My girls first booster (1yr old) is coming due. I'm very dubious about bombarding her system with a full vaccination, she did have her full puppy jabs. Can anyone advise what is recommended these days. She's excersised where a few dogs go but doesn't meet many nose to nose.

Hi Peanut,

There is a huge amount of debate (see previous threads on this site) about this subject. I think that most good vets recognise now there is no need to over vaccinate these days. Generally they only vaccinate for hardpad, distemper etc.. every 3 years the lepto & parvo every year. I have spoken to my vets at length about this subject and they didnt try to push us into having boosters done but at the same time said that parvo is on the rise in many areas of the country, would you want to risk your dog coming into contact with this dreadful disease without any kind of protection? your dog doesnt need to meet other dogs nose to nose to catch it,  only to come into contact with some Feaces by a dog that does have it. Something my vet said was that until they see any hard evidence that giving Lepto and parvo every year is harmful to dogs immune systems then they will continue to recommend giving it as a precaution..they said to see a young dog die of parvo is something you never want to witness so my personal view is that I do think that dogs should be given a yearly booster..there are titre tests that you can have done, but I have read they do not give you a conclusive answer about your dogs immunity to parvo  just an indication of your dogs levels at the time of the test. Thats just my personal view I am sure other people will come along with their own opinions its a tough one as there is a strong argument for boosters and in some cases arguments against?  

It's the dogs that don't meet enough other dogs to top up their immunity naturally that actually are more likely to need boosting.  Certainly I would always have the first booster in case the puppy jabs had not taken properly.

A titre test (blood sample) will show her immunity and whether its necessary to booster.  For example, my almost 9 years old GSD male hasnt had a booster for atleast 4 years.  He had a titre test last month and his immunity was very high, so much so my vet said he thinks he will never need a booster again.

If you take you dog into kennels they will insist on your dog being fully vaccinated (annually) as I don't use kennels this doesnt matter to me.  You can't rely on the fact she doesnt have much nose to nose contact.  Most diseases are in faeces or even airborn.

If you are thinking of titer testing, perhaps this is a good article to read.  http://www.caberfeidh.com/Titers.htm

Don't think it is a simple as that is it Barking Mad, do not think there is a direct co-relation between the results of a titre test and the amount of immunity the dog has.

Nova - what is your interpretation of the titre test then?

ps. Why do vets do it when they could simply push boostering yearly?

I am not sure that a titre test tells you if the dog has immunity only if the said immunity has been stimulated recently. Not that educated in the manner of testing but if it checks the status of the white blood cells that only shows stimulation not effectiveness and a lack of cell activity may mean a lack of stimulation not a lack of antibodies. How ever I could have the wrong idea and will be happy to be corrected.

Good vets do as the client asks and I doubt if titre testing figures large in the training of a vet, most vets will not waste time trying to explain to a client it is easier and safer to just do as asked.

However as I said I have not had it explained to me in detail so I could be wrong.

The titre test does show immunity Nova, that's why they use it for the rabies jab/passport.

However, a low titre does not necessarily mean the dog is not immune but that the dog has not been challenged by the desease in question.

Perry - think that is what I said, well it is what I thought I said that it can't tell you the immunity because if the system has not been challenged the reading will be low although that does not mean the dog is not protected.

Am I wrong in thinking there is a time factor with Rabies jab if so that is what they are checking that the jab its self has been successful.

>Am I wrong in thinking there is a time factor with Rabies jab if so that is what they are checking that the jab its self has been successful.

There is initially - a blood sample is taken 3 weeks after the injection to test for antibodies. However that need never be done again providing the boosters are done correctly, so there's no evidence that the immunity wanes or not n the intervening time.

I think until you have  had experience of an adverse reaction to a vaccine event or know someone who has..... then you never really question the practice of annual boostering

The reminder letter comes in the post, you book your appt and take your dog. A bit further down the road.... your dog may begin to suffer from recurrent skin allergies, early onset arthritis, kidney problems, liver problems, digestive problems, aggression, etc etc...... but if this doesn't happen immediately it can take a while before you start to make a connection between the annual booster and the health problem....that's if you ever do make the connection.

But...once you have had first hand experience of losing a young dog or puppy to a vaccine event then the first question....after the initial heartbreak.... and then the anger.... is WHY..??

And the answer to that question...in my opinion is....profit for the huge pharmaceuticals.... and nothing to do with the health of your companion.

Its good that you are asking about vaccination safety before you book the appointment. It helps to be informed in advance..... and to ask as many questions as you need to in order to make the decision on behalf of your dog.

I am fully behind the campaign to withdraw the one year dog and cat vaccine....I believe it is nothing short of animal abuse.

"Stop the Shots NOW" campaign launches - July 2010
A major campaign has been launched by Canine Health Concern and others highlighting the needlessness of annual pet vaccination.
We are told to vaccinate our dogs and cats every year. But is this necessary and is it harmless? The answer to both these questions is no.
After years of writing to the British government and the government's licensing authority (the Veterinary Medicines Directorate), Canine Health Concern and over 100 vets and pet owners are calling for the withdrawal of one-year dog and cat vaccines.
The British Government's Veterinary Medicines Directorate needs to get out of bed with the pharmaceutical industry. A document with all the scientific research to substantiate Canine Health Concern's claim has been sent to the Veterinary Medicines Directorate - this document details the risks associated with vaccinating your pets, and tells you why governments might want you to take those risks"

Read it at petvaccine.weebly.com/response-to-the-vmd.html

>But...once you have had first hand experience of losing a young dog or puppy to a vaccine event then the first question....after the initial heartbreak.... and then the anger.... is WHY..??

Because sometimes s**t happens. The fact that such events are so very rare makes them so much more shocking when they do happen.

Tragically sometimes people die from eating a peanut (no pun intended on the OP's username!). That doesn't mean that eating peanuts is inherently dangerous and that peanuts should be banned.

Sadly for me side effects haven't been rare.  I have lost my last 3 dogs all at young ages (2 aged just 4years and 1 aged 7years).
I will never routinely vaccinate another dog again.
Also during my research into vaccines and thier side effects I have come across a huge number of dogs that have had problems that can be linked back to vaccines.

Although don't have problems these days but for my mum and I they weren't that rare with the Pomeranian's a few years back.  Two pups even died at the vets after vaccinations.  Result an extremely upset vet who only 15 minutes earlier had phoned to say how fit and healthy they were.  We had lost pups before that, that is why he kept them at his surgery.

>Also during my research into vaccines and thier side effects I have come across a huge number of dogs that have had problems that can be linked back to vaccines.

There are hundreds of thousands of puppies vaccinated and adults boostered every year; the number that have problems as a result is very small indeed. Tragic for the individuals, that goes without saying, but the risk needs to be kept in proportion.

The only benefit that would arise from doing away with vaccines entirely would be to cut down the number of dogs in rescue - so many more of them would have died before getting there.

The only benefit that would arise from doing away with vaccines entirely would be to cut down the number of dogs in rescue - so many more of them would have died before getting there

I'm not sure about this as most dogs in rescue are probably never vaccinated - I say probably as we don't know?

But many are - through my job I know several people who've given up their fully vaccinated dogs. That's because of the current herd effect from the vaccinated population. Without that we'll be back to the 'good' old days when the death rate from these now controlled diseases was very high; the rescue kennels would be regularly purged by outbreaks of disease.

I think until you have  had experience of an adverse reaction to a vaccine event or know someone who has..... then you never really question the practice of annual boostering

I totally agree with this comment FreedomOfSpirit.  I lost my last dog aged just 3 years, and like many who have lost their dogs or seen dogs suffer through over vaccination, once you start to research the numbers are frighteningly high.  Not all can be proved one way or the other - the reaction my dog suffered although not proved because we didn't have a PM;  Virbac (the vaccination manufacturer) paid for all costs for his treatment and sent me a letter saying that in a perfect world all dogs would be titre tested to establish whether or not a booster was necessary (and from my research in most cases it is not).

There are also a few people I am in contact with who are not being vocal about the damage done to their dogs through vaccination because their dogs need ongoing treatment and the vaccination manufacturers responsible are paying for this - they believe if they were open about the problems the payments could stop :( 
 

But many are - through my job I know several people who've given up their fully vaccinated dogs

In general, I believe that the strays that are taken into rescue are not and probably the reason they survive as they probably have a strong immune system.

I took my dogs to training today and there is a beautiful golden retriever there just 14 months old, he has been coming since a puppy, and he has had all the best care in the world that ignorant owners can give (like me with my last dog), neutered at 6 months, boostered at 12 months and he is wormed and flea treated every month.  Today, was the first time I saw this dog looking poorly, and I could see history repeating itself and it goes on......  we should inform and educate people that all the worming and flea treatments are not necessary every month, and medium to large breed dogs shouldn't be castrated until they are fully grown, it really upsets me that some vets allow this to go on :( and even advise it :( :(

I wouldn't want to see vaccines done away with entirely. Its the practice of over vaccination I want to see stopped.
I think all dogs should have a titre test before recieving any vaccination.   I know had I done that with the dogs I lost they would probably have gone on to live normal happy lives instead of the terrible suffering they went through for over a year and in the case of one of them for over 2 years during thier short lives.
I will never vaccinate again without checking they actually need it first, but I do think its important to check every year.
I think all vets should explain the dangers to clients and offer a titre test first.

Because sometimes s**t happens.

I agree with Jeangenie, there will always be very sad and unfortunate cases where dogs suffer due to vaccinations, however I am of an age when I remember the suffering caused by these diseases before vaccinating became the norm. Because nowadays these diseases are rarely seen then people tend to forget just how bad it was for dogs back then and the number of dogs that died. Also I have recently nursed my pup through Parvo and even though she must be the most immune pup in the world right now, I will still have her booster when the year is up.
Similar discussions as to whether children should have various jabs, because they are not around the terrible diseases are forgotten, however I remember loosing 3 classmates to diptheria and one being in an iron lung with polio.
My dogs will take their chances with vaccinations as if everyone stops giving jabs it scares me that these illnesses could return.

> My dogs will take their chances with vaccinations as if everyone stops giving jabs it scares me that these illnesses could return

I agree. Took my 12+ year old and 8 year old on Wednesday for their boosters and checkup. Not without a thought - I always think about what I am doing and why.

Daisy

The only benefit that would arise from doing away with vaccines entirely

Yes but doing away with vaccines entirely is not the point of the "Stop The Shots Now" campaign. Canine Health Concern is requesting the withdrawal from the market of the One Year Vaccine. Its the One Year Vaccine that perpetuates the myth of your dog or cat requiring an annual booster. Licences are already in the marketplace for the 3 year vaccine and scientific research has already proven that first "puppy shots" are good for 7 years...... if not for the life of the animal.

> Its the practice of over vaccination

I understand that dogs need to be vaccinated once, but why do they require it every year? In humans it is only done once?

Titre testing gives the levels of anti bodies in the blood, but I gather from our vet and other sources that this is only part of the bodies defence system that responds (memory cells etc).  So a high reading of anti bodies can't guarantee immunity and a low reading dosen't necessarily mean either that the system dosen't have immunity. Sorry I don't think that reads very well.

Lacy, it is complicated and there are no guarantees with anything in life. Dogs and people can contact the desease whether vaccinated or not.  A friend of mine had her dog vaccinated every year and he died of lepto not long after his booster.

Once a dog has immunity (I have been advised by an expert in the field) that immunity will usually last for life and a good way of checking is through titre testing - as you say, no guarnatee one way or the other but it can give you a guide on immunity levels.

 

Dogs and people can contact the desease whether vaccinated or not.  A friend of mine had her dog vaccinated every year and he died of lepto not long after his booster.

Perry...and I've heard its the case that the Lepto vaccine.... is currently causing more adverse reactions than any other canine vaccine..??

After my own experiences of adverse reactions.... I've chosen to arm myself with the knowledge of the symptoms of the diseases and know what to look out for..... equip myself with the major homeopathic remedies to deal with a disease if it occurs....and protect my puppies from 3 weeks old with Homeopathic Nosodes. (Distemper/Hepatitis/Lepto/Parvo) I also supply my new puppy guardians with a course of Nosodes and a Homeopathic Certificate of Supply. That way they can continue protection until the little one has settled into his/her new home and until the level of circulating maternal antibodies has subsided enough for the first vaccine to "take" I also provide lots of information about vaccines so they can make an informed decision about whether to give annual boosters. I know of two of my puppies where their Guardians (like me) also took the decision to continue with Homeopathic Nosodes and not to give the first shots and both are in the best of health. 

There are also a few people I am in contact with who are not being vocal about the damage done to their dogs through vaccination because their dogs need ongoing treatment and the vaccination manufacturers responsible are paying for this - they believe if they were open about the problems the payments could stop  

Thats so sad :(

Is there no way of giving these dogs and their Guardians a voice...??

I think all vets should explain the dangers to clients and offer a titre test first.

I think this would be a good way to go...

I can remember taking one of my dogs for his first booster (before I knew better) and asking the vet exactly which diseases were being injected into him.... and she didn't even know without looking it up...!

>Canine Health Concern is requesting the withdrawal from the market of the One Year Vaccine. Its the One Year Vaccine that perpetuates the myth of your dog or cat requiring an annual booster.

Leptospirosis requires an annual booster; this is not a myth.

Leptospirosis requires an annual booster; this is not a myth

Then far better going down the nosodes route IMO. 
Unfortunately (unlike the flu jab) the strains of the lepto virus are not changed each year and there are a number of different strains, the UK vaccine for lepto does not protect against the majority of strains found in the UK.

It protects against the most dangerous ones that are transmissable to humans.

The lepto vaccine only protects for 3-6 months so for the rest of the year your dog is unprotected.  Apparently the vaccine manufacturers are looking at this and seeing if there is anything they can do to make it last longer.
It is also the vaccine that can cause the worst side effects.

>The lepto vaccine only protects for 3-6 months so for the rest of the year your dog is unprotected.

3-6 months is better than nothing - it's a horrible disease and very difficult to manage whilst the dog's recovering.

Most vets will never see a serious vaccine reaction in all their working lives - they really are very uncommon. Tragic when they happen, of course, but there would be far more sick and dead dogs if vaccination regimes weren't maintained.

It protects against the most dangerous ones that are transmissable to humans.

I can never understand why humans are not vaccinated lepto along with all the other vaccinations we have.  Obviously for those most at risk or maybe the risk is too low?

> Then far better going down the nosodes route IMO

Only a few weeks ago, a GP, who also practices homeopathy, was interviewed on BBC Breakfast about homeopathic 'injections' for children. She stated that they don't work and would always advise parents to have the conventional vaccinations. IMO should apply equally for dogs that nosodes don't work.

Daisy

> Then far better going down the nosodes route IMO

Only a few weeks ago, a GP, who also practices homeopathy, was interviewed on BBC Breakfast about homeopathic 'vaccinations' for children. She stated that they don't work and would always advise parents to have the conventional vaccinations. IMO should apply equally for dogs that nosodes don't work.

Daisy

Only a few weeks ago, a GP, who also practices homeopathy, was interviewed on BBC Breakfast about homeopathic 'vaccinations' for children. She stated that they don't work and would always advise parents to have the conventional vaccinations

Ah but was she correct, or was it her opinion?  There are GP's for and against homeopathy and she was obviously the latter.

Our vet (conventional) but also practices homeopathy treats her dogs with nosodes rather than conventional vaccines.

I think childrens vaccinations are a totally different ball game, and they are not boostered year after year.  That said, was advised that my daughters should not have the whooping cough vaccine when they were young because of allergies within the family so side affects are always going to be a possibility.  

3-6 months is better than nothing - it's a horrible disease and very difficult to manage whilst the dog's recovering.

Yes but owners should be made aware of how long it lasts not led blindly to believe thier dog is covered for a whole year.

> Ah but was she correct, or was it her opinion?  There are GP's for and against homeopathy and she was obviously the latter

No - she wasn't against homeopathy, she was a GP and homeopathic practitioner.

BBC

Daisy

That's interesting and of course she, like everyone is entitled to have opinions. 

I do know that my homeopathic/conventional vet does actually believe that nosodes work - hence she uses them on her dogs.  Again it is something we have to decide for ourselves, but it is great that we are discussing this so everyone knows the pros and cons of vaccinating or not.

3-6 months is better than nothing - it's a horrible disease and very difficult to manage whilst the dog's recovering

It is if it protects against the strains found in the UK.  But unless they have changed the vaccine recently, which I don't believe they have, then it doesn't cover them.  As I mentioned earlier, my friends dog died of lepto having been vaccinated every year. 

The British Association of Homeopathic Vets have been published as saying that nosodes are not replacements for conventional vaccines; they should be used as treatment when the animal has the symptoms of the disease.

>It is if it protects against the strains found in the UK.

Yes it does. This tells you the strains found in the UK. This tells you  the strains in the vaccine.

I was interested until I saw it was on the NOAH website!

Noah publishes all the datasheets for licenced animal medicines. Those aren't opinions; facts are facts whoever tells them. Are you seriously saying that you'd believe the datasheet if it was published on one website but not another???!!!

I had no idea that the Lepto vacc only lasts 3/6 mths...why on earth dont the vets tell you this....money!!!

It is if it protects against the strains found in the UK.  But unless they have changed the vaccine recently, which I don't believe they have, then it doesn't cover them.  As I mentioned earlier, my friends dog died of lepto having been vaccinated every year. 

The Lepto vaccine covers some of the strains in the UK by no means all.   As I stated before it only actually lasts in the system for 3-6 months and before that the levels of cover start to drop off.  So it could have been after this time your friends dog contracted it.
Also not all dogs will take up the vaccinations so unless you titre test you will not know whether your dog has or not, it will be a lottery.  Perhaps your friends dog was one of these.
Or your friends dog could have caught one of the strains not covered by the vaccine.

3-6 months is better than nothing - it's a horrible disease and very difficult to manage whilst the dog's recovering.

Yes but is 3-6 months better than nothing when you consider all the other foreign constituents that make up the vaccine..... that are being injected into your companion's blood-stream on an annual basis..??

I would rather consider that...yes... it is extremely likely that my dogs will come in contact with contaminated rat urine.... one of the main sources of infection... (along with the other serovars) and if I'm not going to wrap my bunch of ragamuffins in a cocoon....and I'm not going to subject them needlessly to toxic chemicals in their blood stream year after year...then what can I do about it...??

Nosodes can be used as a preventative measure (a Homeopathic Vet will prescribe on an individual basis once everything is known about your companion's lifestyle).... but they are known to work extremely well..... when it is known that the animal is under challenge from a disease. I therefore work on the assumption that my dogs ARE under challenge from lepto and (no doubt the other bugs and viruses) on a daily basis and protect them according to the guidelines from my Homeopathic Vet (who is also a fully qualified veterinary surgeon MA VetMB CertIAVH VetFFHom MRCVS)

We now seem to be discussing lepto as if it's the only vaccine that requires boostering on an annual basis.... when the stark reality for many animals is that the annual reminder letter  involves many different viruses along with all sorts of foreign constituents being injected into their bloodstreams EVERY YEAR.... when scientific research has shown that immunity once achieved is good for 7 years..... if not for life.....!

I agree that there is no magic wand and that an element of risk is a part of life....but in seeking to minimise the risks to my dogs' lives, welfare and good health.... I cannot support, condone, agree with or comply with...... the current practice of annual boostering.

I have the living, breathing, huggable proof in front of my own eyes every day.... in the shape of my dogs and cats (eldest cat is a few days short of 17 and never seen a vet) that annual boostering is not neccessary.....and in the case of several of my dogs has been detrimental to their health.

>Yes but is 3-6 months better than nothing when you consider all the other foreign constituents that make up the vaccine..... that are being injected into your companion's blood-stream on an annual basis..??

For me it is. Like yours (indeed, like anyone in this country if the belief that nobody is more than 15 metres (5 metres in London) from a rat can be believed!), the proximity of rats in undeniable, and I'm not prepared to risk my dogs contracting the disease; the risk is too great for them or for my family. I like my dogs to live very natural doggy lives as far as possible - wrapping them in cotton wool isn't an option!