If you enter your dog in the Veteran class should you expect the judge to ask the age of the dog? After all there can be a lot of difference between 7-10+ years in some breeds.

You would think just as they should/do in puppy and also the other age related classes.

A show at the weekend I was asked the age of one dog but not the other, in 2 different classes, neither age related.. Maybe the judge forgot??

The judge does not have to ask the age in any class...it is obvious that a minor puppy class they are 6-9 months equally a veteran class it is obvious they are over 7. It is purely up to the judge to ask the age, as an aid to access each dog. Personally I tend to not as the age after the junior or yearling but i would ask again in the veteran class.

Think you often ask the age to put the dog at ease a short conversation with their handler reassures the dog you are about to touch, I don't ask in open assuming that the animals in that class have experience, that may not be the case, but ask in other classes if I think the dog is unsettled which means I may ask for some and not for others however I always ask in age classes.

I would hope to be asked in any age class, but it doesn't always happen. The judge doesn't have to, it just seems a good idea so you can relate the condition and movement of each animal to its age - the 12 year old might be a better specimen considering age than the 7 year old next to it.

Interesting point - should the judge be putting up the best specimen or the best for its age?

The best specimen, in the puppy you would allow a puppy coat but in veteran what would you be allowing for?

I think finding out the age is important myself.  I showed a girl at a few weeks short of 15 not many years ago, she definitely didn't look her age at all.  So in reality you should look at both, that they all fit the breed standard an the differences that an age gap of 7 years would be!  Have to say my girl was still moving like a dream on the day.  Sadly she got stomach cancer only a few weeks after the show.

should the judge be putting up the best specimen or the best for its age?

The best specimen I would sincerely hope BUT if there are two equally good and one is older or looks less aged I think that should go in its favour. There's a lot of veterans shown in my breed at the moment (and in fact 3 I can think of winning tickets as veterans this year), and some look years older than others the same age.

In Veteran you are looking for the dog nearest to the standard, being old really makes no difference. There are 3 things I may make allowances for, white hair on the muzzle, teeth slightly dropped forward and in males castration otherwise you are looking for the same thing you were in open. If you ask the age it would or should not be used in the assessment as one can't excuse faults because of age and you are not awarding longevity.

I would have thought you might need to allow for things like a missing tooth, white hair, loss of cushioning under the eyes, possible slight stiffness (not lameness or bad movement). But I'm no expert! I've also seen club shows in American cockers where they show veterans with puppy cuts rather than full show coats.

>The best specimen, in the puppy you would allow a puppy coat but in veteran what would you be allowing for?

The thing is you are judging the dogs against the standard not one another so if one has a missing tooth and the other does not then the one with complete dentition is as stated in the standard the one with a missing tooth is not. However if the tooth was removed because of an accident and the handler has permission to show the missing tooth is then ignored.

Veteran classes are not to award those who have weathered well nor should particular allowance be made for age but just as you expect a puppy to be showing signs of its age, puppy coat or perhaps bum high you expect the veteran to have a white muzzle and looser pasterns but you will still be looking for a typical example that is close to the standard allowing for natural signs of age but non functioning parts or missing ones are not ignored although for me castration would be.

How you present your exhibit in the ring is up to you, clips or cuts may be suggested but are never compulsory so if a dog is shown in puppy clip that is not a problem or at least it would not be for me, mind you my breed is shown in its natural state no matter what the age.

Some interesting points, thankyou.

If the judge asks the age of some veterans in the class and not others (regardless of other points) it's not very consistent though!

If the judge asks the age of some veterans in the class and not others (regardless of other points) it's not very consistent though!

There could be a good few reasons why the judge would ask some and not other, could be the dog looks very old or reluctant and the judge is worried about health or just a chance for the judge to catch their breath or to relax a dog, it is probably not because they wish to know the age for any reason to do with their judging decision.

Surely though if it's only due to a tooth a dog of 14 that's exactly the same as the dog at 7 should have a good chance?  Sorry I will always ask age and that will be part of my assessment especially if it looks as good and as fit as the 7 year old and if it does then I must admit I'd go for the one double the age.

Well it all depends on the situation, I am not a tooth counter but if a dog had rotten or missing teeth the age would not be a factor, some dogs have good teeth to the end and other do not if you are entering a contest knowing the standard then you take your chance if you have a dental problem that someone else is worse. Of course a missing tooth would not be as important as lameness but as I would not excuse a lame dog because it was 14 neither would I excuse a gross mouth but accept I probable would not notice a single tooth.

With the dog in question teeth/bite all in order and had recently had a dental so that wouldn't be the issue. He has recently been castrated but would this matter at 10+? At least one other dog in the class was castrated.

Maybe all will be revealed in the critique!

Some muscle wastage and possibly dropping their tails in our breed as well as the head becoming more gaunt (wouldn't expect any of these in the under 10 bracket in our breed).

My 14 year old that I showed, for only the third time ever in her life LOL, still had all of her teeth although the bottom front ones had been worn down after years of tearing up tennis balls and chewing through bones LOL!

I would not put up an older dog if it had horrible teeth etc.  I was just saying that if a dog was double the age of the other and almost identical in every way I think I would put that one up, but like everything it all depends on the situation on that day.

Agree with Perrodeagua, sometimes I feel specially at companion shows that they just put up the oldest dog regardless. I judge novelty classes occasionally and I do remember one occasion where one dog was much older than the rest, but she really could barely walk anymore - still looked cheerful and happy to be there. But she was in pretty poor condition generally and I didn't place her, which I got the impression was not a popular decision! But yes, if I had 2 dogs in similar condition and standard-wise, I would probably go for the one who was perhaps 3 or 5 years older and still in as good a condition as the younger one.

Henry won several veteran classes at companion, open and club level and I was pleased and surprised as he was only a 'young' veteran, he died at just over 8 years old suddenly.

I must say I do like looking at the veteran classes though they are few and far between in our breed which is heart breaking. Im not a judge so boo boo me if you will.... Id put up the dog that best represent the breed regardless of age, if the dog is older and in great condition Id merit it a place, however would I give BOB or the CC to a puppy over an older dog probably not as the puppy can change.

Though I said id place on best representation, I think that age is a factor for instance with a 4 year old dog you pretty much got the finish product but say an 18 month old it could look and move completely differently in a year or so time as the dog is still growing. In retrospect age is an important factor.