What stages does a dog go through to reach the crufts Championships. And when do breeders/owners know that they may have a contender, would they start training for Crufts from as early as puppy stage? Just interested.

To qualify for Crufts a dog needs to be awarded 1st, 2nd or 3rd in any one (or more) of various classes at championship shows where Challenge Certificates are on offer for the breed. No special training is needed forCrufts - it's just the same as any other championship show.

Thanks Jeangenie, Is it easy to explain what various classes means please. Also what is the amount of each breed represented at Crufts and how is this determined? Once at Crufts how many rounds do the dogs go through before best in show? Any idea or shall I do my own homework? only I feel lazy tonight don't fancy doing homework.

In the back of any open or champ show schedule there is a definition of classes and you can find an example of schedules on Higham Press or Dog Biz or Fosse Data

Dependant on how many classes you have entered normally you go in your class, if you win that you go through to best dog/bitch. Then you go for BOB. BOB then goes through to the group stage. If your dog wins the group then you go through to best in show. If it is a big championship show like Crufts then you might have to come back on the final day if your group is not being judged on BIS day.

There is no set amount of representation for each individual breed of dog. How many go to crufts just depends on how many qualify and how many enter. Some breeds do not have as many dogs in the country as others. For example there are about 200 Borzoi's registered in the UK each year, compare this to THOUSANDS of Labradors and you can soon work out that there will be comparably more Lab's at Crufts than Borzoi...

> compare this to THOUSANDS of Labradors and you can soon work out that there will be comparably more Lab's at Crufts than Borzoi...

Is this not unfair then to the Borzoi breed for instance that he has less chance of getting through against for instance the Labs because greater representation = greater chance of winning.

Here we go ....! Classes at shows are limited by age (6-9 months, 6-12 months for example) of the dog or how much winning it's done. The older and more successful the dog, the more the options are restricted and the fewer classes it's eligible to enter.

The number of entrants at Crufts is down to the number of dogs who achieve the required standard at any stage throughout the year - a dog need only win 3rd place in its Puppy (6-12 months) class, even if only 3 are entered) at a single champ show to have qualified.

>Once at Crufts how many rounds do the dogs go through before best in show?

It's no different to any other show; the dog needs to win its class, then all the class winners of its breed and sex compete for best of sex, then the Best Dog and the Best Bitch compete against each other for Best of Breed. The Best of Breed then competes against the other BoB winners in its Group (Pastoral, Toy, Gundog etc) for Best of Group. Then the seven Group winners compete for Best in Show. All championship shows are run on the same lines; it's just that Crufts is the most famous.

These spells out the rules http://www.crufts.org.uk/crufts-2011-qualification A few breeds differ to the classes below so you might need to refer to the link too.

If it has won any of the following prizes in a breed class (as defined in Kennel Club Regulations for the Definitions of Classes at Championship Shows) at a Championship Show, including Crufts, where Challenge Certificates were offered for the breed between 8 January 2010 and 7 January 2011.

First, Second or Third in Minor Puppy Class
First, Second or Third in Puppy Class
First, Second or Third in Junior Class
First, Second or Third in Yearling Class
First, Second or Third in Post Graduate Class
First, Second or Third in Limit Class
First, Second or Third in Open Class
First, Second or Third in Veteran Class

>Is this not unfair then to the Borzoi breed for instance that he has less chance of getting through against for instance the Labs because greater representation = greater chance of winning.

Actually the opposite applies! If there are only three entrants in a 'qualifying' class then all three are likely to qualify. If there are 20 entrants in a 'qualifying' class then it's still only three that will qualify!

> In the back of any open or champ show schedule there is a definition of classes and you can find an example of schedules on Higham Press or Dog Biz or Fosse Data
>

I will have a read .

Thank you.

I bought a puppy in 2000 that I had NO interest at all in showing. I picked her on temperament only and wanted her for obedience and companionship. A year or so later I was persuaded by the owner of a relative of my dog to start showing her. At her first show she did nothing. Not even placed. However I was currently dating my husband to be then and we figured dog shows was as good as any other day out for a date so we entered a few more shows and started getting low placings. Fast forward to this year when this particular dog, then ten years old, won Best of Breed at Crufts and also gained her Champion title. So in Ripley's case, there was no show training whatsoever from puppyhood as I was determined not to show her. If somebody had told me back then she'd get BOB at Crufts I'd had said they were insane! <grin>

> If there are 20 entrants in a 'qualifying' class then it's still only three that will qualify!

So it's after the qualifying class that equal amounts of each breed go through.

> Is this not unfair then to the Borzoi breed for instance that he has less chance of getting through against for instance the Labs because greater representation = greater chance of winning.

No - There will still be Borzoi's competing and a Borzoi will compete in the Hound Group, should the Borzoi win the group then it will go through to BIS. A Lab may not win the gundog group regardless of how many enter Crufts..... Its not about the amount of dogs competing, at the end of the day only one dog will represent its breed in the group and then one dog will represent the group in BIS....

Just to add that dogs can also qualify for Crufts for life in various ways.

> then the Best Dog and the Best Bitch compete against each other for Best of Breed.

Has it ever been proven which has the highest success rate, bitches or dogs to go through for Best of Breed?

So it's after the qualifying class that equal amounts of each breed go through.

It won't be equal amounts. If a breed has championship status, i.e. can gain the title of Champion, then those dogs can ONLY qualify at championship shows that have Challenge Certificates on offer for the breed (CCs are what makes the dog a Champion -3 of them needed). For some breeds, (those with large entries) that will mean every championship show of the year, so literally dozens of shows to qualify at. For others, like my own breed, there are only 8 shows a year in which you can qualify at. Yet others are somewhere in between.

>> then the Best Dog and the Best Bitch compete against each other for Best of Breed.
> Has it ever been proven which has the highest success rate, bitches or dogs to go through for Best of Breed?

Not to my knowledge... You have to remember that different judges will prefer different things and different types - also sometimes at champ shows (dependant on entries) there are two judges, one for bitches and one for dogs.... They have to decided between them which is BOB.

> However I was currently dating my husband to be then and we figured dog shows was as good as any other day out for a date

Really, interesting. Are they good pick up joints too MarianneB? Many singletons?

Just out of interest - Sian, why do you want to know all about qualifying for Crufts ect???

Well beenas you ask, I'm going to my first ever dog show soon (spectator) wahay, and know absolutely nothing about the world of dog shows, So I thought once at the show I need to look all knowledgeable like, as if I know what I'm talking about. And not just nod my head looking all bemused at what the other peron is talking about. All that Bobs and Bills 'n stuff. I though they were the judges.:)

Don't pretend to know, just talk to people. Dog show people are very friendly esp. if you are talking dog. Thats my only advice, ask questions and any decent person will answer them for you :o)

What show?

It sounds like one hell of a long day to me, time to meet someone, wine, dine and 69. Marry and divorce all in one day.

The above applies to qualification for the breed classes - those as close to the breed standard as possible.  There are other rules applying to qualification for agility, Handling, Obedience etc.  Is there a particular type of class you're hoping to qualify for.  The cut off point for qualification for the forthcoming Crufts isearly in the New year after which any wins in the relevant class carries over for entry the following year.

Now that would be tellin. Why have you got your boxing gloves hanging up by your front door ready to bring?:)
Cos I do kick boxing you know, ooh scary....come and have a go if you think you're hard enough :) :)

> Dog show people are very friendly esp. if you are talking dog.

What if i'm not talking dog, will they hit me?

Its not a long day really - I make sure that my girls have everything they need and they spend most of their time being walked. I only really crate them while I am in the ring with one. I might nip to the canteen/food court and get some food but I go back to the crate and sit with the dogs. I also check on them between classes if I am watching the judging and 9 times out of 10 I have them with me any way. My older girl sleeps for most of the day whether she is in the crate or not - she is so chilled out. My other girl is totally un phased by everything and is so happy go lucky. They both love showing, I know they do as both of them would not do it otherwise.

>> Dog show people are very friendly esp. if you are talking dog.
> What if i'm not talking dog, will they hit me?

No - its just the same as talking to anyone about something they enjoy - they are more likely to speak to you at length about something they enjoy (whether that be dog showing, reading, watching films, jogging, football ect ect)

Has anyone from Champ Dogs ever competed at Crufts before, and were they successful?

Did you even read my post above?

> Did you even read my post above?

LOL - I did and you must be sooooooooooo proud :o) Congrats xxx

> No - its just the same as talking to anyone about something they enjoy - they are more likely to speak to you at length about something they enjoy (whether that be dog showing, reading, watching films, jogging, football ect ect)

Phew that's reassuring.

Sian - are you always so polite to people who are trying to help?

> Did you even read my post above?

If that was to me Marianne B then of course I did, and I'm going back over them all now, there seemed to be a sudden influx of postings, coming at me from all fronts........

I was trying to have a bit of a laugh with you after our little to-do that's all. And then read over all the comments. I'm am genuinely grateful to everyone.

Being the butt of your 'jokes' after I have tried to help and pass on some knowledge isn't really that funny to me...

It only makes people less willing to help people who ask genuine questions. Shan't bother next time, and will send them away with a flea in their ear. Does that make you feel good?

> It only makes people less willing to help people who ask genuine questions. Shan't bother next time, and will send them away with a flea in their ear. Does that make you feel good?

Hear hear!

> Does that make you feel good?

No, I feel dreadful. I noiced all the posts coming in and would read them later, towards the end I just thought there wouldn't be any more points, so I thought I would try and have fun with AndiK, but it wasn't funny at all. And I apologise prefussly. And totally understand it was rude, and I hope you all continue to answer other people's genuine questions.

Both my boys qualified at their 1st shows for Crufts and we have been once with one of them. Did nothing in the ring but he had a good time bouncing around and doing everything but show :-D

I like it, but don't. It does get too crowded and its no fun dragging your dog around the stalls and people, the general public even tut when a dog gets in their way - umm, its a dog show...
You have to be there by a certain time and are not allowed to leave until after 4pm, so makes for a long day.

Around the breed rings it is good fun and most people are in good spirits, maybe a tad nervous too.. I love shows just for a catch up with people who I may not of seen in a while..

Nova, I had just replied to your post, when you deleted. I said thank you for the info, but if your looked at what has taken place above, then you would feel the same as your fellow posters. I do apologies.

Ditto Suejaw...I get the point.

Brainless I'm really sorry.

> Has it ever been proven which has the highest success rate, bitches or dogs to go through for Best of Breed?

Dogs in many/most breeds win BOB more often than bitches.

In many breeds with a distinct sex difference the males look more imposing, will often have more attitude and will usually have a better/more coat due to hormones.

In my breed males win BOB on average at least twice as often as bitches.

> Ditto Suejaw...I get the point.

Huh?? You've lost me..

Iv'e never broken down staring at a computer screen before.

Suejaw,You will probably want to delete your post as well.

Sian,

Breath... Calm down..
I didn't know what you were referring to me about, but no worries...

I think with regards your jokes and trying to have a laugh with people is all well and good at the right times.
Start as you now mean to go on and people will be fine with you on here. Time and place :-D

sian owen - yes, I replied to a post higher up then realised my post made little sense when read after what had gone immediately before so deleted it.

No need to apologies to me I was not really involved but I do worry that you are OK - call me daft but one or two of your posts seem less than well thought out and I do wonder if you are feeling stressed, if so you can talk about it - however if I am totally wrong ignore me and continue as before I will know it is just you being you.

I think the way posts fall, and what you see while your posting (any new posts don't show until after you have posted) can lead to misunderstandings.

Sian has just not got the hang of the way it works out.

For example I didn't see all the posts after the BOB question, and just answered that only to find a whole new slant once I posted.

Sure no-one meant anything.

I thought everyone was going to answer my question and then press delete on purpose, and I wouldn't blame you. God it hurts.

Hey none of us really bite ;)

I think I need to take a break from here.