Hi All, want to enter Mid counties before midnight, can anyone tell me am I able to enter my 5.5 month puppy as NFC (cant get dogsitter)?
Thanks
Angela

I thought that they had to be 6 months unless a breed club show where they can be 4 months. Maybe an unentered dog tent, do they have one at this show?

As said before at a general champ show they have to be 6 months & other than leaving at home( not an option if no sitter) is to use the unentered dog tent.

guess i'm staying at home then :-( couldn't find anything in the schedule other than 'pups under 6 months not eligible for competition' Thanks Angela

Sadly it is only registered dogs over 6 months that are permitted to be entered NFC at Championship shows. Think it is for the welfare of the pups but may be it is time to reduce it to 4 months as at breed shows.

Was at a companion show yesterday and was shocked to see a pup of 14 weeks in the ring - against the rules but it is difficult to know who should police this at such shows where helpers are probably not dog people or are members of the charity being endowed with any profit.

There may be a tent for un-entered dogs or you could kennel for the day if you really wish to go.

> Was at a companion show yesterday and was shocked to see a pup of 14 weeks in the ring - against the rules but it is difficult to know who should police this at such shows where helpers are probably not dog people or are members of the charity being endowed with any profit.

What...how desparate are some people??? If it was run with KC permission it should still be KC Rules & those taking the entries should know the basic rules.

Thing is these owners are not really dog show people they have a dog and are having a day out with the family and supporting a charity - agree it is against the rules but not easy to inflict the KC rules on people who have never heard of the Red book and probably only think of the KC as being something to do with Crufts.

That's why I said its those who are TAKING the entries on the day, to tell the person that their dog is not old enough by 2.5 months to enter but they could make a donation to the charity.

Midland Counties is all inside, isn't it? So can't see there being any tents at all.

There may be one in the grounds worth asking if it important for you to go.

No dog show is so important that I would leave my baby with strangers :-) maybe leave her with my mum but wont know until the week before so wont be entering, but on the positive side there is Breed Club champ the following week where there is a Puppy Parade Yey!

Angela

I'm pretty sure if the old grey matter is working correctly that for shows held at stafford, they check the cars on the way out of the showground, in which casre you can take your puppy and leave them in the car so long as you see the show sec and get a removal pass for them to get out the showground.

Jill

>you can take your puppy and leave them in the car

For heaven's sake, only a fool would leave a dog unattended in a car! Years and years of education and campaigning have gone into trying to prevent this potentially lethal behaviour!

Jeangennie

With midland counties held in November I see no problem leaving a dog in the car with the owner popping back regularly to check it.   Yes I know it can still get hot in november but if the poster has their car kitted out their car with a cage or grill, then the temp is not going to get too hot for the puppy.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear as was rushing the post as on the train about to go underground!

Archiebongo, under the new Animal Welfare Act leaving a dog unattended in a car is considered to be putting an animal at risk, and the owner potentially faces prosecution.

The KC also advise against it;
NEVER

*Leave a dog unattended in a car, even with the window open and water available. Take them out of the car and leave them in a secure, cool place with access to shade and water.

When she was alive, I used to leave my old girl in the car whilst I showed at MC.  She was more comfortable in there than dragging her inside and I got a removal pass before I left so I could take her out.    Every time I've been at MC it's been windy & raining!

even if the OP was considering this, all champ shows i have been to at stafford county shows have the cars and vans checked and dogs counted before you leave so it wouldn't be possible.

Hi Jan - what about at agility shows there are no benches - or areas for crates near the rings - the only option is to leave dogs in cars - luckily nearly everyone has there cars kitted out and have shaded areas or gazebos for the dogs.

This is a bit worrying for me reading this - mind you they aren't left unattended for long usually to walk the course which is first thing - the boot is always left open and with a sunshade to cover them.

I would hope most show people are sensible - I guess its those that are stupid at the summer shows but then they shouldn't have dogs at all should they?

I haven't been to Stafford so no idea are the rings near the car park?  So the pup isn't left unattended for long periods?

I can see what Christine is saying I know one of my boys would prefer to be in the car than on a bench alone.

Can you post a link for us JG to read as guessing we are all out of touch?

>Can you post a link for us JG to read as guessing we are all out of touch?

RSPCA site. "Under the Animal Welfare Act you now have a legal duty to care for your animal and if you put your animal at risk, you could face prosecution. "

The weather needn't be hot for a dog to become distressed - a car alarm going off nearby can be enough to get some dogs agitated enough to overheat.

I took my girl as an underage puppy and put her in the unentered dogs tent once. She was fine, but I wouldn't do it again, the tent was on the other side of the showground to the breed ring and I spent the whole day galloping from one side of the showground to the other to check on either the entered dog or the puppy! Hopefully your mum will be able to take her.

Have to say Winter shows at Stafford showground always has dogs left in cars and vans - it is one of the most secure venues as there are limited exits and there is always someone who will check your removal pass against the number of dogs you have in the car, at most shows you can ask the secretary for an additional pass if you have bought a dog that has not been entered into the actual show, I have done it myself but did have to show the secretary the passes I had for the entered dogs.

During November with the tailgate open there is little chance that even the RSPCA could find fault, not that I have ever seen that breed present there.

I got a removal pass before I left so I could take her out

sorry to go slightly off topic but can you do this at all champ shows and do they charge you for them? just useful to know for future :)

and - to get back on topic-  i would personally prefer to leave my girl in my fully caged secure van - screen covered with reflective sheet - back doors open etc,  than leave her in an unentered dogs tent, i actually think it would be far more healthy for her than inside a hall with no air circulating.

NO, most shows have carparks outside the checking area, you are checked in and in some cases out of the actual show ground but I think Stafford is the only one where you are checked out of the car park.

So at most shows a dog in a car or the un-entered tent has not actually been inside the show area - at Stafford the security starts at the gate to the carpark so to my way of thinking is the safest of shows to leave a dog in a car but it should be remembered that nothing is 100% safe. Remember a few years back a dog was taken from the benches and through a hedge by children at the Midland Counties Show.

>i would personally prefer to leave my girl in my fully caged secure van - screen covered with reflective sheet - back doors open etc,  than leave her in an unentered dogs tent, i actually think it would be far more healthy for her than inside a hall with no air circulating.

I would leave mine safe at home.

> NEVER
>
> *Leave a dog unattended in a car, even with the window open and water available. Take them out of the car and leave them in a secure, cool place with access to shade and water.

In practical terms this would make most open shows held in Sports halls impossibly crowded if people did not keep some of the dogs in the car in the winter/cooler months.

TBH so would I, ok they might be a little lonely, they might miss a lunch, but it won't kill them once in a blue moon if it's a show you really really don't want to miss, and you will just have a floor to mop when you get back.

>I would leave mine safe at home.

Really can't see the problem if you are positive that they cannot overheat - most dogs consider the car as an extension of home, they love to go out in it particularly to shows where they will meet and greet and take a walk in new surrounds, why shut them in at home when they can be with you.

Would only be happy if she was within sight of me or a trusted friend at the show, so personally would never use the unentered dog tent, hopefully mum will be able to take her and I can go do some shopping :-) and get 'my fix' that way ;-)
She has her first show on 21st November (6 months on the day) where does time go!
Thanks all
Angela

Do understand how you feel but if you have more than one dog you will have to leave one either on the bench or in the car and at Stafford I would have no problem leaving one in the car during the winter you can at least lock access to them something very difficult on a bench unless you use a cage. Mind you I am speaking as someone who is on there own if you always have someone with you it is not really a problem.

I have to say that I would not leave my girls in my car regardless of the temperature out side. I take a crate to all shows (open, champ and even companion) and they are crated when we are not exercising. I do not leave them crated for hours on end either. However, I have seen some estate cars fitted properly and professionally with crates in the boot which allow the boot door to be left open and I commonly see this at shows. The dogs left always seem happy enough, the only thing that worries me then is the security of the dogs... I do not have one of those fitted crates and have never had a proper nose around one (only have a little car, really want/need a bigger car....)

In my OH car we have a crate in the boot and I have left them in there when I have nipped into the shop for 10 mins but generally if I cant take my girls or if the OH or my mum cant look after them then I dont go.

I am siding with the lady who has posted the links about leaving dogs in cars. I think that some of the suggestions on this page does undo all of the good work done by the KC and show organisers and I certainly would not leave a puppy in a car alone regardless of how often I could keep popping back and check on pup.

Sorry if I sound anal, this is just my opinion.

Siding with Jeangenie..... Thats the lady I am referring too LOL

> The weather needn't be hot for a dog to become distressed - a car alarm going off nearby can be enough to get some dogs agitated enough to overheat.

My dogs pant in the summer, my dogs pant in the winter - it's a Munster thing - but it doesn't mean they are distressed.   In fact they are far more comfortable in my car  and feel more secure than they do on show benches.  Inside show venues can become stuffy & overheated very quickly.  And along with unruly children and people who forget a dog show is for dogs & not for them shopping, yep, I'd rather mine were in my car!

>Inside show venues can become stuffy & overheated very quickly.

They're not unattended, though. You're on hand to deal with any situation, which is what the law wants.

If I leave my dogs in my house to go shopping, they are unattended!

But they're not in a car! The law isn't about leaving dogs unattended per se - it's about leaving them in a potentially hazardous situation; that's what breaches the AWA.

As a single person who doesn't have the luxury of
a) having someone at home to look after the veteren and
b) someone at shows to help me when I am showing more than one dog
I have no option other than to leave one or two of my dogs in the car.  That's why I spent almost £500 getting it fitted out with custom built cages so that I could leave the tailgate open (for short periods and fully padlocked) when I couldn't be in two places at once. Maybe I should just pack it in and stop showing.  I also take the dogs to the supermarket (but not in the height of summer) and leave them in the car then.  Maybe they would be better off shut up in kennels all day (as happens with many dogs). I speak not as a newcomer but as someone who has owned, shown and bred their chosen breed for 30 years with a degree of success. 

Inside show venues can become stuffy & overheated very quickly.

They're not unattended, though. You're on hand to deal with any situation, which is what the law wants.

Whilst i completely understand where you are coming from and i applaud you i would just like to say that :

a) my dog doesn't like being on the bench and gets very stressy
b) how many times do you hear people being asked to return to their bench as their dog is in distress
c) not sure if i can trust the people walking past OR the dogs benched either side of you

In the days when I was showing I used to stay with my dog; either at the bench or, if I wanted to watch the judging, I took the dog (contrary to KC rules, but my dog's safety and happiness was more important to me) with me. If I needed to go to the loo then I asked a trusted fellow shower to keep an eye on her. Going to shows was my lifestyle choice; by my reckoning it would be unfair to put my dog at risk. I tried showing two dogs a couple of times, but having to leave one unattended while showing the other was too stressful for me so if I was going alone I went back to alternating which dog I took to shows.

Although it's quite rural, luckily I don't live in the back of beyond so I had nearby friends or neighbours (I'm not quite a social leper!) who would pop into my house while I was out for the day to make sure the other dogs were all right and to take them into the garden, so I didn't have to worry about them.

jacksgirl,

You basically echo my life too.   I have shown since the late 80's, have left my unentered  dogs in my car where NFC has been impractical, live on my own, can't afford dog sitters, would never dream of kennelling them etc.   They certainly don't look like they have suffered for it!

99% of people competing at agility leave their dogs in the car for part of the day unattended. They are all kitted out for the hot weather & I have never heard any calls put out, as none are in distress. People are returing to their cars, past all the others cars all day. I bought a reflective tarpaulin to put over the whole of the car, including windows, they are left open anyway & I also had a tailgate tailor made. The back of the car is fully open. I always leave water obviously & would never leave my dogs in any distress, as would none of the other competitors.

The main difference between Agility and Obedience shows and the big championship conformation events is that most often the car parking is well away from the competition area, so it is not possible to keep an eye on your car. 

Hard enough to keep an eye on your dogs that are benched while competing in a ring away from the benches.

At Open shows dogs are often left in vehicles with tailgates up, but the car-parking is usually right next to the showing venue.

I am not sure of the legality of anyone 'checking' a vehicle for the number of dogs etc...it's a bit like the rules for food in the agility ring...some folk would like it to be 'no food to be carried' but there is no legal way of checking people for food in their pockets...my vehicle is my vehicle and no one has the right (at shows) to stick their head in and count...imo...what legal basis do they have for doing this?  I can see them checking dogs in and out of a show when on a lead, but in a car? 

As for leaving in vehicles - dogs will be happier and more secure in a caged vehicle than on a bench, even if caged.  Their own space so much better.  I can understand it's difficult in a car park where everyone else is inside, but no reason why dog should be insecure or overheating.  That's what we have reflective or white sheets for, and why we have cages to keep them inside when the tailgate etc is open.  My dogs have always been cool and happy in my vehicle.  Now I have a big white van it's even nicer for them - we can have doors open or not, it's still cool.

Not sure I'd leave one dog alone in a car park though, but probably preferable to being in a tent with lots of dogs and people he/she didn't know.  It can also get very hot in a tent (however big)

The do have the right to check your car if you have dogs in it and certainly at Stafford if you do not let them look at the dogs and the number they will not let you out so you do have a choice but not much of one.

>my vehicle is my vehicle and no one has the right (at shows) to stick their head in and count...imo...what legal basis do they have for doing this?

In law a car is a 'public place'; remember the case of Otis, the crossbreed that was seized in the early days of the DDA for being unmuzzled in his owner's car?

Not when it refers to anything else....ie smoking etc...I think you've every right to not let them look in your car unless they are the Police

> I think you've every right to not let them look in your car unless they are the Police

Well I for one have no problem letting them look inside my boot, as I know if someone had my dog I would want them to stop a car which potentially had my dog in.

If you have entered the show then you will have signed to say that you will obey and agree to the KC Rules & Regs. one of which refers to the removal of dogs from cars and the inspection of cars at the show, so if you are upset by the idea of someone authorised by the show committee looking in your car or van then it is best not to enter the show.

Well when entering a show you agree to be bound by the rules, so this includes checking in and out of the show.

>Not when it refers to anything else....ie smoking etc

If it's a company car or works vehicle then yes, the no smoking in the workplace law applies.