I thought it must happen, as otherwise a breeder could end up with a house of a hundred to feed, and I don't condem it, providing like you said most find responsible, caring homes for these. Hopefully there are enough people like me to take these dogs on.

> As a 'keeper' I will if plans work out have 6 dogs by next year (who will be 13 1/2, 11 1/2, 7 1/2, 4 1/2, 2 1/2 and a puppy) fortunately I am happy to have a new pup about only every two to 4 years.

This is very organised and planned breeding, you obviously know your limits and time new arrivals, around the ages of the others. Which is very sensible. I hope things work out and you breed the best pup of your life.

Just 1 question, well 2 actually, do the stud owners have the first pick of the litter, if they want 1? 2nd question at what age and how can you tell which is this best pick of the litter?

Thanks

Picking puppies is educated guesswork. 

The better you know the traits of the dogs you are using (this includes the ancestors), and what they produce the better chance you have of breeding good litters, and then its the finer points that usually decide which you keep.  Having records, especially photographic of the ancestors at the same ages as the pups, seeing what they were like at that age and how they developed helps a lot.

Not unusual for different people to like a different puppy in a good litter, and several do equally well under different judges,a nd yet have nothing decent in a poor litter.

Breeders breed for themselves, so stud dog owners have as much chance of a puppy as anyone else AFTER the breeder chooses, so they may buy one of the p[pups or take one for the stud fee.

Stud gee pups tend only to be taken if the stud owner wants a puppy for themselves, though in breeds where the stud fee is much lower than the price of a puppy they may take a pup to sell on from a naive or uncaring breeder.  Good breeders home the pups to who they want, which may or may not be the stud dog owner.

Cheers me dears. :)

> Having records, especially photographic of the ancestors at the same ages as the pups, seeing what they were like at that age and how they developed helps a lot.
>

It's not as technical as I thought this breeding lark.

Let's just look at his dads pictures, back when he was young -
oh yeh, he has 2 eyes, 2 ears, 1 nose , 2 good legs too.
That'll do I'll pick this one. LOL

just kiddin.....

:) ;) i sat with my mouth open then lol

> just kiddin.....

Not really...;)

why dont you ask them to email you a phone number and then you can ask them all the questions you like and get more of an inkling of what type of peaple they are and you can ask THEM  all the questions you are worried about
i always ask enquiries to phone or me to phone them rather than email

> why dont you ask them to email you a phone number and then you can ask them all the questions you like and get more of an inkling of what type of peaple they are and you can ask THEM  all the questions you are worried about
> i always ask enquiries to phone or me to phone them rather than email

If this is to me? I don't do phones, I hide behind the pc screen.

I don't talk to people, heavens scary thought. :)

well  we are now on page 2 so dont know who origanaly asked question about someone enquiring about her puppies via e/mail and she was worried about the type of questions she was getting asked

looks like the vquestion was from annieg3
i think

> looks like the vquestion was from annieg3

Yeah it would be then, it was annieg3 who originally asked, you are quite right.

I found it a very interresting topic, not being a breeder myself, just an ordinary joe public dog owner, I wondered why breeders took offence at enquiries, just asking the price and nothing else.

But now I see the type of emails they get sent, I understand more.

well im a small time show and breeder last litter was 3 years ago and just think it better to follow up an email enquiry with a phone conversation much moe human and you can get better vibes by speaking to peole than emails but hey thats just me

Want to thank you Sian, as you're clearly wanting to learn. You don't show or breed and as a pet owner this will also help anyone else who is doing a search on here and will hopefully educate others.. In other words you have no hidden agenda and the responses have been informative...

Way to go CD'ers..

> Way to go CD'ers..

2nd that, the feedback I have from everyone is always very much appreciated by me, because I am interested, (uninformed myself, that I am) so I learn as I go on.

I just find more interest in certain topics that others, being an ordinary 1 owner, 1 dog household. I find looking in, from the outside, on doggy breeding, and showing interesting.

Thanks.

> well im a small time show and breeder last litter was 3 years ago and just think it better to follow up an email enquiry with a phone conversation much moe human and you can get better vibes by speaking to peole than emails but hey thats just me

No I agree,at least you take the time to be interested.

I was pleased to hear that some of you prefer to have too much information rather than not enough.
When ever I have spoken to people I think I tend to be trying to give them everying they could possibly want sometimes I really know I am rambling. Hate asking the money question  Think I had almost booked my last dog before I actually asked. Fortunately all other boxes were ticked both sides of the deal and that one was fine too
c
.I have also tried to get at least a ball park figure for any breed I may be considering before speaking seriously to people at least that way i know what to expect and what to I can afford

I think it was my final question just as I was about to put the phone down with my first dog! I wouldn't be bothered about someone asking the price as long as it wasn't the only thing they wanted to know!

Though we say about price and I do agree it shouldn't be the first question asked it must be hard for some people as in our breed some top breeders charge £850/ £900 and others charge £1200 upwards it depends on the kennel you go to, and with such a jump between prices I can understand why people ask.

And to be honest is a lot of money to flap around about and people just want to know where they stand.

I think its one of the last things i've asked about - cost.. I hate asking, it felt like it shouldn't matter if its a pup I really want.
On both cases I think I pretty much asked a week to a few days before collecting the pup on cost and how they'd like the money.

There you go, if prices can vary to such a degree (£850 to £1200 is quite a big difference), and the price is important to a buyer, then thay may be able to manage £850 but struggle to find £1200. So to these buyers having a quote straight away, is a priority. I suppose it's like anything else these days, people shop around for the best price. Not saying this is the right thing to do with dogs, but it probably happens. They may not realise that a £1200 dog, probably comes from a more experienced breeder and better bred from lines, but if they can only afford £850 then they will go with this option. As many buyers put their trust into breeders and rely on their experience and honesty, and expect the breeder to sell them a healthy, happy puppy.

> They may not realise that a £1200 dog, probably comes from a more experienced breeder and better bred from lines, but if they can only afford £850 then they will go with this option.

Not always the case though Sian. Some breeders maybe trying to make money full stop and price doesn't always reflect quality, some very very good breeders are doing it to improve their lines and not for the market of puppy buyers. In most cases it does, but you need to have an idea of the going rate for the breed, which is where contacting the breed club(joining it), asking questions and generally being nosey about the breed full stop is the way to go for starters of any new breed to an owner.
This is what I did and so glad I did. Spoke to people running the clubs and also rescue before I even got to start going to shows to speak to owners and breeders.

That sounds an incredible difference in price., but in my breed you would expect the same price give or take £50.

I know in some more numerous breeds the quality of the dogs and breeders varies far more and with some breeds there seem to be geographical differences in price, but I would not expect such a huge difference in price from one well bred litter to another surely???

After all the main variable in costs are the Vet fees.

The average is about £850 for well bred dog, there are many poorer examples that can be got for £300 but I wouldn't touch these with a barge pole, are the £1200 puppies better bred? I suppose on what you personally want do, I think that they are probably no more than a well thought out breeding or imported bloodlines for £900 ish it depends on what you want. 

Unfortunately Brainless there is a real jump between prices, this is where your homework comes into play and you become aware who has grossly inflated their prices.

I would have thought that anyone grossly inflating their prices would pretty soon find they had no-one wanting to buy their pet pups, after all after the first or second pick of each sex in a largish litter of the most wonderfully bred litter, would not be better than anyone Else's well reared pup.

People who want a puppy from a particular mating are far and few, and are the most likely to know what is what, and overcharging would be most unwise, especially if the pups turn out less well than hoped for. 

The wisest course surely is to charge a fair pet price for all puppies, and if they go on to do great things, it's a bonus.

I am embarking on an expensive mating in the near future, and if we get a litter the surplus pups will cost no more than any others even though it won't hope to cover the costs of getting them.

> Not always the case though Sian. Some breeders maybe trying to make money full stop and price doesn't always reflect quality,

That is why I said someone will pay £850 rather than £1200 because they still expect and trust the breeder will sell them a healthy and happy puppy regardless whether they are paying £850 or £1200.

I wouldn't expect joe public puppy buyer to consider contacting a breed club though, though this is very sensible.

I think I'll agree to disagree with many on this topic though, as I don't see the harm in a breeder supplying their asking price, if someone asks for it, whether by email or telephone, it wouldn't take too long in answering. But I understand the reasons why some opt not too, and that's fair enough.

> I wouldn't expect joe public puppy buyer to consider contacting a breed club though, though this is very sensible.
>

Now this is really where they should start.

It was the first place I thought of when deciding to have a dog, but then I had been involved in small pedigree livestock (Rabbits which I went on to breed and show), so it was logical for me to contact breed clubs.

The problem is that first time puppy buyers don't know that. When we started looking I just looked round my office and said 'I want a puppy, how do I find one?' and it was pure luck that someone said 'get a puppy pack from the KC' rather than 'they've got some at XX pet shop' or 'my neighbours aunt has some'.

> The problem is that first time puppy buyers don't know that.

but why don't they.

if your buying a new car you visit the main dealer etc, get brochures fro the manufacturer, consult which????

> if your buying a new car you visit the main dealer etc, get brochures fro the manufacturer, consult which????

I would say you see a car on the road, or on a tv ad that you like, and go visit your local dealer, which is the same thing to me as seeing a dog you like and visit your local breeder.

I can honestly say it has never occured to me to contact a breed club.

> So the question is this. As with Greyhounds, that eventually stop winning races, and are no longer any good to their owner are disposed of. Would the same thing happen if a promising show dog, didn't perform the way it was expected, would they pass the dog on? Does this happen? Thanks.

Not in all households.  I had bred a litter just for me - only 2 pups, so I didn't have to worry about selling, as I wanted the line, and really liked the stud dog that I used.

The bitch puppy turned out to be plain in head, and not suitable for the show ring.  I knew mum excelled head, and obviously knew the kennel whose dog I used.  Decided to keep her and see what she would produce for me later on.

The dog pup was a dream, gorgeous head, and turned out to have a smashing coat.  I was so excited.  He just grew and grew and grew!  Went way over size to show.  But, it was too late, I had kept him too long to let him go.  He is still here, and has a gorgeous temperament - how could I ever give him up?

That's a lovely story JeanSW.

Not here either. I got addicted to shows with my first dog, wanted something to take to the occasional show and not look too out of place, he won a CC, First at Crufts twice, ShCM, BIS at club show, etc etc. But my other dog never beat a dog at open level in his life so needless to say never wasted money on champ shows. He's hubby's dog really, but I would never get rid of him no matter what. Next dog was stunning when bought at 10 weeks, head turned quite plain and she was up to size particularly when a youngster. Improved with age and did well at open level. Current puppy again looks like having a plain head though mated her mum to the dog with the most beautiful head around (previous mating produced 2 boys with gorgeous heads but couldn't keep a boy so repeated the mating). But if she doesn't suddenly develop a wonderful head and go to Crufts, I would not get rid of her, she can have fun at open shows, companion shows, we dabble in obedience and rally, oh yes and there's her primary function as a lap warmer! :-)

Gosh, my original post has snowballed  into a variety of interesting topics. Had computer problems so just catching up.
Just an update on my original post. The person concerned emailed me again. Had obviously forgotten they had emailed before. I replied and asked about the carrier bit! She came back to me and said, she assumed I lived in England, so needed a price to ship pup to Aberdeenshire. I did reply but said that I wasnt comfortable with shipping a pup (I really couldnt do this to one of my pups) and pointed her to a couple of breeders I knew of nearer to her. Funnily enough, I did once have a buyer who lived in Aberdeen. She flew down to pic the pup up and hired a car to drive back. I know not everyone could afford to do this, but there we are. I did ask original enquirer to let me know how she gets on so feel a bit better about my not very positive original dissmissive attitude!!

That's a great outcome, that there. Perhaps a lesson to us all, if we don't totally understand something, don't jump to conclusions but ask for clarity.

> Funnily enough, I did once have a buyer who lived in Aberdeen. She flew down to pic the pup up and hired a car to drive back. I know not everyone could afford to do this, but there we are.

Same here.  I had a couple travel 1000 round trip twice from Argyll.  Once to view pup, and again to collect.  They stayed over close by at a hotel, and actually booked a stopover on the way home, a hotel that would allow a puppy in the room. 

> I had a couple travel 1000 round trip twice from Argyll

Wow!