Following on from Esme's two misses to the same dog I am currently looking for a different stud dog to use when she next comes into season.

I've whittled the list down to half a dozen dogs which I feel suit her well and am visiting each of them (and using loads of petrol travelling all over the country!). But I have a couple of questions that I'd like you more experienced lot to help me with.

One dog I like has sired 6 good-sized litters, is 10 years old and hasn't been used since 2006. Is his fertility still likely to be good?

Another hasn't yet been used. Would you risk using him on a bitch that hasn't managed to conceive?

Am I better to use a well used stud of 4-7ish years old? Is fertility/quality of sperm improved with use or is a heavily used dog likely to be firing less good quality sperm (what I'm trying to say is would his sperm need time between matings to replenish, if that makes sense).

Would it not be possible to ask the owner of the 10 year old to have him sperm tested? If he is your number 1 choice it may be the way to go. If one of my boys had not been used for a few years I would be happy to have him tested.

same has crinklecut....but if it turns out no good ,why not try the unused boy? we have our own boy we used him to our girl 5months ago and got 3 pups (this was down to our girl) we had a bitch come to him and she had 12 pups but 1 died before it was born ,so if the dog not yet used compleyments your girl i say go for it! a dog needs at least 24h inbetween mateing girls to replenish so to speak x

If you like the progeny produced by the older dog, for me the fact that he is still fit and well at ten is a positive point in his favour. If it was me, I would ask the owner to have him fertility tested and, if the result is favourable, I would use him. I have used a couple of older, underused stud dogs and have had great results. The fact that a dog is well used would put me off.

Went to a stud talk once by Lynne Hennessey. She says that actually sperm is delivered in two batches and that it is a fallacy that once the sperm is 'used up' that it needs time to replenish. The sperm is only 'used up' after two matings and that the second 'batch' of sperm is actually the best.

Can't give you any advise on the dog I would go to the dog that compliments my bitch the best.

The fact that a dog is well used would put me off.

That's interesting - could you say why?

>The fact that a dog is well used would put me off.

>That's interesting - could you say why?

In my breed we have a small gene pool and a dog that is well used makes that gene pool smaller. I think that a limit shoud be put on the number of either pups or litters that a dog should be allowed to sire.

In larger gene pools it wouldn't create such a problem as their will always be new bloodlines to look into.

The FCI in it's breeding strategies policy document http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/29-2010-annex-en.pdf advises:

"As a general recommendation no dog should have more offspring than equivalent to 5% of the number of puppies registered in the breed population during a five-year period."

This is quite a useful guide when thinking of how your particular plans may affect the breed as a whole.

In my breed this would mean that no dog should sire more than 23 puppies in his life. 

With an average of 6 in a litter that is 4 litters, so a stud owner would really need to think carefully and be very fussy as to which bitches were allowed to come to him.

I owned in partnership an imported dog who sired 8 litters , doesn't sound a lot, but now a high proportion of the available gene pool have him as sire, grand sire or great grand sire.

It's a little over simplistic as the effect of an individual does depend a lot on how many of their offspring go on to be bred from themselves

i know you have mentioned the boy has sired 6 good size litters but the boy does not determine the litter size :-)

"As a general recommendation no dog should have more offspring than equivalent to 5% of the number of puppies registered in the breed population during a five-year period."
"In my breed this would mean that no dog should sire more than 23 puppies in his life."

That's very interesting, so in my very popular breed that would actually be 2000 puppies!! At a  generous 10 per litter that would be 200 litters. Certainly in recent years even the dogs I would have considered very well used come nowhere near that, with only a handful siring over 100 litters - certainly food for thought.

The 5% is a limit, not a target! ;-)

lol - I realise that, but some of our dogs are very well used and I was pleased to see that actually they hadn't exceeded that figure!!!

Don't think there are many dogs that would reach it as a "target" is there?

> i know you have mentioned the boy has sired 6 good size litters but the boy does not determine the litter size

What I was meaning was he has only sired 6 litters and each was a good size. But he hasn't been used since 2006. I know it's the bitch that determines litter size (unless of course the boy has a problem).

Hi pedlee is there a time limit on your girl? could you try with his boy and if she dont chatch use a different dog next time? maybe by then the other boy may have been used but his offspring will still be young to see how they turn out!

She was 3 in August, so not old by any means and her seasons fall regularly at about 8 months apart.  But I certainly don't want to get to 4 1/2 or 5 and she still hasn't conceived.

yes ,if it was me and that boy is the 1 i set my heart on id try him ,if you dont get pups this time with him then make sure you have different stud already in place maybe...sorry im not much help am i LOL x