Hi , I just wondered if anyone has any idea's on this ... my 11 month old small breed was taken into the vets this morning as we had noticed a pale brown discharge coming from her ( she had a season about 10 weeks ago and also still seems to be quite large and open down there too ) The vet did a scan and then an xray , both of which have shown what appears to be a solid mass surrounded by fluid . She has 3 vets completely baffled as they are saying they have never seen anything like it before and have sent us home with a 2 week course of antibiotics , with an appointment to go back and rescan next wednesday , with a view to opening her up to investigate if nothing has changed . Any help would be greatly appreciated .
Thanks .

I would be concerned that a mass has been detected the vet didnt know what it was and opted for antibiotics. l would have expected blood tests and possibiy a biopsy. i would ask for a second opinion. did they also say about the possibility of an open pyrometra?

It was pyometra that I first mentioned to the vet , which is why they scanned her , but said from the scan that it wasn't . The vet who did the scan went and fetched the 2 senior practise partners who both also said they had no idea , so they xrayed but , again , all 3 couldn't work it out . The anti biotics are to help with the discharge which they've said could be an infection , but I can't see how they will do anything about the mass . These vets are usually superb and I have never had a problem with them , this one has just completely baffled them at the moment . She is very well in herself , eating , drinking and playing , and it was only this unusual discharge that made me worry .

If you are worried then take her back and i would insist on full bloods at the very least.

Can bitches get fibroids????

Is there any chance that she has possibly been mismated & that its the remains of a partially reabsorbed pup?

That's what I thought, especially witha singleton.  Have you had any friends visit witha male dog when her season finished.

Hope she's ok.

I am not sure but as she is so young I would have thought fibroids wouldn't be an issue ? I just think it is wise to get her back to the vet and ask them to do some proper tests rather than just an xray and antibiotics :-)

OMG .... she went to be trimmed after her season ( I was sure she had finished which was why she went for a freshen and tidy up ) ... and my groomer has a young male dog ! I have spoken to her and she has said that they were together while she was waiting for me to collect her , but says he showed no interest in her at all so I really don't know . I have phoned my vet and spoken to them again , and they are saying it doesn't look right for that either and to stick to original plan . I have asked for the senior vet to give me a ring back so am waiting on his call at the moment ....

Any news on this after your scan today?

M.

Hi ... she is not due to be rescanned at my usual vets until next wednesday ... they have now does some bloods and we are waiting  to see if that sheds any light on it . They can't be sure if the mass is in her uterus or her abdomen , but apparently it's very low down . She is still very well in herself and to look at her you wouldn't know there was anything wrong at all , so whatever it is , I am hoping that we have caught it early .

Bit of a daft one, but could she have eaten something that's got stuck?

Not that I know to , but I guess it's a possibility . I am just very confused as to how  now 4 vets have looked at the scan and xray and none seem to have any idea . If the scan shows no improvement when we go back on wednesday they are suggesting they open her up to investigate . She is so well in herself ,eating , drinking , playing etc that you wouldn't know there was anything wrong at all and it seems a shame to put her through surgery , but I guess that is the only way we'll truly know what is in there .

Have the bloods come back yet ?

Hi , blood results were back yesterday and showed nothing abnormal , so the mystery deepens . Another scan tomorrow morning , as I am typing she is trying to stick her tongue up my nose with her tail wagging 10 to the dozen . My concern now is if the scan still shows something ( which I am fully expecting it to ) do I let them open her up to look ... I guess I have to , but it's hard to when she seems so well in herself ....

Think you do have to investigate, if there is something abnormal then you really have no choice. Could be the vet can take a biopsy with a needle and only a light GA before you embark on a full operation to see what it is and remove if needed. On the other hand it could have been air and will not be there next time it is checked or your vet may wish the opinion of a specialist.

If she had an infection the white blood cell count would have been high and so it could mean if the AB's have been working if it is an infection then that could well mean postive news on that front.If the scan does show that the mass is there and hasn't decreased in size then I would ask if they can do a biopsy  before full surgery to see if they can determine what it is. Once you have that information then you will be able to make a more informed decision about what is the best way to proceed. If she is alright in herself, still eating, drinking and is playfull then that is always a very good sign !

Good luck for the scan x

Right , have been for scan this morning and now it is me that is confused !!! I am now being told that what they can see is actually her cervix !!!!( not sure why 4 vets had never seen a cervix before ! ) It is the right size for her breed of dog , but slightly open , although less so than last week . They have now given me 2 options , the first being to leave her and just keep a close eye on her as she may be more prone to infection if her cervix stays slighly open , or to have her spayed . So the good news is that at the moment it looks like it is nothing immediately life threatening , but leaves me with the decision to make about whether to have her spayed yet . I possibly would have liked a litter off her at a later date as she is from excellent lines , but obviously the most important thing is that she is kept safe and well :-)

Vikc32 that is almost unbelievable have you been paying for all this nonsense? Think I would change vets and just keep an eye on her, the first diagnosis from your present vets leave me with little confidence in there second opinion but it is still bringing the money so who cares even better for them if you decide to spay. Forget them and find another vet.

Glad to hear that its nothing serious,but I would really question the competence  of vets that consider a cervix to be a strange mass.
Would they actually know what a real strange mass looked like if they saw one ? I too would be changing vets sharpish

I echo what Jackie has said as you should not pay for what seems like pure incompetance.

I really don't begrudge her any of the money it has cost , and usually my vets are fantastic , I've never had a problem before ... but I too am a little concerned that they didn't recognise a cervix , even if it is an open one ! Would you all go for the spay ( even if with another vet ) or play the waiting and watching game ... worried she'll be more susceptible to infection if her cervix doesn't close properly .

I would go for an extended course of ABs, could be that as it is not normal to scan a bitch shortly after her season that the time taken for the cervix to close may differ from bitch to bitch and it may not be abnormal that your bitch is still closing hers. One imagines that an open cervix is likely to make the bitch prone to infection but I would have thought if this is abnormally slow there may be a lack of hormones treatment with which should sort the problem.

I too think you should consider changing vet. Have they had to treat any of your dogs or dog, prior to this for anything complex. If they haven't,maybe that is why they are usually fantastic. I would wait and see - spey is usually about three months after season anyway, that is if you decide to take this route. Perhaps ask for referal before you decide.  I would not be at all happy if I was using this practise.

> I would go for an extended course of ABs, could be that as it is not normal to scan a bitch shortly after her season that the time taken for the cervix to close may differ from bitch to bitch

My old one has this due to her age, i keep AB's ready to prevent infection when she has a season.  The vet said the cervix is open so able to let muck in if the dog is able to clean it properly or get down properly, as in my girls case.  She'll be fine and will sort itself out.  Nova is right about the AB's.  i just let my vet know i need them.

She's only had the odd water infection from this, never a womb infection.  Personally I wouldn't consider speying, but that's me.

I agree with everyone else, change vets and ask them for a refund.  They put you through unnecessary worry and possibly an operation.  How they confused that with a mass is beyond me.  Glad she's ok.

Sunshine an open cervix would not cause a water infection (UTI) that is a different system the cervix only leads to the womb and associated organs, the urethra opens onto the floor of the vagina near the exit but has nothing to do with the cervix which is much deeper in.

This is what my vet said, as she was more open due to the season, the germs can travel up and if the bitch has trouble keping that area clean it can result in infection.  They said if enough germs can spread to the womb and travel higher.  Sorry probably didn't make it clear.  A conbination of the coat near that area being dribbled on ect.  They always checked for pyro before confirming a UTI.

I have a good vet, even if I do say so myself lol.  There are exceptions there of course.

I would and have done with my eldest Lab as she had reoccuring infections post season and so after a couple of years I decided it was best to spay to stop her suffering.

My girl often has slight infections post season, perhaps it's something like this with her, the cervix not closing as quickly as it should. I did once have a vet suggest spaying, but so far it's just been that I am aware of the problem and notice a slight creamy discharge which antibiotics then sort out, so it doesn't seem major enough for a spay.

I suppose it depends on how bad the infections are as it really used to bring my girl down and make her very low so it was the best course of action as I was never going to breed from her anyway and having this problem only made this even more of an easier decision ;-)

Yes, if it made her feel ill it would be different, but it never affected her behaviour, it was purely that I noticed the discharge as I was checking her. I don't intend to breed from her again, but I don't want to spay unless it is medically or behaviourally necessary.

In your breed where the coat can get terribly difficult to groom (and cause discomfort doing so) then I can understand your position, especially if you still intend to show her. 

In my own breed it is fortunate that there is no great change in coat, so I would have her spayed if she were one of mine, as she is fully adult and no longer needed in your breeding program. 

Having to spay a bitch ill with Pyometra, perhaps in old age is too big a risk factor for me to keep bitches entire past their breeding life.

Yes, I do get sick of the pet Cavs I groom with their thick teddy bear woolly coats, I don't want Ellie to go like that if possible!