP would never consider owning anyway!!

I do realise that they are not everyones choice but Basset Hounds are not weird!!

Maybe weird is the wrong word, but they are not of a standard canine conformation, hairlessness, achondroplastic dwarfism (short legs), bracchycephalic facial features are all departures from standard physiology.

Lesser departures are of course floppy ears, smooth and long coats etc

Why not cover a cross section of the most popular breeds:

TOP TWENTY BREEDS 2008                      TOP TWENTY BREEDS 2009
1 Retriever (Labrador) 45,233                        1 Retriever (Labrador) 40,943
2 Spaniel (Cocker) 22,508                              2 Spaniel (Cocker) 22,211
3 Spaniel (English Springer) 14,899              3 Spaniel (English Springer) 12,700
4 German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) 11,903   4 German Shepherd Dog (Alsatian) 10,338
5 Cavalier King Charles Spaniel 11,226        5 Cavalier King Charles Spaniel 8,884
6 Staffordshire Bull Terrier 10,744                  6 Staffordshire Bull Terrier 8,746
7 Retriever (Golden) 9,159                              7 Border Terrier 8,214
8 Border Terrier 9,145                                     8 Retriever (Golden) 7,804
9 Boxer 7,353                                                   9 Boxer 5,947
10 West Highland White Terrier 7,330          10 West Highland White Terrier 5,890

Is the idea of the programme to educate the GP as to where they should buy their next dog from and why, though? I didn't see the first prog, so not sure the content of it, but it sounds to me that the prog was more to highlight the harm that certain breeders are doing by cross breeding dogs, creating future breed problems.

Maybe if Jemima's prog doesn't highlight the issues of puppy farms, bad breeders etc, and the problems their dogs have. Then hopefully someone else will produce a show, that does educate the GP, on the importance of decent breeders, breeding decent healthy, happy pups. Help the public decide who best to buy their pup from and who to steer well clear of. Also highlight that certain crosses of breeds are wrong, just wrong, and unhealthy, and educate the GP to do themselves and the unfortunate breed a favour and stop buying them.

Unfortunately not: http://www.pedigreedogsexposed.net/  You can download it here: http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/67656573/Pedigree+dogs+exposed?tab=summary

I remember seeing it now, I can't watch it again though, the boxers fitting, and those poor spaniels in agony with their head problems was enough for me first time around. Someone somewhere has a lot to answer for though creating these problems, just so that a dog can look a certain way, it's wrong.

See you have just bought into the sensationalist hype. ;)

For starters epilepsy is not a 'breed' problem in Boxers.  Dogs are affected by epilepsy fairly often be they mongrel or pedigree,a and ti is only considered a 'breed' problem if the incidence is more than statistically average for all breeds, though of course no responsible breeder would breed from a known epileptic.

As you can see from the stats posted Cavaliers are one of the tip 10 breeds registration wise, and good breeders are dealing with health issues (as in the first link I Posted) but also a lot of the breed Will be bred by people less caring and knowledgeable, as is the case with Hip dysplasia in GSD's and labs.

The whole program made it seem that breed standards (noen asks for dogs with health issues) and pedigrees in themselves caused problems and that all breeds were unhealthy, which is patently not true.

Worst of all it gave the impression that all breeders were bad.

Well here is one sorry breeder in whose best interest it is to breed healthy dogs as I have to live with the results until their dying days.

My oldest had her first vet visit for a warty lump on her eyelid to be removed last year at 12 1/2.  She had a bit of conjunctivitis after getting into my dads rancid leaf mold heap at 12 weeks, not vet attention needed in between.

It will be interesting to see what impression you get of the dogs you will see and meet on the 31st and one of those dreadful dog shows full of breeders and owners of freaks, who can barely walk and breathe etc (tongue firmly in cheek).

>I can't watch it again though, the boxers fitting

You've just proved what an inaccurate picture the programme portrayed. Any type of dog can be epileptic - it's not a problem confined to boxers, or even to pedigree dogs as a whole, so goodness knows why it was featured on a programme entitled Pedigree Dogs Exposed. At the vet practice where I work we have a few epileptic dogs ... and not one of them is a pedigree! The majority are (unrelated) terriers crosses.

> For starters epilepsy is not a 'breed' problem in Boxers Dogs are affected by epilepsy fairly often be they mongrel or pedigree,a and ti is only considered a 'breed' problem if the incidence is more than statistically average for all breeds, though of course no responsible breeder would breed from a known epileptic.

It would be good if the programme foucsed on breeders who do deal with an epilepsy-prone breed and it was demonstrated how it is dealt with responsibly. Plus all of theother problems.... CLAD in Irish Setters, and many other examples.

PDE will never really be an honest programme until it goes into details about how responsible breeders ARE working towards the elimination of issues.... and thereby educating the GP on how to choose a good dog.

Mind you with the many thousands of farmed puppies being bred here and in Ireland, flooding the market, and the many more thousands who think it's nice or clever to breed from their own pets, non-tested....  

Yep I read the Bateson report!!! every word of it, and totally agree with him. Now we need someone to champion those breeders who already DO what Bateson recommended.

And someone else who can help put his ideas into real practice! Step up to the mark, Jemima!

> but it sounds to me that the prog was more to highlight the harm that certain breeders are doing by cross breeding dogs, creating future breed problems.
>

Alas not, nothing to do with cross breeds, only pedigree's and in turn many puppy farmers and byb's are now saying anything 'KC reg isn't healthy' and 'mine don't need health testing they are already healthy, only those which are unhealthy need testing'.. Also the newly formated 'a cross breed is healthier than a pedigree'..
This programme did little for the decent breeder, they never highlighted the place to go and in effect left the door wide open to the wrong breeder... Soooo many people I work with think cross breeds are healthier, sad, really sad

So really the show was about trying to put people off buying these dogs then, if it had nothing good to say about breeders and the dogs. The prog certainly had nothing to do with highlighting, what we would like the show to highlight, so the next one will be of the same ilk, just slagging off, certain areas, of the doggy world. Like you say sensationalism.

It is good that people like yourself go out of your way to do all you can to breed the very best quality dogs you can, but I guess like with humans, there will always be illnesses that run through certain breeds, and certain generations.

>The prog certainly had nothing to do with highlighting, what we would like the show to highlight, so the next one will be of the same ilk, just slagging off, certain areas, of the doggy world. Like you say sensationalism.

The original programme, in a single evening, put back the slow, steady education of the public about how to source a well-bred healthy pet by about 50 years, and gave puppy farmers a bigger boost than they could ever have dreamed of. Totally shameful.

> but I guess like with humans, there will always be illnesses that run through certain breeds, and certain generations.

But unlike humans, we can choose who breeds with whom.... and help to eliminate (or most definitely, control) certain hereditary issues. The puppy farmers, the cross-breeders and the 'nice to have a litter from my pet' sort are only contributing to numbers of dogs, and are not part of the solution in any way.

When I began going to training classes with my family's dogs and discovered a love of training & working with them, two breeds predominated. I always thought when I could have a dog of my own, it would be either of those two breeds. Then I met another breed and it all changed. They might be called a minority breed but the majority of breeders within the breed are the most conscientious you could wish for. If I was ready to have another puppy now, I know exactly where I would go and to which breeder and I know I would be rewarded with a healthy long-lived, fabulous dog.

So why aren't those who are doing it right, getting any credit?

and those poor spaniels in agony with their head problems was enough for me first time around. Someone somewhere has a lot to answer for though creating these problems, just so that a dog can look a certain way, it's wrong.

Rufus lived for 15 years and 2 months, he was a Cavalier and he did not have Syringomyelia. I bought Monty from the same breeder, a wellknown show breeder and championship judge, a few months after Rufus died. Monty has parents and grandparents tested clear of SM so no risk of him being in agony -and he still looks just the way he should.

> So why aren't those who are doing it right, getting any credit?

Probably because like with a lot of things, especially in the media, the bad issues are focussed on and not the good things.

> Rufus lived for 15 years and 2 months, he was a Cavalier and he did not have Syringomyelia.

I remember reading your story about Rufus, It was a lovely tribute.

> Probably because like with a lot of things, especially in the media, the bad issues are focussed on and not the good things.

So those who do, need a voice also... Have you read the Bateson report, Sian? It's very interesting reading. This guy is not as remote as you might think, he breeds pedigree cats.... Throughout it I kept thinking: "This is just what I would have said myself!" with only a very few criticisms. Not some nob who knows nothing, he took a very intellgent viewpoint.

> Have you read the Bateson report, Sian?

No I haven't but I noticed you mentioned it earlier, so was going to google it tomorrow at work, when I have 5 mins, and not so tired.

>I do realise that they are not everyones choice but Basset Hounds are not weird!!

I just wanted to say I did not mean it is a nasty way when I said weird(could not think of a better word, English is not my first language) but in a way of not being the norm dog people see around...
First thing that would come to GP mind is massive ears, short legs, no hair etc... and to pick breeds like this for a TV program to me says they are after reaction not trying to educate in any way... so totally wrong direction...

> I just wanted to say I did not mean it is a nasty way when I said weird(could not think of a better word, English is not my first language)

You probably meant, uncommon, not popular LOL

> First thing that would come to GP mind is massive ears, short legs, no hair etc...

That's no way to describe Brainless there.LOL

Oh I don't know, short fat legs, less hair than a crested (well I hope I don't ahve hairy anklets and wrists) :)

> massive ears, short legs, no hair etc...

I've met many a BH with problems but as yet have to meet a hairless one?

Hairless refers to the Cresteds LOL

Now that would be a bizarre cross....

Just a thought though in all seriousness these little cresteds, would they not get sunburn? Why would you want a dog with no fur?

I think Professor Sir Patrick Bateson should team up with the programme makers of Spring watch, Autumn watch etc and the lovely Kate Humble, and produce a show highlighting the positives of dog ownership, and what to look for in a breeder, etc.

Yes, they use sunblock, though no different to a Poodle in Lion trim, or a Lowchen.

Yes they can get sunburn if you leave them in direct sunlight with no protection just like humans. We have cresties and they are so great that everyone who meets them love them and to me they do not look weird. As some people we meet in the street say oh look is that not cruel clipping that dog's hair off. We have to tell them that's how they are!  You have to live with them to appreciate them they are fabulous little dogs and make great hot water bottles!!!!