I'd very much appreciate some opinions on this.

My Leo pup has just finished her first season (10 mnths) and we won't be breeding from her.
Our breeder recommended waiting till over 2 till spaying, others in the breed have recommended waiting till 3yrs. The vet suggested after the first season around 18mths.

Apart from my own convienience, of not having to deal with her seasons etc and the risks of pyrometra, what would be other health benefits of spaying later? I understand that the risks of mammary tumors would be unaffected by doing it at a later age.T
The risks of a GA do concern me, our breeder told us Leos can be sensitive to anasthetics. The vet dismissed this as unlikely.

I've read about the increased risks of some bone cancers in spayed bitches and of incontinence. The vet said there was no increased risk of cancer in a spayed bitch.

I would like her spayed for my own convienience and her health if it would be worth it. But I don't want her operated on if there aren't really any benefits and may even be increased risks.

A giant breed has a a lot of developing to do, and if spayed before maturity they will not develop in chest as they should and the bone density will be compromised, giving less strong bones for a bulkier body.  Mentioned in this article.
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/neutr.html
This gives an overview of the whole issue
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

It is my opinion that the removal of growth hormones should not be undertaken until the dog is fully grown, particularly if your reason for buying a particular breed was because you admired the breed for their looks, character and temperament because animals neutered before maturity rarely if ever develop into the typical adult.

If your bitch has had a season now, then the next one would be due 16-18 months approx (could be longer though)& my vets like to spay at least 2 months to mid way between so this would be around the age of 20 months so I would say that would give her chance to mature both bodily & mentally.

your vets answers sound like he/she is covering their a$$ or trying to secure a sale. seriously, i would listen to folk in your breed :)

If it were me I'd let her have another season , by then she will of matured a lot more and as someone else has said wait at least two month after the season ends. My vets wait three months after.

I have had both cases of your concerns with my dogs , first my old spinone x was neutered young and she developed incontinence which has been treat for years with propalin .
Next is my young dogue who developed a mammary tumour at just two years 3 months old , we had her operated on and spayed at the same time , but another tumour has developed and my vet doesn't want to operate again. She will be three on 1st November and it is heartbreaking to know she won't have a long life. At least I can treat the incontinence in my spinone x.

Not all mammary tumours are malignant.

Not all mammary tumours are malignant.

And spaying only reduces the incidence it does not preclude it.

Thanks for the replies.

Brainless - Thank you for the links. It would seem the increased risks of cancers in spayed bitches applies to those spayed before a year.

I certainly want her grow up and as Giant breeds take about 3yrs to do so, I was thinking if we were to go ahead, I would wait till after the season she has after the of 2.

Cani1 - Sorry to hear you seem to have worst of both worlds!

My last Irish Setter wasn't spayed, on the breeders advice. Luckily, she only had seasons once a year and had a long and healthy life.
It seems this dilemma is half luck and half judgement.

I just wish you could get a more balanced view from the vets, after all, it's what they're paid for.

Cushings disease can be more prone to spayed dogs.  Will try and find the article.  That's not a nice thing for the dog to go through.

This post is helpful for me also!

Our 11 month old dobe pup started her first seson yesterday but she still has a lot of growing to do. We had always planned on getting her spayed after her first season but now i'm thinking that we let her reach full maturity before having her done.

Thyroid issues too.

She's finished her season over a week ago now. I've noticed she's all lumpy round her nipples. I hope this isn't a sign of potential problems. I don't remember this happening to any of my other dogs.

Cani1,why did your vet not want to operate again?

Hi freja
My vet doesn't want to operate again as the last one was aggresive , the told me the tumour would return , it would just be a question of when!

I posted on here at the time as she was having so many problems , her back leg filled with fluid to almost bursting point. She had such a tough time , her scar burst open etc, etc. The vet who owns the surgery took over her care as she was so ill , and it's his advice not to operate again as he thinks it will keep returning.

My bitch diagnosed with mammary adenosarcoma well over 2 yrs ago now. My vet told me life expectancy of 70days and that very complex surgery which she didn't want to undertake. I asked for referal, she was operated on and no recurrence ,no chemo either. She has chest xray every 6 months at the same time as she has ct scan. She has scan as she had rectal cancer the following year. She is 12 and is very fit dog. Externally, she did not display any signs of illness, she went to vet with the rectal cancer as she was licking her rear frequently. With the mammary I just felt the swelling.  I do feel for you,is awful sinking feeling when you hear the diagnosis.

I would listen to your dogs breeder and others in the breed.  My sister has a Leo from a good friend of ours who has owned them for over 20 years.  My sisters Leo is now 2 years old and will be spayed in the next year, they are a very slow maturing breed and I wouldn't have it done any earlier.

I'd also be concerned by a vet who doesn't know that Leo's can be really bad with anaesthetic.  I know a few people who have had problems with sedations and anaesthetics on their Leo's so please make your vet aware.

The problem with some vets is that they look at all dogs as the same and don't think about the breed itself and whats best for it. At least though Hairylegs the emergancy vets which your practice is linked to is very good :-), that is where I am and so very happy with them there. You could think about moving there anyway? The vet I normally see is fantastic and I think of him so highly and he will do research if he comes across something I read on here and he's not heard of it. What helps I think is that he breeds and shows so has a slightly different outlook to some other vets. He is there for the welfare of the animal not what makes money for the practice.

I would definately wait till she is at least 2 years old, look how mature she is then and re-evalute if you should wait longer.
By then you will also have an idea if she suffers from false pregnancies.

Your dogs breeder is right, Leonbergers can be sensitive to Anasthetics, I have had two of those myself.

On top of health issues/benefits, are you aware Leo's coat can be ruined by spaying and can be very difficult to look after?
Just one pointer to consider if two times a year few weeks season is easier to manage than a woolly mammoth all year round :) (I have had one of those too).

Pyometra is a risk but I don't think it is that common in a young healthy bitches and if caught early, can be treated.

I have had girls with little lumpy teats after seasons so I would just keep an eye to make sure the teats go back to normal.
If she is having a phantom pregnancy, her hormones are not back to normal till few months after her season.

Talking about phantoms, if my girl was suffering from bad phantoms, I would also spay when younger...
Phantoms can really mess them up for months. Season+phantom, we are looking at 3 months each cycle they are not "normal", three months normality and then the next season is due! In this case I would spay when they are about 2.5-3 years old as it is not nice for the dog or the owner to live with.

I have decided to keep all my future girls entire till they are little older and then spay to get rid the risk of having an old girl that gets pyometra.
Obviously 10 year old Leo in an emergancy operation would be very risky compared to a routine spay at 6 years old.

Please be very careful spaying your dog. Ask the right questions with your vet as they wont tell you about spay related incontience in bitchs, which is a very common condition, as I have found out. We have a 2 yr old boxer, spayed approx at 10mths old and she has been incontinant since. This is an ongoing problem and your lovely dog will be on hormone tablets for the rest of her life. Go onto the sites here and read everybodies comments. I agree with the other comments wait for a while maybe until she is at least 1-2 yrs old. That is if you can deal with her being in seasn for that long.