Can anyone beat this for a crass puppy enquiry just received via email?:-

"Have you still got puppies for sale"?
Do you have a bitch
Can you give me your postcode so that I can get a cost for a pet carrier.
How much are your puppies
Can you send me a photo of the puppies!"

I am totally gobsmacked! I didnt enter into any correspondence with the writer, just said no but what was she going to do? Have the puppy sent by post??

I know of several people who have used pet couriers. I wouldn't use one personally, but it must work for some. :-(

The wording of the enquiry is perhaps not the best but I don;t see anything other than grammar/style wrong with it.

They wanted to know if you had puppies, the price, lcoation and what size crate they would need.

I would have replied on the lines of  'a breeder needs to know a lot more about you before considering you for their waiting list'. 

If it was one of those 'want it now no questions' asked enquiries you would hear no more back.

We often hear that breeders can be stuck up or fail to reply, perhaps this is just the impression created by such a situation.

> Can you give me your postcode so that I can get a cost for a pet carrier

It must be me being naive then because I am certainly not stuck up and always treat enquirers with respect. Well, nearly always, but its asking for the postcode in relation to the "cost of a pet carrier" I cant understand. What would the size of a crate have to do with my postcode?

I read it as them meaning 'courier' - ie, someone to fetch the puppy from you, rather than come and collect it themselves. This would be unacceptable for me.

Well you have read it differently, there may be lack of punctuation, or you may have read it correctly, but I would seek clarification, not assume the worst.

As for Couriers rather than Carriers as in containers/crates, as such services are being offered a naive potential buyer cannot be dismissed for not understanding that this would not be acceptable to a reputable breeder.

I agree that this could just be a language barrier problem, I had a buyer that doesn't sound too hot on the emails but once we spoke on the phone and exchanged photo's and references from breed clubs from their end  and then weeks and weeks of talking then it became clear that their written english wasn't as good as their spoken.

But if you don't feel right about the person then dont sell to them.

I had a e mail yesterday that was immeadiately deleted.Started dear breeder,saw my e mail site - I have none appart from CD and have never ever advertised pups.Wanted a puppy as wife wanted a puppy(no mention of breed),previous dog taken by cousin.Grammar appauling,like broken English .Sounded like a spam enquiry that I get from time to time.

I did read it as courier (oops!)

If it is carrier then I would hope they would ask the size they needed. I had one buyer turn up with a plastic carrier that would have done the pup at 4 weeks, not the 13 weeks that he was He had to get a replacement before taking the pup.

> I read it as them meaning 'courier' - ie, someone to fetch the puppy from you

Well that is how I read it. I cant make it into anything else, no matter how I try. I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt when people initially sound a bit odd. I have a lady now who came over as extremely dubious. She wouldnt give me her landline number and said they never used it. In the end, she did give it to me and it turned out that she was thinking along the same lines as I was. She was a bit shy of giving her phone number to a perfect stranger. Turned out to be an extremely lovely woman when I met her in the flesh and will be a totally fine owner for pup.

> Well that is how I read it. I cant make it into anything else,

It says Carrier though.

I have a carrier company collect from me daily, Interlink Express. Logistics companies like this one, DHL and City Link for example are called carriers or couriers it depends. I don't know if they collect or deliver animals though. Perhaps there are specialist animal carries/couriers. This could explain needing the post code for costing purposes.

I would politely make it clear (a) sending the puppy by courier is not an option, you need to meet the prospective new owners in person both when deciding whether to let them have one and when they pick up the puppy, and (b) you need a lot more information to begin with before considering them. It's not that bad though.

> I don't know if they collect or deliver animals though. Perhaps there are specialist animal carries/couriers. This could explain needing the post code for costing purposes.

Yes, there are. While I would not use one for any living creature, it seems quite the norm for reptile enthusiasts and some small-animal folk to use their services.

> just said no

At least you bothered to reply, even if it was a 'no'.
I e-mailed a  breeder whose name i got off the breed club website  to say that i was looking for a pup in about 10 months time and should i put my name on a list now or contact her nearer the time . I didn't get a reply at all. I don't know if she's changed her e-mail address, is too busy to reply or is just ignoring me !

> I didn't get a reply at all. I don't know if she's changed her e-mail address, is too busy to reply or is just ignoring me !

Or her ISP has put your email into their Spam folder.

I only knew this happened when some folks I do have regular correspondence with asked why I had not replied.

it seems quite random, but mails that get put in there often are addressed to more than one person, or have attachments etc, but I cannot find any real logic, though they do catch a lot of the Spam (still get some though) but unfortunately some of the messages I do want.

Also many people will delete mails with unfamiliar senders, no subject line or those subject lines just saying hello etc as those often have been linked to viruses.

Too true Brainless, one of yours went into my spam folder and it was one in a string with the same subject so why I have no idea but yours are not alone I have all sorts of mail I always open finding there way into the spam folder whilst invitations to all sorts of devious web sites are delivered with no trouble at all.

Yes, the same happened to one of my waiting list. I had sent several emails to her but she thought I was ignoring her. Then I got a frantic phone call to say all my mail had gone into her spam folder. Luckily she didnt miss out on the pup and all ended well.
I think I have to hold my hands up here. Apart from the "carrier" point which I would not allow for one of my pups, I think I have been a bit harsh. I really believe I have been spoilt or very lucky because every enquiry I have had up to now (three litters) have been with full information about family work etc. I think I have got a brain set of expecting that from everyone. I have yet to receive a one line enquiry.  I will not expect the "best" from enquirers in future, until I have enquired further into their circumstances. Thanks for that!

PS I suppose thats because I ask for full details in my ad!!

I suppose from an enquirers point of view they might just want to check availability etc first before even thinking of writing a long introduction of themselves.

I have had one liners before (are you planning a litter in the foreseeable future) and after replying got lots and lots of good info. 

I have also had the other kind where you know your request for more info is ignored as they probably realised you will want to ask more than they are willing to say, or it's a scam mail.

Yes and another problem is you cant put any emotion into text. The questions seemed to be sort of "fired" out but it might be someone who is not comfortable with words. Not everyone who is a suitable doggy owner is good at tact or grammar etc. I think I have learned a lesson here.

>Yes and another problem is you cant put any emotion into text. The questions seemed to be sort of "fired" out but it might be someone who is not comfortable with words. Not everyone who is a suitable doggy owner is good at tact or grammar etc. I think I have learned a lesson here.

If you've now changed your mind about their email you are being very generous.  I don't think it would have been beyond anyone's language or writing skills to offer a degree of courtesy - a simple hello to open and thank you to close is not an unreasonable expectation.

> a simple hello to open and thank you to close is not an unreasonable expectation.

But in this modern Text Message and email world there is not that level of formality in communication.

A polite reply asking for more info does no harm, and if nothing else shows that you have good/better manners.

im getting emails at the mo for a litter ive planed when my girl comes into season ,up to yet all of them ( 6) have told me alot about themselfs ,their familys and why thay want a pup from me, most have been to see our dogs ,but 2 of the emails i did get just asked the price i didnt bother emailing them back if thats all their botherd about!

A little education does no harm, might make them think and spare a pup a poor start with people impulse buying.

Whilst there are obviously utter nutters, spammers and time wasters out there..

I think if someone has found a decent breeder (ie, you!) give them the benefit of the doubt over the initial style of their contact email. From the potential new owners point of view, a lot simply have NO idea how to find a good breeder nor what to ask, its something most people either chance upon accidentally OR come to after having gotten things 'wrong' with the previous dog/s.

When I email a breeder I don't ever ask the price, even though it is relevant to me - whilst I can afford the going rate for most breeds I could not summon up that sum of money at the drop of a hat and it would be awful for everyone involved for me to assume that a pup would be say £600.. to find out at the last minute its actually £800. So although I don't ask... because I think its a bit rude and its not the most important question going, I can see why people do ask.

I am always torn between keeping things concise and to the point, and rambling on about my dogs/household/lifestyle... after all if the breed has no pups and no intention of breeding in the near future, do they really want to read half a page of waffle about the life and times of the dogs in Theemx household?

I generally DO end up waffling... I am a waffly sort of person (as any breeder who I have phoned has found out!) but I am always worried as to what I should and shouldnt say in my initial email.

If any breeders could set out waht they do/do not want to know/be asked in an initial contact that would be really handy!

Hi theemx :) you have some very good points in your post!
familys that email me do ask the price but also ask other things too ,i just dont like to be asked the price and thats it ,i think its an very importent question but not just that x

> i just dont like to be asked the price and thats it ,i think its an very importent question but not just that x

Some people may not want to waste too much of your time, if the asking price is far more than they can afford. So better to know this than take up alot of your time only for them not to afford a pup after all.

You wouldn't take a car out for a test drive for example, using your time, and the salesmans time up, if you didn't have an idea of the retail price. I know cars are not live animals, but similar scenario all the same.

i dont see it that way ,i dont mind being asked the price  even if they dont give me much info ,but to get a email saying ,how much for a pup! sorry but i not bother replying.ive only ever had 2 like this , if i got anymore like this i still wouldnt answer it! i dont feel people are wasting my time ,i wouldnt ever send a email asking the price and not putting anything eles ,imo

Yeh, your probably correct, I don't breed myself, so not sure of the type of emails you look for, to see which are genuine or not.

Cheers

Sian

I think a lot of the people who ask 'how much for a pup' and say nothing else, may well not be the sort of buyer you want.. but some will be and just will be the kind of people who have saved a certain amount, and dont want to waste anyones time if its out of their price range.

Dont forget you and I may well know the typical price for a pup (i dont... actually, I would hazard a guess for most breeds between £400 and £900) but some ofthese buyers wouldnt have a clue and for them, setting out personal details, asking further questions, in their minds is travelling down the road of comitting themselves to something they have no idea if they are actually in a position to have.

At the risk of a few minutes of wasted time responding to initial enquiries that merely ask the price, you COULD save a fair few people going down the route of a puppy farmer who DOESNT care that that is their first question - after all many of these people will go with the person who responds to them first.. if thats you, great. If its Joe Puppy Farmer... not so great.

Totally 100% agree. Some of these breeders obviously can afford not to supply/or answer emails because they have long waiting lists, so can be choosy to who they sell to. However they then might moan about other avenues where you can buy dogs from, but where else is joe public going to buy one from if that is their only option. Not everyone sees Mr puppy farmer as a rogue selling dodgy gear, they just want a dog sooner rather than later for kiddies birthday.

> At the risk of a few minutes of wasted time responding to initial enquiries that merely ask the price, you COULD save a fair few people going down the route of a puppy farmer who DOESNT care that that is their first question - after all many of these people will go with the person who responds to them first.. if thats you, great. If its Joe Puppy Farmer... not so great.

That was the point I wasn't making very well :)

> they have long waiting lists,

I always want to steer people to a good source for a p-guppy, especially if I can't help them I can hopefully put them in touch with someone who can.

Hopefully more and more breeders do this, for the sake of future lines and the dog buying public.
I can't see any reason why a breeder wouldn't pass on buyers, you don't get greedy breeders do you, or jealous ones who want all the buyers to themselves? like you would in the retail trade.

> I am always torn between keeping things concise and to the point, and rambling on about my dogs/household/lifestyle... after all if the breed has no pups and no intention of breeding in the near future, do they really want to read half a page of waffle about the life and times of the dogs in Theemx household?
>

You would definitely get a response from me to your waffling!  Too much info is better than none!

I just got back off hols tonight, to find an email - Have you got pups - how much?

No indication that they even know my name.  My reply says, I already have vetted people on my waiting list. 

> I can't see any reason why a breeder wouldn't pass on buyers, you don't get greedy breeders do you, or jealous ones who want all the buyers to themselves?

You shouldn't do because breeders worthy of the name are not breeding to supply or create a market, but breed to meet the needs of their breeding program, the purpose of which is breed improvement/maintenance and future show or working dogs, in which number will be some that will fulfil other roles instead of or in addition to the primary aim of the breeding.

> You shouldn't do because breeders worthy of the name are not breeding to supply or create a market, but breed to meet the needs of their breeding program, the purpose of which is breed improvement/maintenance and future show or working dogs

I see, for your breed especially, I should imagine this is the case, and many others. However there are many breeds that are just mass market, not for showing necessarily, but in many cases just supplied as family pets. But still these will be reputable, responsible breeders too, so I take your point, it is nothing like normal retail trade, where the supplier willl try and sell something else if they have no stock of a particular item, or take a deposit to secure the sale themselves, so another retailer doesn't benefit.

i too ALWAYS pass people to other breeders if i dont have a litter ,i only have 1 or 2 ayear. its jsut the"how much i carnt get my head round" i dont charge over priced for my pups ,i just think ive been very lucky with the people who email me :)

I dont think Ive ever emailed to enquire about a pup tbh, Ive always tried to find out the telephone number as even if a website looks very professional and colourful, I prefer to actually speak to the breeder and have a two way conversation :)  However if I was to email, I think my first one would be very much an introduction, such as Hello, I have been looking at your website and am very interested in your lines and I just wondered if you had any puppies available or planned.  Kindest regards etc.  Then if/when I got a reply, then I could volunteer information about my family and circumstances and also ask the price (politely, obviously).  Its pointless writing out a life history if the breeder doesnt intend to ever have another litter and their website was shelved months ago.

I'm just wondering who exactly, other than puppy purchasers would ask the price? Therefore why wouldn't the breeder just offer the price with a quick email answer?
Do breeders receive dodgy emails from people, such as puppy farmers enquiring about the up to date asking price, or something?

The trouble is that, to a reputable breeder, the puppies are far more than just a commodity with a price, like a pair of shoes. There's an emotional attachment, and an enquiry that simply asks the price gives the impression that the potential new owner doesn't feel the same way. Basically, it's insulting and hurtful.

I put my current litter on the Kennel Club puppy list (never advertised before but she had a bigger litter than I had expected and a couple of people dropped off the waiting list). Interestingly, I've only had one enquiry and that was on the day it appeared. It was a very brief phone call just to ask the price and to ask for some pictures. Never heard from him again, not even a thanks for the pics. Four weeks later, the person has their own litter advertised on the site (I recognised the email address) so they were just doing their own market research!

> There's an emotional attachment, and an enquiry that simply asks the price gives the impression that the potential new owner doesn't feel the same way.

I know what you mean, but the buyer probably doesn't have the attachment the breeder has until they have seen a dog possibly. But I understand now where the breeder is coming from

Thanks jeangenie

> Four weeks later, the person has their own litter advertised on the site (I recognised the email address) so they were just doing their own market research!

I wondered if this happened too. Hope they didn't use your pictures.

Thanks

> But still these will be reputable, responsible breeders too,

Not in my book. 

> Not in my book.

No, I don't think they are either well not most anyway, but I didn't want to offend.

There should be a purpose for breeding beyond that of purely reprodcution.

We all know there are puppy farmers (dreadful terrible we cry) and people who bred with high ideals for show or work (often potential owner thinks oh I only want a pet so I don't need to source such a breeder).

They go to someone with  pet bitch who they have mated to a dog up the road, or even a show/working dog whose owner is not too fussy.

Pet buyer thinks this is the ideal, lovingly reared in the home probably with other pets and kids, this is how most of the above breeders rear too, few having large kennels or purpose built facilities.

Unfortunately it is likely this breeder has very little background knowledge or practical knowledge to impart to the new puppy owner.  They are unlikely to be concerned with or know the quality of the pups they are producing and will rarely have done any parental health testing.

Statistically the largest number of dogs is bred by this category of breeder and responsible for the most dogs in rescue.  They do not know how to vet homes well, and are not likely to take back or even hear about any of their pups ending up in rescue.

Not quite with topic but topical all the same. Hopefully I don't tread on anyones toes with this question that follows a little passage. But if anyone can answer, I would be grateful.

I purchased my GSD in December, from finding him off the internet. I didn't want to start with a puppy because of long working hours, so I thought I would take on one of the many dogs that need rehoming.
I sat in work one morning searching and searching for the right one, and I found him.
His owner had not had him long, and already had a litter from Duke, he tried to sell me one of the pups too.
Bearing in mind Duke was only approx 14 - 16 months old himself he had a droopy ear, and not long after I took him home (I couldn't get him from this house quick enough) he had a recurring bout of panosteitis.

Anyway, the first owner that had Duke again not for very long, I believe was planning to show him. Duke has been trained to an amazing high standard of obedience, that they must have spent hours on him. I think they had all intensions to show him only, with the ear problem, I wonder if this ruined his chances.

So the question is this. As with Greyhounds, that eventually stop winning races, and are no longer any good to their owner are disposed of. Would the same thing happen if a promising show dog, didn't perform the way it was expected, would they pass the dog on? Does this happen? Thanks.

I suppose the short answer is Yes it does, sometimes.

Some people will run on several pups to an age when you can be reasonably sure whether it will make a top flight show dog, and those that don't will be sold on usually at under a year old, usually for a nominal sum.

There are people in the show and working world that retire dogs after they have gone s far as they can showing and/or done what was wanted in their breeding program.

In this day and age it is rare for exhibitors or those working their dogs to be as clinical as that (most consider their dogs family not livestock), and there are probably more who keep their dogs lifelong, and only re-home for special reasons and for the dogs benefit.

For example and older breeder still wishing to steer their line and breed may decide that they will only keep  limited number of dogs for good because of their age (not wanting to leave lots of dogs for someone to care for when they die).  Two of my mentors fitted into this category, both would allow some of their dogs to retire to friends and former puppy buyers who had become friends.  When they died one had two old dogs and two younger ones that arrangements for homes had been in place in case.  the other only had two left.

As a 'keeper' I will if plans work out have 6 dogs by next year (who will be 13 1/2, 11 1/2, 7 1/2, 4 1/2, 2 1/2 and a puppy) fortunately I am happy to have a new pup about only every two to 4 years.

If I wanted a new one to show each year or both sexes I would either have to run on (have never been able to part with one once kept to showing age) and only keep one in three, retire older dogs (couldn't do that personally) or keep around 20 dogs.

If I was visiting an established breeder who had been breeding for more than a generation or two I would be very worried if there were no older or retired dogs.