Well done to Rachel's kids with Jess getting End in the lower gundog age group and Emily getting through to the first cut in the upper gundog age group.

How did everyone elses juniors get on?

> Jess getting End

You mean 2nd!!! ;-)

Yes she did very well as did Emily in a very large class i'm told...

Oops! That's that happens when I post whilst on my mobile! :D

Yes well done Jess for your 2nd & her sister Emily for being pulled out in the older age group.  Whilst unplaced I was secretly impressed with my dd, Emily for handling a very clingy bitch in the young gundog group.  Her patterns were great but she has a habit of not concentrating at the moment.  She also stacked her dog very well, which probably went un-noticed as the Spanish are a very different "gundog" to "stack".
i have to say, what I'm most proud of is the way she cared for the dog post-showing, unprompted (water, hugs, treats) & the fact that both she & the dog were happy.

Well done all the winners, but well done all those unplaced this year & here's to the next round of qualifiers eh?!

Thanks everyone - really proud of my girls - considering Emily only started handling Vinnie this week - Tuesday in fact! think she did well and really pleased she made the first shortlist :)  Over the moon with both girls and Jess getting a 2nd :) :)  A very proud mum indeed.

CJ I thought Emily did really well and she's only young yet!  Love her attitude :)  Oh and I want her sparkly pink shoes!

Maddog,

That's lovely to hear about your daughters attitude! So refreshing. Well done to her anyway :) being placved isn't everything.

we sort of had a good day rhiannon was 3rd in the younger working group, there was 2 acidents on the way to the show on sat and the great dane she was handeling did not make it there in time so she had to take in our maddie, who is sporting a nice phamtom at the moment and does not really want to be there.

As for leigh-anns class i was so angry it had over run like it did last year and the breed judging had started she asked if she could leave the ring to quickly take chas into the breed class to be told she could not because there was only 2 dogs behind her, i explained that there was only 4 in his limit breed class but was told if she left the ring she would not be able to go back in with him, leigh-ann took the choice to go into the breed ring with him, they had let a young girl leave the ring for her husky class and at the cut one girl was in the ring without a dog as the dog had been taken by its owner to go into the breed class and they had waited around for her.

I think this was so unfair on leigh-ann and myself as we have to pay for the dog to be entered into a breed class so they can be there for the kids to show and so should be able to leave the ring for breed classes.

It always annoys me when judges won't wait a few minutes, let alone at something as important as these semi finals!! I was at an open show once and had 4 in my Veteran class, in the meantime they reached open in my breed class, my other dog was the only unseen dog in that class along with 1 seen dog, and the breed judge refused to wait, although there was only 1 more veteran to be gone over. So some total strangers that were standing next to my crate had to take Ellie in for me, needless to say she was 2nd of 2 with total strangers trying to handle her.

I think they need to rethink the semis as its is unfair - despite  starting an hour earlier its obviously not enough to avoid the breed clashes is it?

I'm sure that alot of the gundog 12-16 dogs missed their breed class today.  Its not as if Richmond wasn't expensive to enter.  Either they need to rethink and do the semis away from a champ show or provide the option to enter the handling only taking away the panic of losing entry fees?

Well done everyone who took part :)  I'm sure you all did great :)

Its a shame when they work so hard to get there and they cant compete, my neice was unable to take a school day off, they always have hounds and toys on the friday, i do wish they would rotate, so all get a chance to be there

The rules actually say the dog must be entered and shown in another class other than handling.

Well done to all who took part, I hope that you have enjoyed the experience.

We decided not to enter as my two eldest children had qualified, the expense didn't warrant the journey and risk that we might miss the breed classes.  Also as this is held after the first week back at school I didn't feel that the children could cope with a 450 mile round trip, or that I could!

sorry to hear that Denise, well done to rhionnon and also to leigh-ann, lets hope they change the times for next year.

I know Barbara that's what tickles me - they won't wait for you in breed and they won't wait for them in handling - catch22!  For the semis definitely a rethink needs to be done!

Maybe you as parents need to get together and do an en-mass complaint about it all and if the KC has rules about that the dog has to be present in the breed class that they either do a day of handling seperate or they put on the handling earlier or later in the day.. But having lots of complaints i'm sure to the JHA and KC would work?

So proud of my daughter Megan for getting into the final cut of 13 in the 12 - 16 age group Gundogs today.  She's only been showing 2 years and we've only owned a dog for 4 years so we were really pleased.

It was a lot to ask of them though, there were 45 entries for the class and it took 2 1/2 hours to judge. Full marks to the judge for working his way through them. However, she missed the first breed class and just got into a second class by skin of teeth and good will of the judge.  Then it was only because she wasn't placed that she got there literally at the run!  Since her dog is only 16 months old he was a good honest lad to land in the breed class and show again to get a reserve.  There were others who will have missed their classes.  We had worked on last year taking 1 1/2 hours and thought we'd be just about OK with the handling class starting 1 hour earlier than breed.  The veteran dog in our breed was the only entrant in his breed class but was still in the handling at the time and therefore missed out on competing - what a shame for his young handler

Whilst the handling class was initially split into 2, the one half were excused from the ring whilst the first group were judged, but when other classes finished in the BIS ring, the ring was expanded and the second half brought back into the ring BUT the first group had to remain in the ring albeit the judge did tell them they could relax as they were not being judged

I accept that in other shows, we must make a choice of breed or JHA, but it would be nice if Richmond was different.  If I understand the rules correctly, to be in the handling class they must enter the breed class.  The definition of enter is to be physically in the ring so how are they supposed to do this when a class goes on way longer than expectations.  If they win the handling, are they then disqualified because they could not get to the breed?  The class we missed was just at the point that she made the first split and I would not of asked her to leave for the breed at that point.  They've worked hard to qualify for the opportunity to compete and this is their show, breed can take precedence at any other champ show.

I feel I'm too new at this game to be complaining, but it is a real shame if the stress of being in two places at the same time puts off young talent wanting to take part at Richmond.

Well done to everyone taking part over the 3 days - hope you all enjoyed it and see you next year!

it was my niece first time in the semis and gained fourth place out of 23 she has only been showing in handleing for just over a yr she was in the 12-16 pastoral and the judge worked all the handlers so hard she made 2-3 short list and i have never seen a judge test the handlers on so many patterns it was a tough semi finals with excellent handlers they should be all proud of there selfs

Maybe you as parents need to get together and do an en-mass complaint about it all and if the KC has rules about that the dog has to be present in the breed class that they either do a day of handling seperate or they put on the handling earlier or later in the day.. But having lots of complaints i'm sure to the JHA and KC would work?

This is only a feeling I have but think the KC, who now have their own version of JH, are not going to put themselves out for the JHA, I may be totally wrong, I do hope so.

Mind you the running order and class arrangements is down to the show society so perhaps that is where the complaints should be placed I don't think that even the JHA can demand when the classes are held.

For YKC handling does the dog have to have been entered in another class?

With all the bad publicity over the last few years about dog showing etc. perhaps the KC should take a look at dogs being stood in a ring for 2 and a half hours, then off to the breed ring to stand in another class etc.  On a hot September day (ok it wasn't that hot but some years when it isn't a mudbath.... ;-)), dogs doing all this etc. etc. 

I feel for those who missed their breed classes, £25/£27 is not cheap to throw away.  If it hadn't been for the Semi's I wouldn't have entered Richmond at all this year (or gone!)

Personally, I would rather pay a bit more for JHA/YKC handling classes if I didn't have to enter the dog in the breed class.  At open shows we're normally AVNSC anyway. 

Maybe another thread should be started to see what people's opinion's are on this?  If there is a well thought out proposal that we could put forward to KC then they might at least listen?

Not sure this is the KC, the show society organise the classes - the schedules are submitted to the KC but I don't think they would change the arrangements made unless they were against any rules.

As to time spent in the ring this is the responsibility of the handlers and the judge, if it is very hot and the ring is in the open then the judge has been known to split the class, the handler can shield the dog by making a shadow with their body but most dogs can manage to be outside for the time it takes to be shown and when it is very hot people use wet towels or insulating blankets.

TBH if you are really worried about the heat then you don't go, we really have to do as we think best and I do not thing we need any more rules there are plenty already - it seems the norm these days to expect the government, employers or organisers to take fully responsibility for every single thing and when they do the next complaint is we live in a nanny state. 

My nephew was in the first half of the 12-16 Gundog group - a very large class even when split, it took exactly an hour to judge their section.  However, the steward was perfectly OK about him leaving the ring to dash up to do PG in the breed, explained it was his decision to make in case he did not get back in time.  The 2nd half judging was completed a lot quicker, but he still made it back with about 3 dogs left to be seen  - worth making the dash as he won PG.  Didn't get placed  in the semis as his triangle hand an extra corner:) .  Judge told him to "do a triangle using all of the corners" and under the pressure of the event he latched on to the "All of the corners" interpreting it as the 3 corners of the ring away from the judge, forgetting this made a square when he got back to the judge!  Think the judge probably meant to make full use of the corner, not add an extra one!

his triangle hand an extra corner

Bless him, an honest mistake, he was obviously "thinking outside of the box" ;-)

Well done on the PG win too.  It's a big day for all the juniors however big or small.

Here's to next year everybody :-D

Do the JHA Semi Finals HAVE to be held in conjunction with a show (other than traditionally it has been accommodated by Richmond)?  Why could it not be a stand alone competition with all the groups judged by different judges but on the same day.  I think I'm right saying that the Adult handling qualifiers end up in a "show" of it's own? 

As someone who has not had a show dog of Championship material, I do begrudge having to pay such a high entry fee for a breed class that I was not going to win and therefore not remotely likely to be in the running for a CC on offer that warranted the level of entry fee.  Furthermore, there was a chance I might miss the class completely too.  I would be better off entering the handling and having to pay a fee and not have the stress of trying to ensure they are in 2 places at the same time.  The woes of competing with a young dog still in the Puppy/Junior/Yearling dog in early classes!

The YKC handling is slightly different in that there is an opportunity for the non-show dogs to also enter.  There are however fewer opportunities to qualify for Crufts (less classes on offer around the country) and only the first placed from the class goes through.

My girls were qualified but we didn't enter, a shame as they are both doing well (Placed in their YKC classes at Crufts, and previously placed at Richmond)

Main reason is my oldest daughter is now in year 11 and couldn't afford to take a day off school, I too, think the breeds should be rotated

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