"Richard are you referring to who I think you are referring too? ;-)"

no comment lol

But apparently there were and excessive amount of complaints about judges at this years show.

I just personally feel that if a judge who you have seen fit to enter your dogs under cannot give you the common courtesy to be polite and manerable and they feel that they have reached such a position in their judging career that they deem themselves to be above normal exhibitors then maybe it is time that they gave up and made way in these breed clubs for new up and coming judges who want to judge the breed and are not in the practice of kissing the backsides of the "faces" in the ring.
Or maybe we the exhibitors should speak with our entries.

> cannot give you the common courtesy to be polite and manerable

I must admit I didn't feel the judge i was under was not polite to me, however i did hear her say to one exhibitor "that handling was terrible" but still gave them the class.

> Or maybe we the exhibitors should speak with our entries.

i think they already are, however some people will go everywhere regardless of the judge, one well know person posted on facebook after LKA "mr name name, never again" but I bet you they go under him in 2011 though!

Hmmmm .... pot kettle black.  We had a CERTAIN all rounder judge earlier this year who told and wrote in his critique a "fault" about a dog when in fact it is a desired breed characteristic.  And not the first time they have done this.  Thought after being pulled up a few years ago for this on the same breed they would have bothered to read the breed standard prior to the recent appointment.  Yes flashy showy dog won that was lame.

Yes Facebook, the new pre show advertising medium.  Invite a friend - next Ch show judge.  Plaster your dog's photos and wins all over the person's page who is due to judge your breed at the next Ch show!!!  Simples, you get the ticket and breed with a lame dog.

> Yes flashy showy dog won that was lame

Lameness has no excuse in a ring. If your dog is or goes lame in the ring you withdraw and i'm flaberghasted that judges, whoever they are are still putting lame dogs up, regardless of how true they are to breed type.

Flabbergasted?? I am disgusted.  I withdrew my own dog at a Ch show after he went lame in the ring, probably through treading on a sharp object as he was only lame for a short while (20 minutes) then went sound.  I had to argue with the judge and steward to let me withdraw him and take him out even though he was standing on 3 legs - literally holding the RF 3 inches off the ground and was non weight bearing on it.  They "thought" he looked OK, well he probably was "ok" in the respect he was no more lame than the DCC winner!

> I withdrew my own dog at a Ch show after he went lame in the ring

I too have done this, he was fine before going in but he went down a dip in the ground. I asked to withdraw and they had no issue with it.

> I had to argue with the judge and steward to let me withdraw him

What the heck is wrong with people?

Agree entirely - I would prefer a heavily marked to a lightly marked, but the best ones are the evenly marked ones, and there are too many blanket marked getting put up. I know the markings should be the least important thing, but at a champ show you will generally get a lot of nicely marked Cavaliers who are probably pretty well constructed too, and they don't always seem to get a look in!

>An example.... the Cavalier standards clearly states "Blenheims  Rich chestnut markings well broken up, on pearly white ground" yet many breeders state clearly they prefer a blanketed dog - the darker the better. Some go as far as to say that a dog cant be too heavily marked for them.

How often do you hear people say, " that dog is ....affix.....breeding"  whilst that at times may be a compliment should that really happen?

Well if they breed to type yes!  I didn't realise that I bred a certain "head" LOL.  Loads of people have come up to me and said they can tell the "*******" head and that they really like it.  I know they are all quite similiar but didn't think they were that different to others of my breed.

Well if they breed to type yes!   no no no no no :-D  if you breed to type it should look "typy" not " affixy" LOL if you get my drift.

It is possible to be both providing the dogs are bred to type - kennel A may be trying to improve the front and kennel B working on the head and so on, there is a limit to what one breeder can achieve during a breeding lifetime so if they concentrate on getting one thing as near as possible to the standard their dogs will stand out as being from their kennel.

I am not convinced something should be " so" obvious.. and I have a breed that we scream and insist on type.

and I have a breed that we scream and insist on type.

Not sure what you mean by the above, may be a typo. Think it depends on the numbers, in a numerically large breed with many breeders and you may not notice, with a breed of small numbers and with few breeders you can make an informed guess at the lines although every single one will have type and quality - it is also a case as well that in a breed of small numbers the knowledge of the entire breed is possible where as in a breed of many breeders you would be unlikely to have even seen an example of every breeder let alone be familiar enough to take an informed stab at the breeding.

I think I maybe didnt explain that well :-)

I was meaning that even if for example head inprovements were planned I would be suprised that it should be just one kennel.

I have no doubt all breeds you can see kennel stamps , that goes without saying , it is natural when someone likes a particular thing but I am trying to say I am not convinced it is really technically correct. Hope that makes some sense :-)

Think the problem is even though everyone breeds and judges to the standard it is still a matter of interpretation and probably a good thing to. Dogs are living creatures and can never be produced like jellies from a mould they will always carry the mark of their ancestors. 

My friend in the same breed awards CC'S but i will not show under her, I may get upset if she didn;t put my dog up and spoil a good friendship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You have the answer "bestpayne" if you are happy with what ever you friend does then you may enter under them if not then you don't. Personally I am happy to accept anyone's opinion without offence but if you are not or your friend is uncomfortable then you sit and watch and offer them support.