Just wondering what everyones thoughts were on this.In my local paper we have a guy who writes a regular column.He advertises himself as a dog trainer / behaviourist .I have never met him but I hear he has Labs as working dogs for shoots ect. Anyway in his column he is always writing about people shouldnt be letting their dogs have free play with other dogs and you should never play tug of war with a dog as he will think if he wins he is dominent over you and you should never let any dog put his teeth on you ect. Now I have always brought my dogs up from pups , allowing them to chew my hands in play , but when the bite gets too hard , yelping loudly and stopping the game.I have found this teaches the dog really well too be very gentle with his mouth.Also I have always allowed my dogs to play together and I have never ever had a problem with aggression and I have even played tug of war and sometimes I win sometimes the dogs win but it has never caused a ' Dominence ' problem. Am I just lucky and this guy is giving sensible advice or is he scare mongering ?
I know you guys on here are very experienced so would love to hear your opinions ?

There are all sorts of fixated "Behaviourists" if it is not domination it is the pack theory they read a book and decide that they can become a specialist in training dogs all dogs no matter if their experience of training amounts to half a dozen dogs who probably achieved behaving in a reasonable way despite their "trainers" efforts.

> you should never play tug of war with a dog as he will think if he wins he is dominent over you

A gundog puppy should never be encouraged to play tug, but not for the reason above..  We want the dog to drop immediately on command, and any returned game should be promptly brough back to hand and released... Encouraging play tug is not conducive to teaching a drop... In this respect you will never have a gundog trainer ever playing or allowing any tug games..

Most dogs will play tug at some point and have great fun doing so.. nothing wrong with this, but just not working dogs, This includes working gundogs, DftD dogs, and guide dogs.. And all dogs which require immediate return of objects.

Nothing whatsoever to do with dominance.. dogs view play tug as fun, nothing more, nothing less...

A dog also needs his teeth to contact skin in order to learn bite inhibition

I do restrict young puppies freeplay, it can damage joints if the play becomes too rough, however, the adults interact and freeplay at will, although on the whole, play lasts around 5mins, and then they settle into a 'find a spot and laze' until something catches their interest.

 

Like Kay I also work my labs (Hi Kay :-) not seen you for a while, will you be at GBAS?) and agree with what she has said, I also would like to point out that allowing adult dogs to free play shouldn't have a negative affect on their ability to work either, its all about the training and situation.  Just like us humans, working dogs learn to behave in an appropriate way when in the shooting field and know it's different to when it's their time to have fun etc.

> Like Kay I also work my labs (Hi Kay :-) not seen you for a while, will you be at GBAS?)

**** waves***** Hi Rach.. yes will be at GBAS... see you there :-)

I don't know much about what's right behaviour training so can't comment on that but i let mine have free play.  I only stop it it it goes on too long or one looks like they are getting too excited and the other doesn't like it.

I have no problems playing tug and behaviour, they always nearly win, the little beggers don't let go unless I tickle their noses lol.  If I don't tug when they 'fetch it' then they will drop it.

My GR only retrieved if she was in the house and would be very obliging, on the park, she'd look at you to 'you threw it, you get it'.  I did play tug with her but very gently as she wasn't working.  i had to encourage her to play this, so maybe she was a natural lol.

most of our day can taken up with playing if i think they need stimulating or look board, a few minutes usually helps.

I've not noticed any dominence issues over each other or me, they know I'm boss (yeah right), I even have them on the bed.

As long as they know when they are working, i don't see an issue.  Play ect allows the distinction.

Yes I completly agree that if he was giving advice for purely working dogs , then playing tug ect wouldnt be encouraged.However he isn't .his advice is for the general public and I worry that there will be a whole host of dogs around my area that have no idea how to play with other dogs.Surely this would make them less likely to be able to read what signs other dogs are giving them and in turn could in fact create more problems than this guy thinks he is solving ? I think he thinks dogs should ONLY play with their handlers ?

I agree Otis, dogs should have interaction and socialisation with humans and dogs (and all things) from an early age, this is what helps mold a dog into a sociable and amiable creature...

Unfortunately, many  owners have tunnel vision... they cannot see past their own breed (or group)  I have been guilty of this too.. when talking about dogs in general with someone.. I end up in automatic gundog speak.   It took a friend who does not own a gundog to point this out to me.

As a child I grew up with Border Terriers, and they ragged, it is a natural instinct for a terrier (especially my trouser legs :-) )  It was something that my parents discouraged, one caught my arm once, and once in a grip, he automatically began to play rag.... and that was in play, no real damage done, just minor skin nicks, but still left a couple of half inch scars

Dogs interact with each other through body language and controlled play, and we also need to understand our dogs body language. We, and they, can only learn this through interaction

Die hard Gundog people are a strange breed ;-)  they go into gundog mode from the moment they wake up, till they sleep ... It is a job they and their dogs do, but we do play and have fun, we just don't rag :-)

My gundogs play with toys, and they do 'rag' them. They still have soft mouths. They aren't stupid and learn the difference between a toy, which they are allowed to rag, dummies, which they are not, and game which they are defnately not allowed to rag. ;-) It all comes down to training.

> My gundogs play with toys, and they do 'rag' them. They still have soft mouths. They aren't stupid and learn the difference between a toy, which they are allowed to rag, dummies, which they are not, and game which they are defnately not allowed to rag. ;-) It all comes down to training.

Then you are quite unique, if you work your dogs and allow them to rag toys.. I have yet to meet a Field Trialer who allows this

It has nothing to do with soft mouths, the most steady of gundogs may not have a soft mouth... And nowhere did anyone mention that dogs who rag are stupid (what a strange this to say) 

I agree it does comes down to training.. if you have a working gundog with a penchant for ragging, you train it not to...