I visit numerous animal shelters as part of my work/interest (and have done so over the last 20 years) and notice a common norm developing for 'maximum time dog can be left policy' of 4 hours.

Of course, some rescue dogs have behavior/ training/age problems which would be exacerbated by being left unattended - but what about the others?

I appreciate there is an interesting cross section of new, old,  general rescue, breed rescue, rescuers and breeder members on this forum and if anyone gets a minute, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this rehoming/adoption policy.

Thank you!

I'm not involved in rehoming, but I have just turned down a request for a puppy from a full time worker.  Not for the first time.

Dogs are companion animals, and being left for 8 hours a day isn't companionship.  Living alone, I have no option but to work full time.  (Have to keep a roof over the heads of me and my canines.)

But I have a dog sitter during the day.  So mine are used to human company.  I put my heart and soul into socialising them, and expect the new owners to continue with my good work.  There is nothing worse than seeing 12 month old dogs advertised, because people have found that they made the wrong decision in buying a pup.

And they complain that they aren't housetrained.  Telling puppy off for peeing in the kitchen because it couldn't wait 8 hours to toilet.

>I visit numerous animal shelters as part of my work/interest (and have done so over the last 20 years) and notice a common norm developing for 'maximum time dog can be left policy' of 4 hours.
>Of course, some rescue dogs have behavior/ training/age problems which would be exacerbated by being left unattended - but what about the others?

Miranda, are you thinking that the norm should be longer than 4 hours?  

>Of course, some rescue dogs have behavior/ training/age problems which would be exacerbated by being left unattended - but what about the others?

It's a welfare issue; 4 hours is a long time for a social animal to be left alone. Too much solitary confinement and boredom can bring on behavioural problems which weren't there before, and a toilet break will be needed. I wish potential owners would time how long they can hang on during the day before going to the lavatory and realise that an adult. housetrained dog will be the same. I don't know any fulltime worker who uses their home lavatory before they go to work in the morning and then doesn't use one again until they get home in the evening! Of course an un-housetrained one will just pee and poo when it needs to - and will often then get told off when the owner comes home. :-( Most unfair.

I don't usually leave mine longer than 3 hours if i can help it.  Sometimes its unavoidable.  i wouldn't do it everyday or several times a week though.  When I'm at work, my mother always has them.

I think four hours could be ok but it would be nice if there was more than one dog for company.  its not fair on one dog being on their own, they must be board and young ones need the exercise and discipline to make them nice social dogs.

I'm with Jeansw all the way.  My breeder made sure that mine wouldn't be left for long hours, i wouldn't have got the dog otherwise.

I suppose if it was the case of giving a dog a home or being pts/living at the rescue, we need to think what's best for the dog and see what compromises there are.  An older dog that might like the peace and quiet might cope with someone looking in on them.  I even feel sorry for the cat being left all day so its not something I could willingly do.

My aunts neighbour keeps an eye on hers when she's out for the day, they leave the back door open for him and go round at least twice.  This is over an 8hr period.

I'm going to be shot down for this but if there is more than one dog and they have access to go outside, to me up to 8 hours is ok.
Not for a youngster but mature dogs.
Most dogs if used to being left from young (dog walker/neighbor coming in few times during the day) are perfectly ok mentally even if left whilst the owner goes to work.
My girls are left for 7 hours 2 days a week and if I thought I'm harming them somehow, I would not be doing it.
I had a dog walker coming in but they refused to go for a walk with her and the older one was obviously not very happy having a stranger in her house whilst we were not there, just tolerating it but definitely happy to see the back of the dog walker and get back to relaxing by themselves!

I'm going to relate to my country of origin again.
In Finland most people work full time, most mother return to work after having their maternity leave etc. People still have dogs and well looked after dogs for that.
If you as a breeder would not sell for anybody who works full time, people would think you are nuts!
Of course in many cases there are families where people work in different shifts etc so in reality the dog is not left 8 hours, 5 days a week...
School kids also go home early afternoon and spend the afternoon at home until the parents return from work.

People in general are much more active with their dogs with the time they do spend with the dog, take part to shows, training etc...
Walk them everyday, not done by many dog owners in UK dare I say, even if they are home all day!
Rescue issues are nothing like here in UK!

"Miranda, are you thinking that the norm should be longer than 4 hours?" (sorry for cut and paste - I couldn't see how to do the quote thing!).My personal opinion is that (and I can only speak with experience in regard to rescue) that I would prefer to see more flexibility. 

Perhaps I should have phrased the question differently so that the discussion doesn't become one about what is right or wrong - but what people actually do in their daily lives in regard to how long their dog/s are left.

Thank you for your input!

I don't think you can put a number on this to be honest. Like humans, dogs are individual and should be treated as such. You cannot put dogs into a box and say "any longer than 4 hours and it's cruel".

The puppy - 4 hours is too long
The adult with separation anxiety - 4 hours is too long
The adult who often takes herself off to a quiet area of the house for the entire evening (and I have one of these!) - more than 4 hours doesn't pose any issues
The same adult who develops a UTI - 4 hours is too long

It's about knowing your dog and recognising their individual needs at any given time.

I agree with Colliecrew - there is no one 'correct answer' . It depends entirely on the dog. For a puppy 4 hours is too long but I have left my adult dogs for 8 hours and they have been fine. This is not on a long term basis and I never tell them off for accidents if they have been left for a longer time than normal. Both my OH and I work full-time but my parents live next door and the dogs see them and get taken for walks each day. When my parents and OH went off on holiday the dogs were left for 8 hours each day until I got home and I did think about putting them in kennels for the week but they were absolutely fine and happy at home for that week.

I think when rehoming you have to consider all the factors, someone working fulltime may be an ideal owner if they have considered what the dog will do during that time. In the past my OH has taken dogs to work with him. You can't simply dismiss the full time worker it should be a discussion.

each dog is differant. some folk may leave a dog for 4 hours, without having had a walk, before or after being left. My girls get a good free run every morning whatever the weather, and also a walk when I get home. I leave for four hours, although I know they would be good for 5hrs. they are all adult dogs. If i have a puppy then it goes with me as i am in the fortunate position that I can take with me and toilet and walk as needed. I am involved with rescue and am amazed athe the peole that work full time and yet think they will be able to get a dog.

each dog is differant. some folk may leave a dog for 4 hours, without having had a walk, before or after being left. My girls get a good free run every morning whatever the weather, and also a walk when I get home. I leave for four hours, although I know they would be good for 5hrs. they are all adult dogs. If i have a puppy then it goes with me as i am in the fortunate position that I can take with me and toilet and walk as needed. I am involved with rescue and am amazed athe the peole that work full time and yet think they will be able to get a dog.

I just turned down a request for a pup from a girl who works full time. She does get home at lunch time but even so, I think it is far too long to leave an very young pup. On top of that she has a one year old golden, so another reason to turn her down. Two pups left alone for hours. It didnt take her long to find someone who would sell her a pup though. ah well.
My particular breed are very people orientated and would find it very upsetting to be left for more than a couple of hours. Having said that, people do need to work so its just a case of finding that happy medium really and if you have to be out for hours, finding someone who will come in and spend time with the dogs, take them walks etc. As my old mother used to say. There's always a way!!

> It didnt take her long to find someone who would sell her a pup though. ah well.
>

I know what you mean - but then, you have a clear conscience!  If you have put in all the work to end up with a lovely, happy, friendly puppy - why would you want to let it go, only to be left alone.

I do agree that it's possible to find a way.  I would hate not to have my dogs, so have made arrangements around my working day.  As you say - there's always a way.  Just needs a bit of thought.

I am so pleased to read that you turned down buyer for a puppy, you and others on here are obviously not just breeding for the money.  So many so called breeders do - I know 1 of them.  I had a dog from a shelter who was taken there at 10pm; the manager told me he nearly turned them down. The dog wasn't wanted because he had wrecked the bathroom where he was shut in during the day while they were" at work" + pub - I say this in view of 10pm bit.    The first time I went to groom this dog,the instant he saw the brush he started yelping and the same thing happened when i took the leads from the cupboard. I groomed the other dog first and he watched and then I put the lead on her. Needless to say she was very excited at the prospect of walkies.  He soon realised his days of pain and fear were over and was a delightful dog who lived to the age of 17.           You people on this forum who show and breed sound as though you are doing so for all the right reasons.  The person I mentioned that I know of started off this way but breeding gradually deteriorated into simply making money.  It is really refreshing to read your helpful, caring comments to others on here seeking advice, and the generosity of spirit in your congrats to those who are doing well showing.  Sorry, just realised gone off track somewhat.

Like a lot of rescues, we won't rehome to a home where a dog will routinely be left all day - even if they pop home at lunchtime (which some people promise to do) or even if they, for instance, have older children at university who are in and out of the house during the day.  We do sometimes rehome to a home where a dog might be left for shorter periods/less routinely than this as long as they have made good provision. This can be various things and it depends a lot on the dog (and often if there is another dog or not). One of our rehoming Qs is: "Please describe a typical day for your dog, including where you walk and for how long."  The kind of working homes I am looking for are those who work less than full-time hours and who volunteer - without being asked - that they're up at 6.30am and take the dog for a good, off-lead walk before they go to work and/or those who go to regular training/obedience/agility in the eves/weekends, and/or perhaps where there is access to outside via a dog-flap or outside run. A lot of our dogs are young and have some collie in them. They would die a small death (or wreck the house) if they were left for long hours or only got on-lead walks round the block.

We're lucky though - we can afford to be fussy as we have a long waiting list.

Jemima

Originally our dog had someone home with him fulltime from puppyhood to 3 years of age and at that time was not left on a regular basis for any great length of time although we would leave him at home at times to help ensure he was used to being alone - which I personally believe is a necessity for any dog because who knows what the future holds and what emergencies may crop up and one has no choice but to leave one's dog alone far longer than normal.

When my OH died I had no choice other than to go back to work fulltime - I do get all school holidays off though and I work just minutes away from where I live. I go to work at 7:30, pop home for 5 minutes at 10:30 and then am back home again for my lunch break from 12:00 until 1:45 and finish work between 3:30 and 4:00. Whenever I come  home my dog is either asleep or sunning himself in front of the window and although pleased to see me he is quite happy saying hello and then going back to sleep. I really worried about leaving him for so long on a regular basis because he was used to having someone around all the time but can honestly say it doesn't seem to have made any difference to him at all. He does get a lot of exercise and walks a lot of miles every week - we usually clock up at least 30 miles a week and he does agility two nights a week and seems very happy being a couch potato inbetween :-)

I think it definitely depends on the dog - mine is fine with the arrangemets but others may well not be.

The same applies to having other canine company around. Our second dog, my daughter's dog, moved out with my daughter a couple of months ago and neither he nor my dog seem to have had any problem becoming "only" dogs again - in fact with our small terrier his behaviour has completely altered and he is so much happier being an only dog and my GR seems to be glad to be free from the constant requests to play :-)

When any of mine were puppies the time they were left was gradually built up i.e initially 10/15 mins, 30 mins, 1 hour etc etc until after a few weeks they were left for 2-3 hours. 
Atm all of mine are adults & they are left a couple of times a week for 3-4 hours.  The longest i have left them was 5.5 hours & this was an unavoidable one off.

I honestly think it does depend on any individual dog.  I do think its a shame that perhaps some of the Rescue's could be a little more flexible, except with puppies.  There could be a fantastic home for a rescue available & just because the dog may be left slightly longer than 4 hours the almost perfect home is turned away.  The poor dog's are just left in kennels (excl. foster homes of course) even longer!

I work nights so the dogs are not alone,they are usually left for a couple of hours when we go shopping ect,I have always worked around my dogs and if they are to be left longer than usual they have been excersised before hand,however a neighbour of mine is out at work all day but he takes his dogs out for a couple of hours before he goes to work and same again when he gets home,
The dogs probobly get out more than most but he is dedicated to them.

Sheila

I'm going to be shot down for this but if there is more than one dog and they have access to go outside, to me up to 8 hours is ok.


What do you mean by "access to outside" though? Fair enough if it's a safely bolted locked kennel with run, but if NOT, then there would be a huge risk of the dog getting stolen. And what if the dog barks and annoys neighbours?


I'm going to relate to my country of origin again.
In Finland most people work full time, most mother return to work after having their maternity leave etc. People still have dogs and well looked after dogs for that.

But a short hop and skip away in Sweden nobody would dream of having a dog and working fulltime unless they had employed a dog walker , or used doggy daycare -which is now very common. It isn't in the rules anymore but the Swedish KC USED to have a rule saying no member were to leave a dog alone for more than 3 hours a day. (And of course you have to be a KC member to be able to enter shows so an awful lot of dog owners are members.)

> What do you mean by "access to outside" though? Fair enough if it's a safely bolted locked kennel with run, but if NOT, then there would be a huge risk of the dog getting stolen. And what if the dog barks and annoys neighbours?

Of course the owner needs to provide safe run/space and make sure the neighbors are not having to listen to the dog barking full stop.
If a dog is of a barky breed or individual you naturally can not leave the dog alone and would have to look for other options which there are many here in UK.

> But a short hop and skip away in Sweden nobody would dream of having a dog and working full time unless they had employed a dog walker , or used doggy daycare -which is now very common.

I'm not saying dogs in Finland just get left alone all day, just that working full time is not seen as a reason not to have a dog or to be sold a dog!
Doggy daycare and even professional dog walkers are not common at all yet, only in few big cities you have that option.
Many owners do with a neighbor or such when it comes to walking the dogs during the day.
For example my mum (who works full time)has three other dogs she takes out when needed and the dogs owners do the same for her. I suppose in many places community is more tight knit still but this is changing so I expect the professional daycare walkers to become more common.
Of course many people live in flats in Finland (again not seen a reason not to have a dog) so the dog will need to be taken out during the day as there is no outside space.

I started my journey with dogs by walking few different dogs whilst their owners were at work, this is also pretty common in Finland.
A Daughter/son of a family friend etc walking the dog after they get home from school, earning few pennies..

I have a litter at the moment and have turned down several enquiries because they worked full-time. Even with the best will in the world, many good intentions will soon run out of steam when the idea of coming home at lunchtime, getting out of bed an hour earlier and again when you come home becomes reality.

On top of that, with the darker winter mornings and evenings, I fail to see how 50% of new pet owners would sustain such a routine especially when it gets cold and wet!

I worked up until recently for two whole days a week & on those days either myself or my OH would get up extra early to walk the dogs. I would be anxious to get home and would immediately don the old gear to head out of the door again with them. Dinner for the family would always have to wait on those days until the dogs had been seen to. In fact, I had one grown up child living at home who worked part time and didn't leave until after 10, and another who would return from school at 3, so in fact the dogs weren't left for that long!

Now for us, on those two days, it was a struggle, and we're DOGGY PEOPLE!!! I just look at some people and can hardly imagine them doing the same as we did on those days.

So if I have a stream of people applying for one of our puppies, I will generally handpick the ones I feel are most suitable. If after meeting with them I feel the same, only then will they be offered the chance for one of our pups.

In the village where we live, there is a lovely couple who have an equally lovely giant breed dog. They've had him from a pup and both work full-time. I live opposite the village pub, and they are very regular customers there. They sometimes will bring the dog with them, but not often, and I always think about the poor dog who's been left all day long, and most evenings too...

You see, even people who work full-time are actually entitled to a social life to some degree. The 8 hours of work time doesn't include travel to and from work, nor does it include the evening out to the pub, the visiting friends, shopping, or any other activity which takes us away from the home and can't include our dogs.

Dogs are social animals, and I've seen it so many times, where dogs lead a totally miserable existance in homes where it felt like a good idea at the time to get a puppy, and then the novelty wears off leaving the dog to spend the rest of it's life as part of the fixtures and fittings, maybe getting a good run at the weekends if it's lucky, but being left to it's own devices the rest of the time.

I tend to view potential owners by my own standards, if they don't come close, then they would never get a chance to own one of our puppies, they are just TOO precious!!

Interesting reading.
I guess it really does show how very differently dogs are viewed in different countries.
Here, in the part of Australia where I live (and a lot of the whole of Australia too I believe), not a second thought is given by many to having an 'outside' dog.
Now I don't mean just a working, hardy, kennelled dog, as has been discussed previously on CD (I think).
We're talking 'normal' pet dogs here.  Many Australians will not allow their dogs to have access to the inside of their homes.
The barking problem seems to be very common here (can't tell you how many I'm surrounded by!).

One of the questions we ask our potential adopters is will the dog be mainly living inside/outside or both. 
We are however, very careful about each individual dogs needs when vetting/interviewing a potential adopter.

ETA.  This would NOT be my personal choice of how to deal with rehoming!  I've actually made sure that the hours I work fit in with how I'd like MY dogs to live their lives.  Particularly being in such a hot climate, etc,  as well as the usual welfare needs, I'd rather not leave them for longer than 4 or perhaps 5 hours. 
My dogs are INSIDE dogs I also hasten to add!

That's ok by me for occasionally, but not every day. Ours have access to the outside and are generally left for between 4/5 hours a day. They get walked in the morning and are then happy to snooze during the day, then are ready to snuggle on laps or go dog training in the evening. But a few times in the year we have an all day thing and if I can't find a handy friend to pop round, I don't think it's a major problem to leave them for a whole day - they have access to the garden, and it's only a few times in a year.

>I'm going to be shot down for this but if there is more than one dog and they have access to go outside, to me up to 8 hours is ok.

> I worked up until recently for two whole days a week & on those days either myself or my OH would get up extra early to walk the dogs. I would be anxious to get home and would immediately don the old gear to head out of the door again with them. Dinner for the family would always have to wait on those days until the dogs had been seen to. In fact, I had one grown up child living at home who worked part time and didn't leave until after 10, and another who would return from school at 3, so in fact the dogs weren't left for that long!
>
> Now for us, on those two days, it was a struggle, and we're DOGGY PEOPLE!!! I just look at some people and can hardly imagine them doing the same as we did on those days.

I couldn't afford a dog and all the costs it entails if I didn't work full time.  The only way I would be able to afford it is if I was a BYB and churning out 100's of pups.  what you have described in your post is my life!  I get up at 6am and leave the house at 8.30 to make sure the dogs get to the park and some time spent with them before i go to work.  I have a dog walker who  comes in during the day and rarely get my own tea before 8.30pm on a work day as walking the dogs is my first priority on coming home.

TBH I don't find it a struggle, it is just life and I sacrifice a social life during the week for my dogs (TBH I am sacrificing a weekend social life for the dogs at the moment too lol).  All of my friends who own dogs and work full time also do what I do so it doesn't seem unusual.

Well said Cheekychow :)

I have the luxury of working with my dogs but know many responsible dog owners who also work full time. I also know of many irresponsible dog owners who don't work full time and is home all day where the dog is never walked and is lucky if someone in the house remembers to feed them.

There is almost the feeling that, if you leave your dogs for more than 4 hours, you are not offering a dog what it needs. I just don't subscribe to that school of thought at all.

Until my neighbour had children 6 years ago they both worked full time and had 4 dobermanns starting with one from a puppy that went to work with her until ti got too hot to stay in the van.  they then got a re-home about same age and the dogs stayed home.

Evey morning without fail rain hail sleet and snow they were walked a solid hour before she left for work.

I became friendly with her when she had glandular fever and her OH was working broad.  she paid me to take the 4 adult dobes out every day.

I would take them two at a time for long road walks (at least an hour each).

Whens eh got better and I realised she was taking the dogs to the country Park every morning in the dark I volunteered to go with her,a and we piled in 4 dobes and 4 elkhounds into her works Astra Van and spent at least an hour free running the dogs.

When she came home in the evenings she took them out again for a lead walk of at least half an hour.  I used to let them out middle of the day for a wee, but generally they would not bother especially if ti was wet.

When one of them died she decided to have a puppy but only after I agreed to socialise ti by taking it out on daytime walks with mien,a nd was willing to go in and feed it three times a day a nd help toilet train.

If they went out socially either I or one of my children would go and dog sit for the evening so that they would not spend more time alone.

Some people are that committed.  So my question is what regular care arrangements will be in place for the dogs/puppy when they are not there.  Vague we will manage or maybe's don't cut it, but well thought out plans will get consideration.

Just posting to the end....

You see, even people who work full-time are actually entitled to a social life to some degree. The 8 hours of work time doesn't include travel to and from work, nor does it include the evening out to the pub, the visiting friends, shopping, or any other activity which takes us away from the home and can't include our dogs.

Social life??? Does going to dog training not count as social life :)?
I actually do my shopping on the weekend or on days my other half is at home so I will not leave the dogs alone if they have been alone during the day.
Saying that, I do office hours and he works shifts and many evenings so we can work around times dogs are left alone not being 5 days a week... some weeks there are no days they are left, some weeks 2-3 days...

My friends know - dogs have been alone today- is a valid reason for me not to go out in the evening and it means my friends come to visit me or we pick another day to meet up.

I totally understand where people are coming from when it comes to picking right homes to their babies but I do feel if they are saying definite no to people who work full time they might be losing out on good homes. Also, does this mean having a full time job means you can only get a dog from a breeder who does not care about their babies e.g. not so good breeder? I hope not... I have never bought a puppy in UK but it sounds I might have found it difficult!

People can work around working and provide a dog a good home.
Maybe if somebody has never had a dog they will not realise the work that goes in to working and looking after a dog but if they have already had a dog or have other dog, chances are they already have plan how they are going to work it with the new addition (and plan B & C probably).

We are due to have our first litter later this year and we both work full time!
Everything is worked out around it, we might not have any holiday days left after the litter but to us, it is holiday well spent :)
Naturally we will also be keeping a puppy so have worked out  plan on how to work around that s well... as it will change our current routine.

> There is almost the feeling that, if you leave your dogs for more than 4 hours, you are not offering a dog what it needs. I just don't subscribe to that school of thought at all.

I totally agree with you.  In life we have to make choices and each of those choices has a consequence.  My choices to have dogs means I no longer have 'lost' weekends, a social life during the week or lots of holidays but it is still worth it.

I often wonder who is actually allowed to have dogs from rescues and some breeders (not directed at the OP, just curious) as the people who are not eligible is long.  You can't have a dog if you work full time, have small children, live in a flat, don't have a secure garden, are old etc etc. 

The only people who appear to be able to have dogs are those who are unemployed (but can they afford them?), lottery winners, non-workers through choice who are rich, those with rich husbands/wives etc.  It doesn't leave many people does it?

> lottery winners, non-workers through choice who are rich, those with rich husbands

That to me sounds an ideal reason not to work.. How I wish :-D

The only people who appear to be able to have dogs are ...lottery winners etc etc

You know, I was convinced there was no good reason for buying a lottery ticket, but how wrong I was :)! Thank you for putting me straight, cheekychow. Now I'll be throwing away a pound week on the off chance that it will buy my freedom to stay home with my dogs forever.

Well I'm one of those awful people who lives on my own, works full time and owns dogs!

When I'm not at work my dogs are my life, the rest of my life is devoted to them and they are happy healthy dogs.

I've also sold pups to people working full time (of course they always take a few weeks time off between each other).  But they've been committed owners who I knew would put everything into their dogs.

Like everything in life there's no set rule, what works for one doesn't for others. 

I'm not sure I'd sell myself a puppy because of my work hours!

Why? Because you work for 3 hours a day?

I am not trying to be antagonistic but don't you think that's slightly OTT? Are the only homes "good" enough for a dog those that are at home all day, every day (perhaps allowing short periods out for shopping and essentials) and have enough money to feed and pay for vet care? Gosh, we must be talking less than 5% of the population if that's the case.

>Why? Because you work for 3 hours a day?

Yes - I know from past experience that a puppy needs more owner-input than I can offer at the moment.

My shifts are nominally 3 hours long, but can extend indefinitely if there's an emergency. My longest 3-hour shift has been nearly 5 hours.

I am one of the lucky ones who works with their dogs. However, the old man often gets left at home whilst we are out working as he doesn't like the car these days and is far happier snoozing in his bed till we return.

However, I would find it hugely restrictive if I felt I couldn't leave my dogs for any more than 3 to 4 hours and I would guess that this would be true for the average person.

I would happily leave my dogs for 6 to 7 hours whilst I went somewhere they couldn't join me. Far rather that than trail them around in a hot car whilst we visited family or whatever else needed doing. Did I come home to distressed dogs? Never! I came home to dogs fast asleep in their beds. Nowadays I can't do this as the old man can't hold his bladder for that long so my trips out are more restricted. That comes down to what I said earlier...you can't put a time limit on an individual dog. It's about assessing their needs at any given time.

I am sure many people think nothing of shutting their dogs in a room overnight whilst they go to bed. Is that different in some way? I know the days I am working indoors and sorting out paperwork etc the dogs take themselves off to their respective beds and sleep anyways!

I am sure this thread has left some people thinking they must be the worst dog owners in the world!!

>I am sure many people think nothing of shutting their dogs in a room overnight whilst they go to bed. Is that different in some way?

Yes, obviously. They can hear when the dog is making a noise (I would wake to a single scratch at the kitchen door) to go out. If they're out of the house they're oblivious. My breed club recommends that they shouldn't be left without a toilet break for more than 3 hours, and that's fine by me.

>Nowadays I can't do this as the old man can't hold his bladder for that long so my trips out are more restricted.

And yet many people force dogs to do just that ...

I've come home at lunch times before now, my dogs have lifted their heads up looked at me as if I'm mad and laid their heads back down again.  This is a fit active breed and in no way would I say they seem badly done to.

Someone being home all day does not mean that they are going to do any more with their dogs than those of us who have to work.

>Someone being home all day does not mean that they are going to do any more with their dogs than those of us who have to work.

No, but they're there if needed. I have to work too. That's why I'm delaying getting another puppy although having only one dog is horrible.

Actually, the only time one of my dogs has messed in the house was through the night when I was asleep. If they made a noise to waken me, I didn't hear it!

I think it's pretty outrageous to suggest that a dog can only be left alone for a maximum of 3 hours. My dogs certainly didn't need to go to the bathroom that frequently. Yes, they may become ill when I am absent from the house but I don't think it's feasible for any owner to supervise their dogs 24/7.

And yes, like the other poster...I have come home to a dog who doesn't even get up from the comfort of their bed to say hello lol

>I think it's pretty outrageous to suggest that a dog can only be left alone for a maximum of 3 hours.

My breed has a medical need to urinate frequently; keeping urine in the bladder for long hours increases the risk of bladder stones.

>I have come home to a dog who doesn't even get up from the comfort of their bed to say hello lol

Thankfully I haven't - mine are always welcoming, usually lying in the hall instead of their beds when I get home.

Hi Perrodeagua

I don't know, but maybe you would think differently if you were leaving just one Solitary dog at home, rather than several as company for each other.

I'm rather glad she acts in this way :) Tells me she's a confident dog who wasn't anxious about my return :) I wouldn't be happy if I thought they were waiting anxiously on my return.

Ok, I'm not actually knocking any of you DOGGY PEOPLE who work and take good care of your dogs. My post is actually directed at anyone who thinks they will get some cute puppy and then carry on with their lives as if the pup didn't figure. I know too many people who are like this and it makes me so sad. You just know that their gardens are full of dog poo because they can't be bothered to pick it up, and would never go out in the wind and freezing rain to walk their dog. So what happens to the dog? It leads a totally miserable existance that's what.

It is obvious that most people on this forum are in fact DOGGY PEOPLE! I would definitely class myself as such, and my comments are not made towards you. But we all know those people whom I've mentioned don't we?

And yes, dogs can be left and they do get used to it. BUT for those people who go to work all day, dash home to shower so they can head down to the pub or other social activity and rarely take their dog out at all (I know people like this) I would question whether they should have a dog at all!!!! Dogs aren't possessions, they are part of our lives and need to be in our lives, not just something which is in the house like a piece of furniture.

We all know what it is to be a DOG PERSON, my family think I put the dogs before them quite a lot of the time, perhaps I do, but in my eyes the dogs don't have a voice (well they do... me!). I think about the impact on them before I do most things, and for me that is the way it will always be...

And personally, if my situation were different, and I had no choice but to work full time (I'm working on a self-employed idea at the moment so I can work from home) then I don't think I'd have any dogs at all. Yes it would actually break my heart but there you are.

Breeders can make their own decisions about the sort of homes they want for their puppies and I'm sure that most would look at individual circumstances before deciding about working hours.

With regard to rescue dogs I'm comfortable with a 4 hour norm.  I think it quite reasonable to ask prospective owners to really consider if they can offer the time to rehabilitate a dog, or train a puppy, or manage medical needs.  Better that people realise they cannot choose a dog on a whim and that they should expect to explain how they intend to provide for their chosen dogs needs.  I'm sure mistakes are made, and that sometimes a great home may be missed but I'm more inclined to believe that common sense prevails and that a degree of flexibility on both sides is sensible.  At least having a 'maximum time dog can be left policy' encourages discussion between owner and rescue and allows both parties to explain what they can offer and just what is required for each particular dog. 

Reading through the posts just confirms that many dogs will adapt, wether left for 4/5 hours or longer to allow people to go to work. I can't imagine (I hope) that any one on this forum would leave a dog regularly knowing that it is distressed, every situation and dog is different. I don't judge an owner by the number of hours they spend in the company of their dog or where their dog is when they come home, but by the quality time, exercise and care they put in when they are there. I envy those of you that can leave you dogs for longer periods, as I have made a rod for my own back by generaly not leaving them for more than 4 hours. The baying of a large hound is not easy to ignore. I have also learnt from experience that in recent emergencies when I have no option (such as OH heading for the hospital again in an ambulance) that I will be gone for many hours and they are better off in the back of the car, settled, warm, and where I can check on them than leaving them.

4 hours is the absolute maximum I would leave my dogs.  They are adults and just sleep (as far as I know) but they are also social creatures and I just don't think its fair.
If I really have to be longer, even by 30 mins I will arrange for someone to come in and give them some company for an hour at least.
I try to work it round my daughter being home to go anywhere, but this coming weekend I am off to a show with my greyhound so leaving my other dog home, my daughter is on holiday and it 40 mins travelling time each way, so i am trying to time it to arrive for the classes and then come home.  If its running late i will come home without finishing my classes.
I wouldn't not home a dog to someone working full time as long as they have in place someone to come into the dogs once or twice during the day.

I agree a little with everyones views, I think that maybe it is not the hours that people work but the degree of priority the dogs are given when people are at home. If the dogs are walked am early in ALL weather and are walked as soon as they get home from work with 'dinner can wait attitude, my dogs come first' and where poss someone ( a neighbour to let the dogs out at midday) I think the dogs learn the routine and settle into it. However not all people do put their dogs first, many seem to think the dog is like a toy and can be put in a cupboard and only brought out when they want, ignoring the dogs needs completely at other times, in fact many consider it a nuisance that the dog may need a walk or company.
When my husband died 2 years ago I had no choice but to go to work full time but was lucky enough to find a job where I can take all my dogs with me. They are walked before work, then at work they have free access to a very large garden/ field and get a walk during lunch hour, then again when I get home. I know I am one of the lucky ones in this respect, but I am one that gives my dogs top priority and arrange my life around my dogs and not the other way round.
ps I also grocery shop online with Tesco so I do not need to go shopping.

mine are not often left for more than 2 hours but we do have a dog flap and secure garden so they can go out anyway and i have 2 dogs for company for each other

> but they are also social creatures and I just don't think its fair.
>

Yes they are social creatures, but if they have each other for company their social needs are met, ti is the physical needs that are the real issue, as in how long can we expect a dog to hold it's bladder in the waking hours (we all know they can happily hold on during the night).

I certainly would feel no guilt about leaving my dogs plural for a lengthy period, as long as their other needs were met.  In fact having helped foster with a rescue situation where 23 dogs had lived as a pack, the dogs were perfectly happy living this way. 

Their canine communication skills and observance of pack rules was very evident.  Dogs that live in our homes being the expert observers they are learn to adapt their communication, and modify their behaviours accordingly.

Of course they need human interaction and training to make the fit into our lives, that's primarily for our benefit.

> My post is actually directed at anyone who thinks they will get some cute puppy and then carry on with their lives as if the pup didn't figure.

I agree with you. Unfortunately though however well prospective owners are checked, some will lie to get what they want. Our dogs needs and requirements are thought about and worked out on a daily basis, whatever we are doing. But for many a pup/dog is not a member of the family whos needs and welfare are concidered, they are left to exsist. People can be checked in regards to working hours, how long they would leave the dog, have a large fenced garden, have owned dogs before and show a knowledge and understanding of their needs but it doesn't follow that once they have aquired one that they will give it any more thought than the next new 'lifestyle' requirement.