i put a ad on a few days ago about my girl not wanting to stand for the stud dog....well she has now decided that she is ready to stand for him day 14 the thing is she is still bleeding..it has slowed down alot from when her heat first started she is a big girl (ddb) and was bleeding quite heavy... but im worried that there could be something wrong as i would have expected the bleeding to change to the straw type colour but its still very red..

she is very flirty with our 9 month old same breed to the point where the 9month old is getting very annoyed as its constant she wont leave her alone for 5 minutes and she is also very keen to be with the dog they did tie once but just a minute or so but im very reluctant to take her back tomorrow because of the bleeding

thanx for any advice..

Many bitches haven't read the books that say the discharge should change colour, and so they bleed all the way through. ;-) Doesn't stop them getting pregnant though.

thank you...as might tell im a worrier...but she is my baby :) im just wanting things to go as smoothly as possible so seeking advice as much as i can...

I have a had a bitch bleed up to about day 30, and still conceive after mating on days 15 - 18.

If I had been looking for change in colour of discharge I would never have bred a single litter, Now into 6 generations of breeding.

Same as Barbara, I don't think I can ever have seen straw colour!  :-)

One girl in particular bleeds heavy, and has longer than usual seasons.  She is still bleeding when mated, and it continues afterwards, until the end of a normal season.

She still conceives though!  Don't worry.  :-)  :-)

well thank you for that...i feel loads better now :) so i will be taking her back 2day

Hi have bread your breed for 10 years now and i must say they do like to worry you lol thats why we ove them!! I have had bitches carry on bleeding for 10 days after mating and they have bled dark blood and still been in pup. I also have a girl that wasn't ready to be mated till day 35 YES 35 and she still bled after and did have a beautiful litter. Not all dogs are text book especialy this breed they can be quite hard to breed. I also have bulldogs and there even WORSE!!! just try to relax now and wait and see, but i know how hard that is

i have had her back today and shes standing for him but they just will not tie :( it is really frustrating lol she is sure giving me plenty to think about...anyway it has been suggested that we artificially inseminate her tomorrow as we dont know how much longer she will stand for the dog have you ever done this with your bordeaux or has any one done it with there dog,the breeder whos stud dog we are using has done it many time with his own bitches due to the fact they so hard to breed....thanx :)

> it has been suggested that we artificially inseminate her tomorrow

The kennel club will not register puppies by Artificial Insemination carried out between two dogs both resident in the UK except I believe in the case of Wolfhounds where the stud is over 9 years of age.  http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/478
"*The General Committee will not normally accept an application to register an AI litter if the donor male is alive and domiciled in the United Kingdom, with one exception namely that Irish Wolfhounds of 8.5 years or older and domiciled in the UK can be used as donors in AI."

>anyway it has been suggested that we artificially inseminate her tomorrow

If you use AI you will not be able to register the puppies, unless you're going to lie to the KC and the future owners of your puppies; that would be fraud and would leave you open to legal action.

>the breeder whos stud dog we are using has done it many time with his own bitches due to the fact they so hard to breed.

He should be ashamed of himself. He is blatantly breaking KC regulations, which are in place for the good of the breeds as a whole.

well i wont be doing that then..i want to be able to register my puppies i had no idea about that.

From my experience and others reproductive behaviour (mating, whelping and mothering) seem to have Strong hereditary elements. 

Enabling animals that cannot reproduce themselves naturally is a slippery slope which could result in future generations becoming more and more unable/willing to do so.  This is why the Kennel club has always been careful about when or if it allows AI.

This has already happened with regards to C sections in some breeds.

I would also in your shoes be asking myself how far you can trust a stud dog owner who is quite happy to break rules?  If they are willing to lie about how they get bitches pregnant what else may they be less than honest about, meaning health or temperametn issues in the offspring or dogs.

i have got a 9 month old from him and she has no problems what so ever...but she wasnt the offspring of AI i trusted him due to the fact i had getting the pup from him and do know that the dog we are using has also had all the checks needed as i wanted to see proof of this he is also very well bred and already being placed high so i was really wanting to use him..but we not havin any luck what so ever its maybe just not meant to be

> but we not havin any luck what so ever its maybe just not meant to be

when you say your not having any luck, is the stud dog 'trying' as if he is a experienced male and he isnt trying then she isnt ready, (or even gone over if you have had one tie) a good experienced dog will know not to bother until the time is right. My first litter was just one mating as thats all we could get and she went on to have 10 healthy babies.

I also own your breed and they are not always easy to mate or whelp so if it is your first litter you will want a good mentor to help you right the way through.

yes he is trying and she is standing for him they did have a tie but it was a minure if that then 2 slips the following day
could that have beed enough?
it is my first time breeding this type of dog i have been told they can be hard to breed and whelp i have a friend that has bred them for years who has said he will help me with the breeding and whelping if needed but it just so happens he is on holiday at the moment but if she does take he will be here at least for the birth.

i will try her once more today

The length of the tie is not important, ti is just preferable to have a tie as you know for sure that the dog has ej*culated, with a slip they may have (if contact was for a minute or more) or may not.  the tie is primarily achieved but the contractions of the bitches muscles around the engorged bulbous glandis of the dog.

A lot of people say if you don't get a tie it is still a bit early, but this may just be an old wives tail.

Does the stud normally tie with most matings?

It does seem that in some breeds slip matings are almost the norm.  One way to keep contact is for the stud owner to stand behind the dog once he is mounted and hold him so he does not try to dismount to turn for at lest a couple of minutes, but this may be difficult without extra sets of hands to help support the weight of the dog on the bitch for  a longer period with such a large breed.  Quite easy to hold a tiny toy stud onto a usually larger toy breed bitch, single handed, or with a medium size dog to wrap your arms round the pair from behind the dog.

I would keep trying with her until she signals that she has had enough and goes over.

well she has been again he is still very keen and she is still standing but still no tie just another slip....

he has tied with some girls but others he hasnt...

they have said to go back again and try tomorrow but i think i will just leave it now see if she has taken

How long was contact maintained during the slips, did anyone try holding him in place? 

Did he do the ladder climbing, which is usually done during e*jaculation. 

You don't need a tie for conception to occur, just it is a better indicator that the males  goods have been delivered.

How many days since she first stood?

Have pups resulted from any of the slip matings he had with other bitches when there was no tie?

yes he was held in place for all 3 slips we have had for a short time and yes he did do the ladder climbing the stud owner had old of his bits trying to keep it in all 3 times and said he done he stuff so to say she first started standing on wednesday that was the day we got a tie for a minute then the following day 2 slips then we missed saturday went today and got another slip....

no pups from the slip but it was the breeders bitch and he said he thinks he had missed her...

we cant have missed my girl as she has been going to him since day 9 and she didnt want to know till day 13..

could it be she just not ready? 1 of my girls didnt mate probley till day 20 somthing with a very good tie ,i would keep taking her till she wouldnt stand at all for him you never know they could have a good tie next time? but good luck x

I'd agree but they generally don't stand longer than about 5 - 6 days.

well i wasnt going to bother taking her back its day 5 today of her standing so i guess it ouldnt harm to try her once more tomorrow....she is still though very very frisky with our other dogs at home

Hi gemz82, I once had a bitch come to be mated to one of my stud dogs, and although they mated 3 times over a 3 day period, a tie was not achieved. BUT, guess what??? a litter of 15........YES. 15, waas the outcome. Don't give up just yet!

jaycee wow thats great well fingers x it works for us...i will give them another go tomorrow then i think she should be about done as she has already been going to him 5 days...

one of my girls went to stud a few years ago and from day 12 all we could achieve was a slip, i just thought it wasnt going to happen and then on the last day we were going to try day 17...bingo a 20 minute tie...result 12 babies. Definately keep trying until one dog is not interested anymore.

Also i have a male who is very difficult to get tied, he always does the ladder climbing and always goes through the tie process (swollen bulbus and producing fluid for around 20 mins) but it seems he gets too excited and his bulb swells outside the bitch. I have just achieved a good tie with him and a bitch by going behing him once he starts the tip toeing and bear hugging both dogs, hey presto he tied, then i turn him and wait like normal. Cant the stud owner squash him in place...you have to hold very tight...it took me 4 goes to get it and now it will be wait and see what the result is.

Good luck :)

we have tried the going behind him and keeping him in place and still nothing...we have tried everything to be honest :( it could be my bitch maybe as its her first time....i will take her again 2day and that will be it as it will be day 6 of her standing and she shouldnt want to stand much longer im hoping that the little tie and slips have been enough..

> Also i have a male who is very difficult to get tied, he always does the ladder climbing and always goes through the tie process (swollen bulbus and producing fluid for around 20 mins) but it seems he gets too excited and his bulb swells outside the bitch. I have just achieved a good tie with him and a bitch by going behing him once he starts the tip toeing and bear hugging both dogs, hey presto he tied,

That is what I was trying to get across, ;)

well she has finished standing for him so i just hope what little has been done has done the trick....how long is till they start to show any signs?...

Sorry now the agonising wait starts.  This is the killer.  She might show an increased appetite (sorry can't thing how to spell today) soon.  mine had one about 2 weeks later and started sleeping alot but she had a phantom and was sick once right on the mark for being sick.  She came out of it about half way through.  I treated her as in whelp just in case the scan was wrong.

My breeder has managed pups several times with just a slip mating.

well i have just booked her on for a scan in 4 weeks...its going to be the longest 4 weeks ever i can feel it.i dont like waiting at the best of times waiting to see if im going to be a granny is going to kill me..