My father-in-law's girlfriend keeps referring to herself as 'Aunty' to my 3 year old.  She's not and never will be.  This is really getting to me and I need to get it sorted.  Hubby won't say anything; although for the past three years he's been saying he'll sort it, however, he's now said he's not and if I want to sort it, I've to do it but need to choose what I say carefully.

So, anyone got any advice how I tell the manipalative cow 'nicely' that she's not an 'aunty' and therefore please not to call herself that in relation to my child.  This woman really causes me nothing but grief and if I and my child could have nothing to do with her that would be the best solution, but that isn't going to happen.

I can't just turn the other cheek and let it wash over me, I've tried and I now can't bear to even be in the same room as her.

Please save my sanity and, possibly, my marriage!  :)

Does your child have any other Aunties at all? You could mention that it is likely to confuse your child as they are starting to understand how a family works.
If she does marry your fil, then technically she'd be a step grandmother..
I'm not sure how to broach it as such but go along those lines and that in order not to confuse your child it would be easier to address her as "name" or "nanny"..

How well do you get on with your fil? Could you have a word with him? Is their relationship long lasting?

Not of any help as you don't like the woman which is probably why it grates you even more, which I can understand but I had 2 female family friends as I was growing up who I always addressed as Auntie so and so rather than just their name. Never confused me, but still maybe use that as an excuse...

Hope someone else can think of something better for you

No I agree with what you said- either by name or nan or something like that cause she would never be an aunty she plays the other role since she's in a relationship with you FIL

My kids do not call my mom's boyfriend grandpa cause he was never our dad- they refer to him by name and I set my mom straight on that told her not to refer to him as grandpa cause he is not- when they got a lil older I let them have the choice and they chose to call him by his 1st name :-)

In the old days 'Auntie' was a term used to any close adult female who wasn't directly related to you - your godmother, your childminder, you father's second cousin's sister ...

Well to be honest at least in the culture I grew up in every adult female relative that wasn't parent or granparent, ande close family freinds were Aunty as it wasn't acceptable for children to use first names to an Adult. 

Calling a family member (yoru Fatehr in Law has included her) Mrs Smith or whatever woudl be rather.

Waht would you want your 3 year old to call this person?

My kids have always called my Dad's wife Aunty, never Grandma, (she is younger than I am), even though they don't see their Grandmother (my mother).

I do not approve of young children calling adults by their Christian names, and using a full title for a child in this context would be cold, not to mention long winded for the child

I'm with Jeangenie and Brainless on this one.

In my young days, it was considered extremely rude to call an adult by their first name.  Any close female neighbours were called Auntie.  It was a term of respect.  And you don't want your child to sound disrespectful. 

I'm guessing that this lady has the same outlook, and whether you think that this lady is a cow or not, is just not part of the equation.

ditto the above.. I had numerous Aunties as a child.. best freinds of my parents were all known as Aunties.. My Fathers' sisters were known by the more austere title of 'Aunt'

I think anyone who bought Birthday or Christmas presents, were honoured with the title :-)

Yes agree with the term Aunty was widely used a few years ago and to some extend still today. However I do think the term is less widely used and accepted in many homes now so in some respects if you feel you really can't deal with the term with your FIL's girlfriend then I don't see why asking politely to not use the word wouldn't be too much to ask.I would ask to speak to her alone making sure you are in a relaxed comfortable place so it minimises the nerves and you can stay calm and composed without being too emotional.

Think this is a case of the adults problems and feelings for this person is spilling over to the child.

It is difficult but can you really not ignore this lady being called Aunty, like the others any family friend was called Aunty if female and Uncle if male and still are in my family, you don't have to like them but that is the polite title and it could be why she calls herself that, would you be happier if she called herself Gran or by her Christian name.

If the problem is that you do not want your child to mix with her at all then perhaps you could arrange to go out when your partners father visits his son. Think you need to analyse why you are feeling as you are, do you just dislike her and are trying to influence your child to think the same. How does your partner view this partner of his Father, if he does not mind then why should you.

When we grew up, our neighbours were also referred to as Aunty - to the extent that some were called "aunty red door" & aunty 66".   Elderly ladies were referred to as 'Ma (surname) - not rudely - but as a form of respect.

Yes, people were either Mr or Mrs Surname, or if you knew them well enough to be less formal, they were Auntie or Uncle First Name. A child would never, ever call an adult by their first name!

Thanks everyone for your replies.  Now, where to start?  :)

I would rather my daughter called her by her first name and this is how my husband and I both refer to her in front of her when speaking to our child (in fact, when we send thank you cards they're always addressed to Grandpa and this woman's first name).  My husband thought that by us just refering to her as her first name she would get the hint, but three years down the line she's still not got it.  There is a long and complicated background that winds me up every time I think about it, but for the first time last night, my mum actually admitted that she could understand why I feel the way I do and could see in this woman what I see in her (basically a not very nice, manipulative, devious woman who knows how to play people and who, in actual in fact, isn't very nice to my FIL and is out for all she can get) and, before you think my mum would automatically take my side, this isn't the case.

My husband is one of those 'anything for a quiet life' people (in my opinion, he'd be far better having his quiet life at home!) and is worried about what his father will think.  My view is that it's really nothing to do with his father, she's our child and we're not stopping his father seeing her.  This woman and her family sponge off him and take everything they can get (in fact her sister has now moved in too).  If it were my father, I'd be telling him exactly what I thought and how he was being used, but that's just me I guess.  I've always had a good relationship with my FIL, I've been with my husband for nearly 20 years and went through his mum dying and his dad's other girlfriends.  His dad used to come out with us on a Saturday night and I used to stay there rather a lot when we were just going out.

If something were to happen to my FIL (and by law of averages, as she's about 18 years his junior, she should outlive him) once we got her out the house (she still has her own house that she rents out) neither myself or my daughter would ever see her again.

I know in days gone by it was manners to call everyone aunt or uncle (I still call my mum's best friend aunty), but I do think that's outdated now and children can call adults by their first name without it being rude.

Please keep the advice coming.

Earl I have sympathy for how you feel but however much you dislike this woman if you and your child are going to have to see her then you are going to have to swallow the fact that she does have a right to say how she should be addressed.

It must be galling to sit back and watch your FIL being taken for a ride but there is nothing you can do about it except accept and relax, it is totally out of your hands. Could you not ask your FIL to visit on his own, it would be OK to say that you are barely able to be polite to the girlfriend and feel it would be better if she did not visit your home. Outside your home you have to decide if you will be at any function where she is or not but in your own home you have the right  to invite only those you wish to see, the only problem with this is your husband has the same rights.

Thanks Nova.  I know in the past people have presumed the right to call themselves aunty, but I really feel that this is not her right and therefore shouldn't be assumed.  She does it to wind me up and it works.  I can't help that.  I'm volatile and, it has to be said, sometimes irrational, but I feel very strongly about this.  This woman is vindictive and knows exactly what she's doing.  My father in law comes to ours most Friday nights on his own and sees my daughter and then we have dinner and she usually stays away.

It's not one sided.  She doesn't like me either so I think it's best she's just kept away from me and my child.  She's not my husband's mother (she was a lovely lady) and if she were then that would be a very different situation.  Of course my husband has a right to say who comes into our home and he has no wish for her to visit, he just wants to keep the peace for his father.  My husband doesn't like this woman particularly much either, but, as I said, she knows how to play him and knows that he won't loose it with her and say what he feels, whereas she knows that I would tell her exactly what I think.  She's very clever and may play the fool, but, believe me, she's not.

On the question of calling herself Aunty I do feel she has the right but understand that your feeling about her may be clouding the issue.

Only answer is to say you will not have her in your home, if you husband objects tell him he can meet her at his Fathers or if he insists on her coming to your home you will go out. Forget the Aunt thing you have become fixated and it really has nothing to do with the situation, if you ignore it you will have removed from her the ability to upset you - one up to you.

fully agree with brainless....that was also what i grew up with....all non related adult female friends of my parents etc were "aunty"

> but I do think that's outdated now

I also think its outdated and wouldn't expect or want to be called Auntie by any friends children. Auntie to me in these times would be suited only to actual Aunties in families.

I do think you need to sit her down and speak to her about this and give her some options as to what she prefers of names which you'd be happy with your daughter using. Go down the confusion route I think and how people now don't address or use the word Auntie unless they are actually one.

You can't help how you feel about this woman, once we feel a particular way its hard for anyone to convince you otherwise. I do though think you need to be careful about your feelings and emotions spilling over to how you feel in front of your daughter, which i'm sure you're well aware of :-)

Families, full of stress at times! I sympathise with you and please take everything that everyone says as constructive from an outsiders point of view :)

You must seperate your negative feelings for this woman from the " how to address her" issue. Ask yourself how would you feel if she was a lovely warm lady who you got on with like a house on fire, would you still have an issue with what name she was called?

I was also brought up when you called everyone Auntie, I remember asking my mum why I did this as they were not related to me.
I think times have changed.

You could always say that your daughter is learning about family relationships and rather than confuse her she will now call you ( whatever she's called) or your daughter could come up with a nickname for her ( with NO input from you!! - just in case :) )

I am also married to a " anything for a quiet life man" which is most of the time fantastic but sometimes you want to throttle them :(
Good luck

Thanks everyone.

So you think 'Cruella' (which is what OH and I call her) isn't acceptable for my daughter to use?  :)

Of course my feelings towards her are clouding the issue.  I know that and yes, if she were a lovely woman who I got on with then I wouldn't have an issue with it.  But, I want her to know her place and realise that she won't walk all over me.  I'm the one that has the family surname and the rights that go along with it and I think this is her problem.  My husband has no issue with her not seeing our daughter, he just finds it hard because he knows if he goes to his father's and she's there I'll go off on one.  Although we've agreed that I'll try not to and he won't take our daughter round knowing she's there (and that mean's if the car's in the driveway you don't go in).

She's a very plausible person and until she lets the facade slip you don't know how devious and manipulative she is.  My mum's known her for many years now and has only just seen what lies beneath.

I know the sensible, grown up, mature way to deal with this would be to smile, put on a face and let it wash over me.  I've tried this for years and I just can't do it anymore.  I'm not a doormat and I'm not too-faced.  I don't suffer fools gladly and probably make my own life more difficult because I'm not an 'anything for a quiet life' person.

If "Auntie" is really out of the question could you/your child think of a (polite) nickname and inform the lady that's what it's going to be?

Perhaps you could ask your 3 year old daughter what she would like to call the lady involved?

Is your daughter comfortable calling the lady Auntie?  I would wager she is, because she possibly won't understand anything different.

Please don't misunderstand me, I have some fairly hateful relatives in-law, so I can empathise. 
But I do feel that a 3 year old child should not be at the butt of family feuds.

How about considering wolfiestruppi's suggestion?

> I'm not a doormat and I'm not too-faced. I don't suffer fools gladly and probably make my own life more difficult because I'm not an 'anything for a quiet life' person.

I think you and i would get on very well together !!!!

I think that your daughter is getting towards the age where she would understand what an Aunty is , if it was explained .
I would make sure that your daughter calls this woman by her first name , and  if this woman tries to get her to call her Aunty then i think it could be gently pointed out that she is not your daughter's Aunty and therefore your daughter will be calling her by her first name just like everyone else.

Good luck and let us know what happens !

Thanks everyone, I know I'm probably being difficult, but I've backed down before and this is something that's too important to me.

I think the next time she says it, I'll just have to say, in my politest, non-confrontational voice, 'you're not her aunty, we'd prefer you didn't call yourself that'.  I can't think of any other way to put it.  And saying 'we' infers that my OH is included in that.

She does deliberately say it to get at me, this much I know.  I'll let you know how it goes.

The difficult thing is that she knows my best friends are referred to as auntie and uncle, but that's our choice.  I don't feel anyone has the right to assume this position.

>The difficult thing is that she knows my best friends are referred to as auntie and uncle, but that's our choice.

You're going to need to be consistent. If your best friends aren't her 'natural' auntie and uncle, and yet you allow her to call them that, you're going to look really petty if you make a fuss about this woman, and she'll be able to play the hard-done innocent. If she's as nasty as you say she is, you'll have played right into her hands ...

How about if they're not referred to as auntie and uncle in front of her then?  We go on holiday with them.  They're in our wills as her legal guardians if my parents weren't around.  I think that gives them the right to be referred to as auntie and uncle, but I'm willing to have that bit dropped in front of her.

I know other people will think I'm being petty and I know she'll do the hard-done innocent routine - this is something she's got down to a fine art.  I just don't want her in our lives.  Surely I have this right as a mother?

Next time round I'm marrying a millionaire orphan.  :)

> I know other people will think I'm being petty and I know she'll do the hard-done innocent routine - this is something she's got down to a fine art.  I just don't want her in our lives.  Surely I have this right as a mother?
> <<

Like it or not, she is in your F-i-L's life.    It depends whether he - and you - want him (and him alone) in your daughter's life on your terms.  

Just to say that I totally understand how you feel, Earl.
My brother's new wife insists on referring to his grandchildren as her grandchildren which totally infuriates the rest of the family. She is not their grandmother and never will be. She came on the scene when my brother's daughters were well into their 20s and it took them a long time to even accept her as my brother's new wife (he'd been married to their mum for 30 years).  Personally I think the least these people should do is discuss the issue with the parents first rather than just assume a title they are not entitled to. 

My daughters call my husband's stepmother 'Granny' but I have to admit I picked it because my own Gran would go nuts if anyone called her Granny as she hated it (it was for old women) . Is that bad of me? :-D :-D Do I care? :-D :-D

:-D at Dakkobear !

Aunty a few years gone by wasn't just a relative thing, close family friends were referred to as auntie and uncles etc.  I still call one of my mum's friend auntie so in a way it's a generation thing.

> If something were to happen to my FIL (and by law of averages, as she's about 18 years his junior, she should outlive him) once we got her out the house (she still has her own house that she rents out) neither myself or my daughter would ever see her again.

I believe that there is far more to your dislike of her here, and it will end up spilling over to your child.  Which is a great shame, I have seen a childs hate which has been stimulated by a parents feelings.

Once you get her out of the house?  Are you assuming that, when your FIL dies, that the house will become yours?  He has very right to leave a will that ( as his common law wife ) she would be the beneficiary.

I am of an age where our children  called our friends Aunty or Uncle - as my children grew up into adults they dropped the Aunty and Uncle and now just use first names but it was considered rude for children to call an adult by just their first name in those days :-)

As much as you dislike your FIL's girlfriend and her ways she is the person he has chosen to share his life with and I think it is one of those things that you have to learn to live with - maybe she knows that you resent her presence within the family which would inevitable affect the way she behaves around you. One way that might make it easier for you to accept that she is a big part of your FIL's life is to imagine it the other way round - how would you feel and react if your husband's family had so openly disliked you - would you have expected his family to just get  on with it as you were his choice and would it have been acceptable for them to show hostility towards you because they didn't think you were the right person for him? Not an easy situation to be in for any of you :-(

> Not an easy situation to be in for any of you :-(
>

and not something the child should be dragged into.  I think it is up to the woman how she wishes to be addressed, and I still think it unacceptable for a child that Young to use first names for adults.

Are other adults refereed to bey their Christian names or are they Mrs Smith and Mr Jones?

The only reason I allowed my children's friends and friends children address me by my given name is because I have a difficult surname for most children.

I do sympathise with you Earl..I have a family member i'll have nothing to do with and will avoid anything going on if they are going to be there, its hard especially if you are the only one with these strong feelings. You can't help- the way that you feel.

Families, if only you could choose them :-)

Good luck in how you decide to deal with this..

>I think it is up to the woman how she wishes to be addressed, and I still think it unacceptable for a child that Young to use first names for adults.

Ditto.

>I think it is up to the woman how she wishes to be addressed, and I still think it unacceptable for a child that Young to use first names for adults.
Ditto.

So do I but it seems the norm these days that even grandparents are called by their first name.  I think this is terrible and just shows the decline in respect these days.

You do have a hard one, I would maybe think about what Harley said or try and work out why you don't like her/want her in your life.  you said your mum liked her until recently.  Do you feel she's replaced your MIL?  She might not have in the FIL eyes.

She's been with him for a good amount of time, it must have been murder for you all this time worrying about him.

I'd probalbly let the Auntie thing go over your head, its upsetting you and your daughter can pick up on it which might result in her having a bad relationship with her grampa.  I wouldn't have thought you'd want this to happen.  If you show it doesn't upset you, then she achieves nothing.  Deep breath and count to ten.

I grew up calling parents close friends anut and uncle and loved it when I too was given the honour by my friends, maybe that's some of the difference, it was given my i didn't initicate it.  When little as others said you also called other mrs/mr surname.  with it dying out maybe its contributed to the lack of respect offered by so many children now.  I would never have dreamed of speaking/abusing and adult.  They didn't have to be elderly either.

The other option you have is move away to make it harder for her to visit.

Could you chat to the FIL to see how he feels about her and how you feel about her.  would your little girl miss out on anything not seeing their relationship.  Give yourself the easy life for a while, she might go if no fun winding you up, otherwise she's there for the longhawl and maybe you have to live with it.  Some of my inlaws are a peice of work but i suck it up and get on with it, its me that would be out in the cold.  I don't join in with their rantings about the sisiter.

My goodness, where to start lol.

Firstly, I know what's written in my FIL's will, so it's not an assumption that the house will go to his sons, it's fact.  She has been seen to in his will and has a timescale to move out of the house.

Harley, it's not that I resent her presence.  We used to get on well, but that seemed to change after I got married, she moved into my FIL's house and her true colours began to show.  I truelly haven't always been hostile to her, but I'm not putting up with her snide comments and the way she treats me anymore.  She's manipulative, vindictive, out for what she can get and knows how to play the game.  When my FIL was in hospital having just had a heart attack, she went to a dinner function with her sister.  Now, I know if the shoe was on the other foot, I certainly wouldn't feel like going out and socialising with friends while my OH was in hospital, but maybe that's the difference between a wife and a girlfriend.  She's not his wife and I don't see why she should be given any courtesy, as she certainly doesn't show any to me.

Lots of other adults are referred to by their first name.  Only my aunt, cousin and best friend are referred to as aunt and their husbands as uncle.

Brainless, I really don't see why she has the right to choose how she is addressed.  This is not her family.

Sunshine, I dislike her because of the way she is towards me.  She stirs up trouble at any given opportunity and mixes things for her own gain - for example, she caused a whole lot of trouble one Christmas by telling me that my husband's brother and then wife weren't coming because I was there.  Now, how was telling me this on Christmas Eve going to benefit anyone, because obviously I went off like a blue tape saying that I therefore wouldn't go on Christmas day and the whole thing got out of hand.  If, indeed, this is what had been said she'd have been better keeping it to herself.  However, on Christmas Day my BIL and his wife stopped in for drinks and I asked them about it.  They said this wasn't true and wasn't what had been said.  Whether it had or not, she was causing trouble by telling me.  Last time I was there she asked my husband what he wanted to drink and my FIL, got them and then turned to me and said, 'do you want something?'.  These are just a couple examples.

>When my FIL was in hospital having just had a heart attack, she went to a dinner function with her sister.  Now, I know if the shoe was on the other foot, I certainly wouldn't feel like going out and socialising with friends while my OH was in hospital,

Just playing devil's advocate here, but perhaps you FiL had told her she ought to, and not hang around worrying about him?

>Brainless, I really don't see why she has the right to choose how she is addressed.

Now I would say that it's everyone's prerogative to choose how other people address them. I personally don't think anyone has the right to tell other people what they'll be called. For instance I can't bear grandmothers being called Nanny (they're neither qualified paid staff nor female goats!) but that's what my MiL wanted her grandchildren to call her - so that's what she's called.

Jeangenie, why should she assume the title of auntie when she's not actually an auntie, nor is she a family member?  There's a difference between your mum or MIL asking to be addressed as something by your children than someone else.  It would never occur to me to refer to myself as 'auntie' to anyone's children.

Sadly for you though she IS part of the family now.  I know that knowing my mum etc. she would want me to go to an event as she would think it would take my mind off things and ease the stress.  Not saying that this is what happened but as everything else in life there's always two sides to th story

>why should she assume the title of auntie when she's not actually an auntie, nor is she a family member?

For the same reason that the vet is either "Uncle Geoff" or "Auntie Kate" or whatever their name happens to be. It's less formal than Mr or Mrs and not as intimate and personal as just the first name, which suggests a friendly, personal relationship (which doesn't seem to be what's wanted here!), and this woman is a family member, like it or not.

Bit like addressing an elderly lady as Madam, she may well not be but it is a courtesy - if someone wishes to be called Fred that is what we call them, no big deal, just courtesy, so if someone wishes to be called Aunty by a young child then that is how it should be and really think you need to stop stressing about it. Personally I forbade my nieces and nephews from calling me Aunty as I think it a very ugly word but that was my choice and I think everyone is entitled to be addressed as they wish.

It would seem that the name thing is just what has surfaced from a very uncomfortable relationship, winning over this will only be a short lived victory and then it will be something else, you will have to deal with the real problem or it will rumble on and on.

Nova, you're possibly right.  It's just something that grates because of who's doing it.  I don't know how to get to the bottom of the problem.  The only way I can think of is that she's kept away from me and my daughter as much as possible.  Sitting down and talking to her just isn't an option, as she's the type of person who would leave a room in tears because things weren't going her way (she's done it before when they were away with my mum and dad and another couple and that was only over a game of scrabble!).

Agree, suggest to both your OH and FIL that being in her company is causing you stress, say I don't think it is anyone's fault I just can't be in her company so in future would prefer she does not come to my home unless I am elsewhere.

It may even be necessary for you to see someone totally outside your family that you can talk to, ask your doctor they will know of councillor that could help - yes, I do think this situation is causing you real problems that will effect your health unless dealt with.

Earl. You have my sympathy. I was bought up, that to call someone Aunt, Uncle or Granny was for immideate family only, friends and extended family were called by their name Mr and Mrs ...... . Even back in my twenties when it was suggested that I could call them by their forenames - I found this difficult - even disrespectful.

I too, would find your situation intolerable. Difficult when your daughter has called her Aunty for so long, but if you feal that strongly there is realy only two options, address or ignore it. Easy to say but if you don't it will only get worse and you daughter who through no fault of hers is already in the middle of it will pick up on it anyway. No child of that age should be used within a family.  Good luck, do what is best for you and your child, choose your moment and stay calm.

Well the only correct way you could insist on your daughter referring to her would be Miss/Mrs Surname. 

It certainly would not be acceptable for your child to refer to her by her given name.

Thanks everyone.

Lacy, my daughter hasn't yet called her aunty, nor do we call her aunty, it's just this woman refers to herself as aunty when speaking to my child.  My husband thought she would get the hint when we never address her as aunty, but clearly this hasn't happened.  Although, I'm more of the opinion that she knows exactly what she's doing and keeps on at it because it winds me up.  That's the kind of person she is.

Earl,

Contrary to what most are saying I don't think there is a right or wrong way of addressing someone in this instance. I can't see how addressing someone with their first name is disrespectful in any way shape or form in this situation.
Times change and what is acceptable now may not of been in the past.

As I said before I wouldn't want anyone to address me with Miss or Aunty by anyone's child, its far too formal and I personally think its creates a barrier. One of my Aunts has never wanted to be addressed as such and we have always called her and her husband by their first names, and I like that.

Currently all the people I know with children have them address me by my first name, I wouldn't have it any other way.

YOU need to do what is right for your family and your child.
Good Luck :-)