Hi

I've bought a pack of chicken wings with the intention of giving them to the dogs.  So far nearly two weeeks have passed and no little wing has made it to the dogs tums.  (no a new pack of chicken will be bought lol).

I have worries as mentioned before, will I find my darling praying to god with all fours.  so a few questions;

How do i know the chicken does have salmonella?  I remember my mum giving my old dog when she was much younger some raw chicken bones with meat on.  i told her off at the time and I spent half the night cleaning stuff deposited from both ends.  My girl didn't appear ill but i wouldn't like to inflict on the dogs again.

What benefits do the get from the wings (or neck) that i couldn't give them otherwise.  i already make my own fresh dried chicken and that's not poisoned them yet, Would this give the same benefit as the dried.

I now give them more raw foods but not completely as they are too picky.  I give the AG which I'm not impressed with and struggle to get it down them.  They also have tripe, semi cooked, raw lamb and raw cooked beef.  One loves fruit and veg.  They also get cooked lamb ribs and have started giving them raw lamb ribs for a chew.

Can someone reasure me they won't have their feet in the air if i give it to them and maybe some advice on feeding.  Both coats are dry and they have trouble wieghting up, its only since the raw that I've got some weight on them.  I feed AG small kibble lamb and rice which i coat in Olive oil, they won;t touch it otherwise.

Thanks

When one of my bitches had a large litter 2 years ago she lost about half her body weight and had terrible, terrible diarrhoea -all caused by the fact that I put her on the puppy version of the complete food she was normally on. She dropped more and more weight whatever I did and at one point we even thought she'd die. The one thing that sorted her stomach and started to put weight back on her was raw chicken wings -she got one every waking hour of the day then. Since then I've given it to all my dogs AND the cats and not a single one has had a problem from it. The bones gives extra calcium and helps firm them up. Yes the salmonella risk is there (you couldn't tell) but you'd have to be unlucky indeed. I believe dogs are meant to be able to cope with it and in most cases do not get ill. In fact I read recently that dogs can even cope with rotten meat whereas cats can not.

I have one dog that had an upset stomach from 3 months of age, nothing helped, no medication, no food, so at 6 months of age he was put onto raw meat and bones only. He now has the most perfect body and the best coat out of all of mine as all the others get a mixture of raw and complete (only because I can't stomach seeing meat, it makes me heave -can't even walk past it in supermarkets. So my husband feeds the raw meal and I feed the complete when he's at work. Rocco's raw meal he prepares in advance for me and I quickly throw the bowl down and hold my breath and look away!). His stomach is perfect as long as he only gets meat. When I train him and at times feel lazy and use dog treats instead of bits of sausage or similar you can always tell by his poo later -it's gone all sloppy again.

Raw meat is of course a lot more natural than cooked to a dog. :)

I had exactly the same fear...but needn't of worried...they were all still smiling and wagging their tails the next morning.... and eager for more :)

Tom Lonsdale's book "Work Wonders" is brilliant.... and really simple to read and just makes you wonder to yourself why you never though of raw-feeding before

Helpful points to start off with until you gain in confidence...

Always raw and never cooked  - cooking reduces the amount of available nutrients..... and it's the cooked bones that may shatter and splinter.

Don't feed too much (muscle) meat on its own as it isn't balanced enough. (maybe up to 30% of the diet)

Meat and bone together - Its the calcium/phosphorous ratio in these that are really important to their health and well-being (thats why chicken wings and chicken carcass is so good for them and forms the basis of a lot of raw-feeders feeding regimes

A small amount of offal twice a week like lambs liver...too much can give them the runs although it is only temporary!

For offal requirements try to picture a whole carcass of wild rabbit as an ideally balanced meal. So if you picture in your head .....how big the liver is.....compared to the amount of  meaty bone and flesh it kind of gives you an idea of the amount of offal to feed. (Or if your dogs like it...just give the whole rabbit to them..!)

As a rule of thumb try to ensure that the meaty bone is bigger than your dog's head. That way you know they are going to have to chop it down to "swallow size" pieces.

Thanks Marrianne.  You've given me a good incentive to try it.

I'm trying to get more raw as I've noticed some difference with the lamb.  I cringed like mad when I first gave it to them, i felt sorry for them lol.  They devoured it.  Would it hurt to give it every day?

I'll try and brave it again tomorrow.  What do tyou think about the dried chicken.  it homemade but you can't dry the skin so just meat and it looks better than the packet stuff.

I've also been told to pop it in the micro to take the chill off for a few seconds.  Surely this isn't safe.

Just going to read the other post also, thanks.  it went up when Was typing this one lol.

> I've also been told to pop it in the micro to take the chill off for a few seconds

No don't do that... lol.. I stick anything which need defrosting in a sink of warm water. If defrosted then they have them handed straight to them. I often feed partially frozen tripe and rabbits with no problem.

> They also get cooked lamb ribs

I don't feed raw but I would worry about this, as someone else has already said only Raw bones

>How do i know the chicken does have salmonella?

When you think of all the vile things that dogs scavenge when they're out and suffer no ill-effects from you soon stop worrying! But if you're really concerned you can wash the wings in hydrogen peroxide to kill any surface bacteria.

>They also get cooked lamb ribs

No, never ever give cooked bones.

Dogs systems are different to ours dont worry about salmonella it is very unlikely to be a problem. as someone else said just think about all the nasties they eat given half a chance. Poo all types road kill, rumaging in the rubbish left by someones picnic if you dont get to them fast yuk we would be dead twice over if we ate that lot !
Mine virtually refuse anything but raw now . No I lied my dinner would go down a treat and also licking my empty yoghurt pots
Oh yes i sometimes feed partially defrosted meat to them it does no harm and gives their teeth an added workout.

oh yes the yoghurt pots. I often have to share my yoghurt in the mornings lol and they get the pot if on the floor.

Still not braved it.  Maybe tomorrow.

> How do i know the chicken does have salmonella?  I remember my mum giving my old dog when she was much younger some raw chicken bones with meat on.  i told her off at the time and I spent half the night cleaning stuff deposited from both ends.  My girl didn't appear ill but i wouldn't like to inflict on the dogs again.

If it's fresh human grade food then you should have no worries for your dog.  The reaction your mums dog had is quite normal with raw chicken if it wasn't used to it.  Lots of dogs gulp chicken pieces and then regurgitate it for a 2nd go :)

>What benefits do the get from the wings (or neck) that i couldn't give them otherwise.  i already make my own fresh dried chicken and that's not poisoned them yet, Would this give the same benefit as the dried.

There's no real benefit in dried except for your peace of mind.  Your dog will get more enjoyment from raw, and cleaner teeth too - you will benefit from less poo which is easier to manage (low smell and better kickability!)

>I now give them more raw foods but not completely as they are too picky.  I give the AG which I'm not impressed with and struggle to get it down them.  They also have tripe, semi cooked, raw lamb and raw cooked beef.  One loves fruit and veg.  They also get cooked lamb ribs and have started giving them raw lamb ribs for a chew.

If you don't like AG then change it.  However dogs that develop a taste for raw will often reject kibble.  NEVER feed cooked bones of any kind.  Raw lamb breast is good for adding weight and it's a nice balance of meat and bone.  Feed fruit and veg if you want to, but it isn't necessary for your dogs

>Can someone reasure me they won't have their feet in the air if i give it to them and maybe some advice on feeding.  Both coats are dry and they have trouble wieghting up, its only since the raw that I've got some weight on them.  I feed AG small kibble lamb and rice which i coat in Olive oil, they won;t touch it otherwise.

Watch them whilst they eat their bones, don't let them get competitive with one another as that sometimes leads to them gulping larger amounts.  Try chicken drumsticks if you think wings will be too much bone or feed the whole leg.  You can bash any of these portions with a hammer if you want to give your dogs a head start.  If you have large dogs feed largish bones til they are experienced, some dogs would always find wings far too small

A tip for feeding kibble is to add some tinned sardines - makes it almost irresistible!

Thanks for that, will give it another bash.  They're small breed so apparently only need about 6oz a day then adjust accordingly.  i think i can get them to eat that.  Tried the sardines, will hand feed a little (sigh).  I think some of the problems were due to starting handfeeding to get them to eat instead of being mean and letting them go hungry.

The good thing with the lamb is that i can give it to them without hand feeding.  Sometimes they will eat out of the bowls but it depends if they fancy it or are really hungry, one is very reluctant.

Not changed the AG yet as had 5bags of the stuff after Crufts, bought a sample home and they gobbled it, must have been spiked with extra flavour as never touched it after that very well untill I put olive oil on, then theyopened up for hand feeding.  Do you know how long it takes to feed pidely kible lol.

Have bought a new batch to try in the morning.

Is it safe to freeeze then allow to thaw overnight.

Seriously, don't hand feed - it seems to be one thing guaranteed to create fussy eaters.  Let them go hungry if necessary.  Put the food down - leave for 10 or 15 minutes then pick it up til next time.  (Yes, yes I know - easier said than done :) )

Very fresh kibble will seem more oily, and a freshly opened packet has a more intense smell.  Try warming it slightly in the microwave or cover with a splash of warm water - it activates the smell.  Interestingly that's also what happens when you hand feed - your body temp will activate the smell.  Alternatively boil a chicken or a large chicken portion till it falls off the bone, strip the meat and allow it to cool in the stock.  This chicken gloop is great to feed with kibble.  Freeze it in small individual portions and thaw as necessary.  Just a small amount fed warm over kibble will often stimulate the fussiest eater.

You don't have to freeze raw chicken before feeding - straight from the supermarket is fine but remember to allow it time to reach room temperature.  Cold food smells of nothing so your dogs won't be tempted til it's warmed up.

Finally, some small dogs can get a bit outfaced by food, even some bigs dogs have this trouble!  If necessary feed 3 smaller meals per day, rather than just one, and try and feed after exercise if you need them to be hungry first.  Good luck

When worrying about salmonella, campylobacter, e-coli etc etc remember................

Dogs like to like their own bottoms..................... ;)

I've read that chicken wings are good for cleaning dogs teeth but never fed.... so questions for the experts........

How do gulpers cope with them?
How about tiny dogs, do you give them a whole wing?
Where do you get them from?
How often would you feed them to help with teeth cleaning (couple times a week)?

Gulpers either keep them down or occasionally reacquaint themselves with them and enjoy them all over again.
I have not had tiny dogs but my youngest dog (GSD) was eating whole chicken wings before I brought him home at 7 weeks, at 8 weeks he was eating whole chicken carcasses.
You can get them from any supermarket, if you buy in bulk with several others like a co-op you can get them wholesale or even better from producers much cheaper.

As I feed raw totally I cannot answer the last question.

Thanks tohme, I'm veggie and thought chicken wings would be a waste product and not to be found in supermarkets :)

Not been to many barbecues then.............. ;)

One or two but I avoid watching too closely  ;)

Morrisons sell chicken wings. I buy wings, liver & lamb ribs from them. My GSD & whippet love raw, but I have a terrier x who hasn't got a clue what to do with a chicken wing, she doesn't particularly like bones either. She is a little human dustbin with all other food, not fussy at all,  but she would sooner starve than eat a chicken wing!

I also buy chicken wings from the supermarket then put them in the bin a week later.  Keep trying the be brave enough to give it to them.  silly as i give them dried raw chicken.

> Gulpers either keep them down or occasionally reacquaint themselves with them and enjoy them all over again.

tohme, they had wings and the gulper did bring it back up for another go.

I nearly brought something up too :(

Silly question just in case hubby ever goes away on business on an occasion where I can get to the supermarket (he's dead against raw), you would just buy a packet of chicken wings and hand them out? Or do you strip some of the meat off?

My dogs are small terriers and love the raw chicken wings.
No chopping, or stripping, just straight in to crunch and chew.
Love them................

Karen :)

If you look carefully, some packs of chicken wings have much smaller wings than others, so buy those if you are nervous :)

Daisy

> just buy a packet of chicken wings and hand them out?

Indeed.. If you've not given them before i'd do one at a time to see how they chew them. If they don't chew them and end up swallowing them whole then i'd not give them again.

I freeze mine and give them straight from the freezer.  He seems to cope fine with them and has to chew them rather than just gulp them down in one.

If you are feeding wings for the 1st time, I would hit them with a hammer to break up all the bones, it makes it a bit easier first time you feed them! My GSD used to walk quite sedately on the way back from his morning walk. He drags my hubbie all the way back now, because he is looking forward to his raw breakfast. He doesn't bolt his food & when I started Stanley the whippet I was a bit worried, as he does bolt his food. I have never had any problems though, nothing has ever come back up!

Or hold them with pliers to slow down gulpers

Oh well, maybe one day.... ;-)

You don't have to freeze raw chicken before feeding - straight from the supermarket is fine but remember to allow it time to reach room temperature

I thought all raw food had to have been frozen to kill off any bacteria?  I always cut the wings off fresh chickens I cook for us and freeze them until I have enough to give all the girls one!

I do also buy the supermarket ones and keep them in the freezer - have never fed them frozen though!

>I thought all raw food had to have been frozen to kill off any bacteria?

Nope - not necessary and certainly not if you are feeding human grade food. 

for beef mince it is necessary as there is a parasite present read this article and that should explain things more :-)

crikey,how sad!thanks for the warning!

i know it is a worry hence why i do the freeze thing...but it does make you wonder what WE actually consume without knowledge