I thought this was now illegal!  But, it seems that huntsmen are still going out with dogs for the purpose of hunting foxes.

This morning I went into my conservatory to see a group of cows on my drive.  They had come 250' up from the main road through the village and were stomping around my car!

I rushed out to shut the front gates to stop them getting back on the main road and then started ringing around the nearby farms for whoever owned them.

A neighbouring farmer came down with his wife knowing from the description that they weren't his but to see if he could identify whose they were.

It seems there was a hunt on and his own dairy herd had already been spooked through 2 of his own fields.  These dairy cattle are his livlihood but these huntsment don't give a damn.

It seems the cows on my drive had come from other pastureland, broken out of their field because the hunt had gone through it.

They had come approx. a mile down lanes, turned onto the  main road through the village before finding refuge on my front lawn!  What a wreck there could have been if they had been hit by a car on the narrow lanes.

After a phone call or two the farmer found their owner who had to drive over to get them.  We've no idea if there were others loose.

It seems the huntsmen were after foxes.  This farmer told me that most farmers don't have a problem with foxes anyway - the huntsmens do far more damage to land, fences and livestock than foxes ever do.

But what is happening here?  Isn't it supposed to be illegal.  How are these arrogant lawbreakers getting away with this?

Who would have paid the damage if these spooked cows stampede our cars, smashed the glass conservatory, caused an RTA.

The hunt  has already been banned from riding through another neighbours land but if the dogs go in they won't call off a fox if they get the scent and the riders still follow suit.  Huntsmen = selfish, destructive idiots who think they are so important they are above the law.  Give me a fox anyday. 

I think you have to be very careful in stating they were fox hunting as where is your proof and where is your proof that the Hunt caused the cattle to spook and break out ?

You will find most farmers have no issues with the Hunt going on their land and you will find that majority are very well versed on the countryside and how people should treat it. A herd of cattle on a field will cause just as much damage if not more to a field than a group of horses and hounds passing through a field :-)

I would also say that the farmer also has a responsibilty to make sure the field containing cattle is of sufficient security for well maintained fences and hedgerows to secure a herd of cattle in.

I doubt they would be stupid enough to actually be Fox-hunting, as at the moment it is still unlawful, I would think they were drag chasing, it is possible that they put up a fox but unless that was the intention it was not hunting foxes.

Sorry but you are wrong.  The farmers round here do not want hunts on their land and have problems keeping them out.  But no hunt should go on any land that doesn't belong to them as it is trespassing which in this country is against the law as is fox hunting.  Some people just chose to think that the laws of the land don't apply to them.

Yes, the farmer does have an obligation to fence his land to contain his livestock but if huntsmen go through and break hedges and leave gates open it is not the farmers responsibility.

As i also said, it was the farmer who came down to help identify the cattle who said there was a hunt on - they had been in his land already so knew exactly what they were doing and why.

Hunts can still operate within the law; some take a bird of prey with them to kill the fox that's been flushed out, which is perfectly legal. Some have a man with a rifle to shoot the fox.

if they were trail hunting, as we unfortunately have to do for now, then they have to get written permission from all the land owners whose land they cross. Thats the rules (unless you are in scotland).

which hunt is it you are talking about please?

I was going to say the same as Sam, you need the land owners permission to cross it. We've always been asked and they've never come on without permission.
Also they do drag hunting around here and its still very popular with the hunt folk.

I would think they were drag chasing, it is possible that they put up a fox but unless that was the intention it was not hunting foxes.

I understand what you are saying but I know my neighbour opposite has had trouble with hunts on her land both before and since the ban.

She has repeatedly told hunts she does not want them on her land but when the dogs go in the riders follow.

And if they have put down a trail and the dogs put up a fox and follow it they WILL trespass whether the land owner has given permission or not because neither the fox nor the dogs understand the prohibition!

Whichever, It was a shock to find cattle on my front drive and no coincidence i'm sure that a hunt just happened to be taking place in the immediate vicinity.

Sam has pretty much broached what came to my mind, there is a 'code of conduct' as much professional as gentlemanly.
  Susieque, if you are in possession of facts rather than supposition then the Hunt can (and should) be reported and also to the governing body (most of whom are part of) Master of Foxhounds Assoc. <- click link.
  >Huntsmen = selfish, destructive idiots who think they are so important<

I'm really saddened to read this comment, My father was a Huntsman and Master where I grew up in the Lake District I remember long cold afternoons spent with fell pack followers repairing Dry stone walls (<- fell packs are on foot not horseback, we were not repairing 'hunt damage' but damage by tourists/walkers/ the odd drunken local ;-)) Picking up discarded coke cans and crisp packets and giving first aid and proper weather gear to ill prepared lost walkers! We did this as a collective of people all an integral part of the countryside all helping each other out, but would often do 'working parties' where everyone got together to give some time back to the country and famers and keeping it looking like country!

It's such a shame when folk tar all with the same brush... :-(

>Hunts can still operate within the law; some take a bird of prey with them to kill the fox that's been flushed out

really, I didnt know this ? what bird of prey do they use ? it must be huge !

Sorry but you are wrong.  The farmers round here do not want hunts on their land and have problems keeping them out.  But no hunt should go on any land that doesn't belong to them as it is trespassing which in this country is against the law as is fox hunting.  Some people just chose to think that the laws of the land don't apply to them.

Then they need to contact the police then and go through the proper channels as said by other people they have to get permission to ride on the land.

How many farmers are you talking about in the scale of the area as is it a minority or a majority ?

I haven't done a head count but round here all farming is livestock so I would bet that not many would want hounds and riders on their land, it is too disruptive which is why I was surprised to hear that they are still going on.

I hadn't seen the hunt but my farmer neighbour who came down to help me with the cattle had.

>what bird of prey do they use ?

Mainly eagle owls.

EAGLE OWLS

Going off topic. How do they 'transport' a bird of that size around with a fast moving hunt, or keep the hounds off once the owl has brought a fox down?

wow

> Going off topic. How do they 'transport' a bird of that size around with a fast moving hunt, or keep the hounds off once the owl has brought a fox down?

That's my thought too. I can't quite see it, somehow.

Susieque, if you are in possession of facts rather than supposition then the Hunt can (and should) be reported and also to the governing body (most of whom are part of) Master of Foxhounds Assoc. <- click link.
  >Huntsmen = selfish, destructive idiots who think they are so important<

I have absolutely no reason to think this man was making up a complete fabrication.  He said he had seen the hunt going across the neighbouring land.

I do know that another neighbour has had problems in the past, on several occasions.   It stands to reason that no matter that a trail has been left for the hounds, if they turn up a fox they are going to follow it no matter where it goes and if that's on other peoples land then they are trespassing.  It is naieve at the very least of huntsmen to think they can use drag hunting as an acceptable sport but not end up with their hounds chasing foxes.

The responsibility for farmers to keep livestock within their own land is just that - to keep them in their own land so posts and wire fencing, hedges and low stone walls are the way.  It is not a farmers responsibility to keep intruders (other dogs) out.  That is the responsibility of the dog owners so the huntsment should not allow their dogs to get in with livestock.  But, how do they stop a pack of hounds on a scent? 

Not only do we have dairy herds here we have loads of sheep farming.  A farmer is within his rights to shoot dogs that get in with their livestock but how do they protect their animals from a pack of hounds?

There may be farming communities who don't mind hunts if they have land left fallow/resting or in crop rotation systems but livestock farming is not the same.  I am surprised that any hunting of any sort ocurrs in this location as it is most inappropriate given the nature of the farming but it seems these hunts are still being organised here. 

Luckily we don't farm but I'm sure those here who do must know what their rights are and what course of action they can take retrospectively but that didn't help the cattle who ended up in my garden this morning nor any others who were disrupted by these events.

I'm afraid that I also know a couple of sheep farmers who have repeatedly told our local hunt to stay of their land, only to find their instructions ignored.  Another time, one of my neighbours (not a farmer, just a domestic residence with a decent-sized garden) looked out of his window one day to find the hounds in his garden killing a deer, with members of the hunt watching on.  They'd caused quite a bit of damage to the garden getting in, as well.

>There may be farming communities who don't mind hunts if they have land left fallow/resting or in crop rotation systems but livestock farming is not the same.

The livestock farmers here would prefer the hunt to come through than dogs or foxes! The hounds are trained to ignore livestock and are much safer around them than the huge majority of dogs!

>How do they 'transport' a bird of that size around with a fast moving hunt, or keep the hounds off once the owl has brought a fox down?

Sometimes in a box on the back of a quad bike, the same as they do the terriers. The hounds will be called off when the bird is released; they're not slavering beasts!

I'm afraid that I also know a couple of sheep farmers who have repeatedly told our local hunt to stay of their land, only to find their instructions ignored.

It's not just limited to my locale then.

This is really difficult not to be critical of hunting because if your only experiences are negative then this is how you 'perceive' the hunt.

I found the events of yesterday quite worrying as I've no experience of being around cattle.  My only interaction is having them in the field that adjoins mine and seeing them driven up and down the lanes when they're being moved from one grazing arear to another.  They are then under control of people who know and work with the animals.

We've had two serious cases of people being injured in our area this year when walking public footpaths that go through land with grazing cattle.  In each instance the cattle have turned on the people, knocked them down and crushed and trodden them.

While wanting to keep them safe until their owner came I knew I had to pass them to shut the gates but knowing they must already be spooked to have come up a main road I was worried about walking past them and what damage they could do to me and our property.

This is a side effect of having a hunt run through livestock community.  It is very disruptive and like the farmer said, most farmers around here would far rather have the foxes then the hunts - they do far less damage.

Thanks for all your comments.

Surely any damage will be paid for just the same as in a RTA.

Another time, one of my neighbours (not a farmer, just a domestic residence with a decent-sized garden) looked out of his window one day to find the hounds in his garden killing a deer, with members of the hunt watching on This is a strange one- I live on Exmoor and our stag hounds don't 'kill deer' the huntsman does!
There wouldn't be much venison left if it were the hounds job!! :)

Suzie,

All I can suggest if this is a problem and the farmers and land owners have not given permission is to all keep a log of dates, times and what is going through the land, whether dogs, people and/or horses. Once you have the evidence even if its retrospective pass it onto the contact at the top of this topic as hunting should be done within the law and most hunts are doing so and should be doing so.

Nova - the damage is / was paid for, as far as I know, but that doesn't really detract from the fact that they shouldn't have been where they were in the first place. 

Bestdogs - the dogs were pulled off the deer when my neighbour emerged.  I believe he kept the carcass for himself and got some venison out of it.  He wasn't too bothered about the kill, more about the trespass.

In truth, I don't have a particular problem with hunting.  It's just that some (please note I haven't said "all") huntsmen seem to have a sense of entitlement about accessing and damaging other people's land, even when they've been asked not to.

Nova - the damage is / was paid for, as far as I know, but that doesn't really detract from the fact that they shouldn't have been where they were in the first place. Too true but these things happen as do RTA they are not usually deliberate.

Thanks Suejaw, your comments are noted.

>> I have absolutely no reason to think this man was making up a complete fabrication

Just to clarify this was not the point I was trying to make, but your interpretation of what I typed, and I'm sorry that's the case.
  Thankfully Sue has explained the ethos of 'evidence gathering', so I think we've got it now :-) I think that you have a valid complaint to make, and I hope that you do. (what I'm saying is the validity is in the evidence) I am a 'if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem' minded person! As you say you were concerned about possible 'RTC'/ accidents/ injury. <- so this is pretty important right?
  Do you have a Parish council or suchlike for example, that might be a sounding board to garner how everyone locally is affected and how much of a problem this is? Giving you more evidence and a bit more people power if individual Farmers/neighbours feel impotent on their own?

HTH.
 

which hunt are you refering to please suzi?

which hunt are you refering to please suzi?

I don't know who they were.

I didn't know there was a hunt on in the neighbouring fields.  Sometimes I both hear and see them but yesterday I didn't. It was the farmer who came to rescue the cattle who made me aware of it.

I suppose I could do some investigating but not sure if I would be in a position to do anything.  They (the hunt)  didn't come into my land, only the spooked cattle did.

Most country folk know the name of their local hunt, so shouldn't be hard to find out.    And certainly when I was hunting in Pembrokeshire many years ago, we were extremely conscious of landowners/farmers wishes.   I don't suppose relationships have changed too much over the years - probably improved, so can only suggest you write to the  master of the hunt to state your problem, and I'm sure he will listen to a reasonable worry.

Jo

can we narrow it down to nearest town then?? should be easy to work out from that.

Sam how do I get information about a local hunt near me?  Our nearest village of any size is Yatton, and the nearest town is Clevedon N Somerset

When we moved to our small village 5 years ago I would regularly see quite a large group of foxhounds being exercised by a lad on a bicycle.  He knew all their names and his control over them was lovely to watch.  I haven't seen him for at 3 years and I was always curious to find out where he'd come from.  I'm pretty sure the dogs weren't kennelled in our village.  Can you help please?

how far are you from priddy? thats where the mendip farmers kennels always were in my yoof :) Could well be them.....lovely hounds
or could be somerset vale (west)...Their country is bounded by the Bristol Channel to the north, Bridgwater and Spaxton to the east, and St. Audries to the west. It includes part of the Quantock Hills, so maybe thats nearer you? (bit geographically challeneged when it comes to that area, sorry!)

> Most country folk know the name of their local hunt, so shouldn't be hard to find out

I should, but don't lol (paperwork will be somewhere and a quick google would bring it up anyhoo).. But know where the kennels are in my area, there are 2.. One kennel's dogs are very noisy and their barking does travel, the other kennel is very quiet.

Most country folk know the name of their local hunt, so shouldn't be hard to find out.

That maybe the case but in the past not all hunts have been by local people.

There have been seveal occasions since we've lived here (12 years) that special hunts have been organised for and attended by Royalty though I don't know if that is still the case now.

Don't mean to upset anyone who likes this sport but Hunting is of no interes to me whatsoever except when they trespass on land uninvited and cause livestock such distress that they stampede out of their field.

Before the ban we had too many incidents of packs of hounds going in people's gardens and killing the owners pet dogs and also cats.  There was one occasion where a small child was in the garden and a pack of hounds came in and ripped her cat apart while she watched on.

I try not to speak about fox hunting but anyone who wishes to watch an animal chased until it can no longer run through fear and exhaustion before it is ripped apart is abit deprived in my eyes.

I hope Suzi if it was people breaking the law and fox hunting rather than just following a trail they are found out and something is done about it.

They would still be managed by one of the the local hunts near to the area no matter who was invited :-)

Is this in the Glos or Norfolk area about then ?

>They would still be managed by one of the the local hunts near to the area no matter who was invited

That's right. There are rules about which hunt operates in which area; neighbouring hunts don't hunt on another's 'country'. Anyone is allowed to attend, though.

> There have been seveal occasions since we've lived here (12 years) that special hunts have been organised for and attended by Royalty though I don't know if that is still the case now.

Although things have changed a little since the ban, they have not changed to this extent.  Each Hunt still sticks to it's own area, apart from very occasional "Visits" to or by adjacent hunts, when the followers from both hunts will go out with one or the others packs.  Hunts are not "organised" as an invitational thing, each Hunt has it's own dates/days of the week - always a Saturday, and either 1 or 2 days through the week, often a Wednesday plus one other.  The Hunt Calendar is set up at the start of the year and all the days and places of the meets are known - that is the way they can keep get permission well in advance from the farmers whose land will be crossed.

Royalty and other VIPs sometimes Hunt as guests of packs if they are staying in that area - not that the Hunts are"Arranged" for them.  IF you have a look at the MFHA web page you can search by County and see which Hunts meet in your area, so you will be able to contact them and explain your problem, you can then confirm if they were or were not a)Hunting on that day and b)if so, were they in your area.

Er.... I think its worth pointing out that whilst it MAY have been a hunt that spooked these cattle, equally it may not have been.... once cattle ARE spooked (and they can take it into their heads to be spooked by any number of things) and start running, and one of them gets over a fence or takes a fence down... the whole bluddy lot of them go!

If you have reason to believe (ie by seeing it with your own eyes rather than hearsay) that it was your local hunt then phoning them and having a chat with them is all that needs to be done. IF they are rude about it, then make an official complaint.

I have heard a number of stories of people who 'dont want the hunt on their land' and actually in a lot of cases these people had NOT ever informed the hunt officially to stay off their land... instead just preferring to whinge and mutter about it elsewhere as it suited them (and also perfectly happy to avail themselves of the benefits of having a local hunt nearby, including repairs to fencing on their land and very cheap dead stock removal).

Thats not to say that hunts never trespass - it happens and in my experience, rarely is it intentional. Sometimes hounds riot and sometimes followers are numpties and get lost  or just behave in an irresponsible way. If such incidents are brought to the attention of the hunt staff, reprimands ARE given to people who do stupid things (like, get lost and then gallop through fields with mares and foals, or hurtle through someones stable yard rather than go single file and walk)a nd people who do stupid things or cant control their horses repeatedly ARE asked not to return!

Sadly, I believe there are cases where the hunt is asked to stay off, and they don't. The most memorable, from years ago, for me was the persecution of wildlife photographer Eric Ashby who lived in the New Forest. His work, years ago, was seminal stuff. Yet the hunt saw fit to basically bully him when he asked them to keep off his land (which was pretty much a large garden from what I gather). They not only continued to hunt there, but would leave animal carcasses on his doorstep. It all got pretty ugly. All he asked was for them to keep hounds off his land, not much to ask! and his right.

I am afraid that although there are some hunts that do behave respectfully and decently, the facts are that some (many?) do run through people's gardens, do kill pet cats, do scare people and do cause chaos. Plus hounds get killed on railway tracks.

Only a few years ago I was driving along a 60mph road. A few hounds (I think it was a couple, but can't recall now as it was awhile ago) were meandering around in the road trying to get back through the hedge. Chaos was caused. Where were the hunt master and whipper in? Only following the other hounds in the field behind the hedge (still hunting) ... totally ignoring the chaos on the road.

I agree there are some polite and probably careful hunts around, but they do vary.

Lindsay
x

I understand your concerns with them on the road Lindsay.

I was left fuming when going back to work one day. On a country lane I went around the corner to find the hunt taking up the whole road. I had nowhere to go so had to go up into the hegde to avoid hitting the dogs/ horses. I was stuck but they carried on past me - only the last man on horseback said  'are you alright there?' I couldn't believe it - said that no I wasn't and 3 of them had to pull my car back out! Then he had the cheek to ask if i'd done a handbrake stop!! Told him that no I hadn't but had put the hadbrake on when the car had stopped halfway throuth the vegetation!! As you can see am still cross!

But if it had been one of the milk tankers that go down that road regularly none of them would have stood a chance. And there were fields on either side which they could have been in. grrr

Rant over! :)

>But if it had been one of the milk tankers that go down that road regularly none of them would have stood a chance.

Milk tankers are usually driven by considerate drivers who don't use the lanes as a racetrack, but instead drive at a sensible speed so they can stop if there's any obstruction in the road. :-)

Yes I know , they are really careful round there ( unlike the local farmers who welly it round the roads on their tractors ;) ). But it was a blind bend and and he would have had no where to go and just would not have been able to stop in time unfortunately.