Hi all , i am putting this on here for a friend who has no computer access at the mo .

Hi , i am after some help with my 5 month old German Shepherd pup , to cut a long story short i got Zane at 9 weeks from a reputable breeder , met both parents , fab temperaments etc. He had his 2 nd injection late as he came down with a bug shortly before he was meant to have it at 12 weeks so he ended up having it at 15 weeks instead , therefore his first trip out on lead was at 16 weeks , prior to this he was carried around. To start with he was fine and happy to see other dogs etc , however when he was 17 weeks my mother died very suddenly and i fully admit i was not in a very good place emotionally and i definitely let his walking/socialising slip for a few weeks. When i took him about after that i noticed that he would growl if he saw a dog approaching and even if people tried to stop and stroke him he would back away and growl. I enrolled him at a pup class , he did the same thing but eventually relaxed with the other pups in the class and was happy to play off lead , he was not so happy with the humans though, we have continued going there trying to make him more sociable but i must admit it is not doing much good.
Zane is now 5 months and the situation now is that he will bark at other dogs if he is on lead , if he is off lead he still barks but not so aggressively and he stays by my side. If he passes people he is quite happy as long as they don't try to stroke him , if they do he backs away and growls still. However if they have a treat , he will take it from their hand and allow a very quick stroke and then back away. If it is a dog that he knows , i walk him with Mels 4 shepherds and he is fine with them and her as he has known them from 8 wks old  he is happy to be stroked by her and play with her dogs.
I am at a loss as to what to do next , i am so cross with myself as i know this is my fault for not socialising him enough in the aftermath of my mums death. I bought this boy with the intention of doing comp obedience with him as he is from fab working lines and i can see this not happening now as he certainly would not pass a temp test at the moment or allow someone to go over him. Please give me advice as to what to do next as i am so anxious to get this sorted.
Kind Regards
Emma

It's a long journey but it can be done and at least pups is just 5 months still. Don't suppose they live anywhere near Lincolnshire? A training class for the purpose of helping dogs with problems would help a lot but I only know of one in Lincs. The key is to never force anything. The fact he will take a treat from a stranger's hand is very encouraging as some nervous dogs would only take a treat if it was thrown away from the person, so he's not as bad as it may seem. But she should not let people stroke him after giving him a treat, he will then learn that receiving a treat means something he doesn't like is involved. It all has to be done very slowly over a period of time and start with just giving treats, no strings whatsoever attached, and gradually work up to being touched. It does also require a variety of understanding people who will NOT rush things, plus friendly dogs. A ringcraft might be the best place if there is no such class as the one I mentioned, as long as the people in charge realise they must never force anything -sadly many ringcraft trainers just go crash bang wallop with shy dogs and expect it to work -it doesn't.It is all a lot to explain just in a short post but I have been working with one of mine for the past 2 years -he was way, way worse than this GSD seems (and for other reasons) and he is getting there, but it is a very slow process.

Thank you Marianne for your reply , i am in kent so a fair trek from Lincs lol.
The class that i am going to is a small obedience class and the thing is that he is coming on in leaps and bounds with his obedience and being in the class doesn't bother him at all. Its almost like he recognises these dogs now as he has been going for a few weeks and is not scared of them , when it comes to off lead play he is more than happy to join in.
I appreciate that it will be a long journey and will do anything i can to sort this out.
Many Thanks
Emma

Where in Kent are you ?

I am in Sittingbourne.
Emma

Oh bother had a brief idea but wrong end of kent ( not there is anything wrong with sittingborne lol)

lol there is plenty wrong with Sittingbourne , i am more than happy to travel anywhere.

Have a look at the APDT website and see if there are any trainers on there near you, and ask if they do any 'Growly Dog' classes.

As well, look at the APBC website for behaviourists - very often this kind of issue can be helped with a behaviourist rather than a trainer - and sometimes vice-versa. In some instances, people are qualified with both, or work as a team with someone from the other.

At least with the above two organisations you know you will be working with someone accredited and a member of a respected body. There are a lot of cowboys out there unfortunately!

My trainer in Sittingbourne is also fabulous , she has done wonders with my shepherds and only uses positive methods.

I am a bit confused, is this your pup or your friends? Are you Emma?

Anyway, at 5 months he is only a baby. I wouldn't consider taking him to a growlers class, as the last thing he needs is exposing to "problem" dogs. A lot of things need taking into consideration, the lack of socialisation, the emmotional state of his family due to the bereavement, around this age he is entering his second critical fear period and his flight instinct is developing. I would keep things very low key, and let him discover the world at a slower pace. As Marianne suggested, let him take titbits off people, but then they must ignore him.

With shy puppies, I prefer if the treats are sprinkled on the floor for pup to hoover up, then the stranger moves on their way without even acknowledging pup. After a few repetitions, pup starts to think Ah good, strange person means goodies on the floor with nothing scary happening. Once pup is relaxed with people approaching, I then ask them to sprinkle a couple of treats on the floor, and just hold their hand open for pup to take the treats from the hand, again no staring or touching. All the time pup is learning that people approaching doesn't have to be scary.

Have a look at the APDT website, then ring a couple of the trainers up and have a chat. Try and find one that has experience of breeds other than collies, preferably GSD's. As a good indicator if they are offering agility and flyball, the chances are they will be into collies. Not that I have anything against collies, but it is important the trainer has experience with GSD's. Have a look at the ObedienceUK website, you may be able to find someone in your area that trains for competitive obedience, who would be able to help you.

Hi Goldiemad , sorry for the confusion. The pup in question belongs to my friend Emma , she was here last night so answered the replies herself but as she is not a member on here she was using my account.

Goldiemad makes a good point about making sure the trainer has experience in dogs other than collies. I visited an APDT trainer for help with Vic's bad recall when he was younger and we weren't blown away, after the first session the trainer seemed very down hearted and said they thought they would have made more progress?! Not even I thought he would be 'cured' in an hour, lol.
I got the impression that the trainer had a lot of experience with collies and other pastoral/shepherding breeds but not much with sight hounds.
The lady who runs the place I go to now has lurcher experience and it's made all the difference.

Definitely need at trainer who is used to gsd but not one who thinks they should be handled as potential police/working dogs. Sorry to any police handlers on here but I had a couple of bad experiences with such handlers and my gsd and am sure it increased our problems and made sorting them far harder.
Gently but firmly and with treats I believ is the way forward. Like your ideas goldiemad 

I'd also recommend a booklet by Patricia McConnell called The Cautious Canine.
It is only a cheapie, but has oodles of good information explaining the process of desensitizing and counter conditioning - terms that just mean getting a dog used to things it is scared of, at a pace it can take, and helping the association be a good one.

I agree to go at the dog's own pace. Get people to not crowd, and to drop food on the floor without looking at the dog or trying to interact. If you have any problems, I would advise contacting a reputable person very soon - as now you have a good chance to build up the confidence, whereas in 6 months time it will be more difficult.
http://www.apbc.org.uk/

I'd like to suggest contacting one now, to be honest :)

Lindsay
x

Thank you Lindsay , this is Emma , the owner of the pup.

I have printed off a list of trainers/behaviourists in my area and will start contacting them today to have a chat about Zane , in the meantime can i just check that i am approaching this in the right way.

Zane isn't at all bothered if he sees a person on the other side of the road or even if he has to pass them on the pavement , it is only when they actually try to touch him that he backs off and growls. Since yesterday i have been giving him a treat every time he passes a person , he happily does this and i stop the treats when they have passed. I stopped to talk to a lady this morning whilst out on our walk , i asked her not to look at Zane and to give him no attention whatsoever , we spoke for about 10 mins and Zane happily sat next to her leg and eventually laid down , she dropped a few bits of cheese on the floor and he ate these , he then went to her hand of his own accord to get some more, is this  ok or shall i just leave it with the dropping treats on the floor?

When we pass other dogs he is happy to accept his treats while they walk by and doesn't make a sound , if i didn't have the treats he would bark. I sat on the park watching dogs in the distance with him and praising him for being quiet etc , is this enough for now or should i be getting closer ? The only problem i have found is that quite often we are having dogs come over to us even though he is on lead and clearly in training , how do i deal with these instances. I have tried calling the owner to retrieve their dog but they quite often seem to have no recall !!
I did a very short session of basic training with him on the park this mornin , just sit , down , stand , wait etc and he knew there were other dogs around (in the distance) but quite happily did his training. He will do anything for food.
Ayway , what i am trying to say is , am i doing too much too soon? or not enough?
Many thanks

Emma x

Hi Emma,

I think you are doing all the right things at the moment. I would carry on as you are for now,it's early days and if you push your pup too much too soon you will undo all you have achieved. As for the loose dogs you meet,I would keep a discreet distance away from them even if that means turning and walking the other way. If only people would put their dogs on the lead when they see your pup is on lead the world would be a happier place lol.

Kind Regards

Hi Emma,

You see to be approaching it in the right way :) The idea is to think of bar open/bar closed, so that on the appearance/approach/passing of person, the dog gets what it really loves most - usually this is extra tasty food (liver, chicken, etc that it would not normally get, or sometimes a game) and as the person has passed, the bar "closes" and there is no more of that nice stuff until the next time :)

You can take opportunties as you are doing, for example when chatting to someone;  every now and then feed the dog (but don't let anyone touch) If the puppy attempts to make contact, I'd suggest allowing something very brief with NO eye contact to start... watch puppy's body language at all times. In time you should find there is more confidence and so you can then start to allow a tiny bit of eye contact, etc and so on in tiny steps (tis all in the book ;) ).

You can also use this "bar open/closed" for dogs. Also, I'd suggest finding some more good, reward based classes to go to (but do have a good chat with the instructor first, make sure they are not going to undo your good work in one fell swoop!!). As well as the APBC people, some of whom may do classes, I'd suggest http://www.apdt.co.uk/ All their classes should be good, but you can ask to go and watch first if you like :)

I'd suggest fun classes such as trick training, or even something like "good manners". With shepherds, you need to really be actively socialising them for much of their lives, but if you get in some good work in the first couple of years, you will often find they are better at not barking over every little thing, for example.

I hope that's helpful. Good luck!

Lindsay
x

Why not join the GSDL and /or BAGSD? They probably have training classes in your area or can recommend someone.

SATS is a good startingpoint  for you, http://www.southernalsatiantrainingsociety.co.uk/

http://www.bagsd.net/

http://www.gsdleague.co.uk/