Hi,

Megan and Bailey have tied again today, then they both came and sat on my knee in the living room and fell asleep next to each other.  They looked so happy together and so relaxed, it was amazing to watch them both just drop off.

A quick question about selling the pups:  Would it be advisable to have pictures, video and copy of 5 gen pedigree for Bailey to show prospective owners.  Will the fact that i don't own the father of the pups put people off?

Leanne

Do you not already have people waiting for pups, if you have a good bitch and dog with all the necessary tests you should have no problem selling quality pups. Let the breed club know you have a litter in the pipe line and then once they are about a week old how many you have unsold. You can advertise them in the appropriate place on here and with the KC.

Generally unless your a well known breeder known for having both bitches and good stud dogs the breeder owning the sire as well as the bitch would put most people off the litter as being bred for convenience rather than the dog being the best match for the bitch.

Also of course keep the stud dog owner informed as owners of good studs who breed themselves will get puppy enquiries.

It's usually the mark of a good breeder to NOT own the father. (Usually but not always -there are of course exceptions.) Bad breeders use the dog closest to home or the one they own as it's convenient, good breeders go for the best there is no matter how far they have to travel.  So buyers should expect the pups' dad might live at the other end of the country or even abroad.

Yeah i do have people interested, but I will also advertise them just in case.  I will be keeping at least one of the puppies and i always have room for more so if the worst came to the worst, i'd happily keep them all. I will wait till i have confirmation from the vet before advertising them though.  I searched for ages to find the right stud dog, he's an hour away from where we live so that is why he's staying with us.

I think when i get my puppy packs ready i'll include as much info about Bailey as I can.  He has a few champions in his pedigree, as does Megan, so i think i'll print out both pedigrees.

What things do you always include in your puppy packs.

Leanne

Most breeders like to design their own pedigrees for their litters so you will have these printed out for the new owners, or purchase them from the Kennel club so will have the fathers side on there.

I like to include the details of the permanent health tests on them (so Hips and prcd-PRA DNA status etc), and of course the registration certificates will have the details of any other official KC BVA health schemes.  Any other kind of additional health tests (e.g. Patella's, Kidneys Thyroid etc) you will need copies.

It's usually the mark of a good breeder to NOT own the father. (Usually but not always -there are of course exceptions.)

So glad you added the bit in brackets :-)  And there are exceptions, I'm one, my breeder mentor is another, and I know quite a few more ....

Although you do not have the sire to show people (not important) you should have a copy of all his health tests and a few photos would be nice so when people enquire you can send photos and health certificate copies to your prospective owners.

I would never buy a dog with a hand written pedigree, sorry.  it could be false.  All mine came with KC pedigree's which I am satisfied with.  With all the conmen/women (to be fair lol) i think its safer to have it from a reputable sourse.  Not that you would be doing anything underhand but personally it wouldn't do for me.

Wishing you all the best for the litter and well done with the matings, sounds promising. 

The puppy pack i had included a diet/advice sheet, a toy and blanket and enough food for a few weeks.  I also had some photos of them developing, with i find priceless (one from when they were born) and a lot of time spent going through the care and grooming.  Oh and of course the registraition certificate and pedigree.

Blimey, I've never bought a dog that came with a KC certified pedigree! Nor sold one with it. At £7 a pup for a litter of ten on top of registrations, it's just too much. The registration certificate is what counts and if the buyer wants a certified pedigree, they can order it themselves.

Blimey, I've never bought a dog that came with a KC certified pedigree! Nor sold one with it.

I am with Marianne on this one. It wasn't so much the cost...... l just used to take a great deal of pleasure in writing them out LOL!

I love printing the pedigrees out, using a programme, having a photo as a water mark etc. Way nicer than the boring KC pedigree. :)

>Blimey, I've never bought a dog that came with a KC certified pedigree! Nor sold one with it.

Nor me! You can put so much more information on an individually-produced one.

Luckily I'm fairly handy on the computer and have designed and printed out my own pedigrees. It includes 6 generations, all health clearances, photographs of the dam and sire, their KC Reg name and number, and my own personal details just in case they should want to contact me later on.

Like others have said, my owners can apply for the certificate if they want to, I'm more interested in spending money by way of quality food to take home/microchips/vet checks/vetbed etc, an extra fee to the KC needs to be met by the new owner IMO. It really does all add up!!!

Incidentally, I found out the other day after visiting the KC website that one of the owners of my litter last year haven't officially changed their pup over into their name... now I knew that it happens all the time, but I was a bit taken aback by that!!

Can you use the computer? If you have a basic word processing package with a table function, it's fairly easy to print out your own pedigrees. Hey I've just had a great idea... am looking into producing personalised leather dog collars/leads etc, maybe I could set myself up as a pedigree producer...lol!

Sorry, I digress, I think my post puppy brain has gone slightly to mush...lol!

Just the cutest thing... am sitting in the puppy room and a little face just appeared at the doorway of the whelping box, they're 10 days today & eyes just about to open... yup my brain is officially mush!!!!!

My daughter in law is a whizz on computers too,we designed and printed ours as well. Group pic of all my dogs + portraits of mom+ dad,lots of info,date of birth, kc reg name +number, my details, all done on embossed paper and laminated

Its all well saying you print your own off but who says they are genuine.  only you and you could put whatever you liked.  Do your own whistles and bells if you want, it could be nice but include the official one as well.

Both my breeder and her breeder do this as well most in my breed circle and ringcraft.  I thought it common practice but if you want to save a few quid from puppy sales i guess the hand printed one could be quite sweet.

Its all well saying you print your own off but who says they are genuine.

The reg cert does....

Ditto, and you can include so much more on your own pedigrees.

I do think the KC registration should come with a 3 generation pedigree as part of the document as you get in other countries, but the KC reg gives the parentage and the rest of the pedigree can be verified on from there.

Well before most of us had computers, hand written was all that was available & to a few still is. Mine used to be all hand written, although my last litter did progress to computer printed on lovely coloured card.

I refuse to pay silly price for KC one, especially as mine is correct & signed to say it is.

Both my breeder and her breeder do this as well most in my breed circle and ringcraft.  I thought it common practice but if you want to save a few quid from puppy sales i guess the hand printed one could be quite sweet.

as someone who spends a lot of time putting a lot of effort into my own  pedigrees I find this statement slighty insulting. All my pups are KC reg and have thier Certificates as proof of parentage, why should anyone lie of falsify a pedigree when it can all be verified with a visit to the KC site. It is not done for cost but because I think it much nices to see a breeder who cares enough to spend time and efort in producing a personal touch.
Aileen

Have to say i always include a KC 5 generation pedigree in my puppy pack, i feel it is better and is nice for the owner to have an official pedigree, i know that the kc reg states the dam and sire but many people would not know what is behind them and at least by giving the kc one they know its all genuine. I think the kc take liberties as it has gone up to £7 per pedigree but really its worth to show new owners everything is done correctly. i do include a handprinted one as this can show hip scores and shutzhund titles etc and any extra info as JG has already said, but i would be happier when buying my puppy if it came with a kc pedigree.

Everyone does things the way they feel right

Exactly Aileen. I even put a photo of the puppy in question on my pedigrees and was really pleased when I bought a puppy recently and his breeder had done the same -especially considering I bought him as a 6 month old and now got to see a pic of him aged 8 weeks. :)

Its all well saying you print your own off but who says they are genuine.

Hi Sunshine, l suppose if anyone was hell bent on falsifying pedigrees, there is no reason why they couldn't falsify the paper work sent, in to register their puppies. I would have thought that only puppy farmers would stoop that low. As has been said before, " formal " K.C. pedigrees can be readily purchased directly from the Kennel Club.

I have always thought that getting the KC ones , a bit like getting the KC to choose names showed a lack of personal involvement in the litter.

When researching the dog to use you will be putting the pedigree together to see how it looks, to check whether the lines further back are compatible etc, to then have the boring KC printed ones seems pointless duplication, when you can do a better personalised job of it.

I have always thought that getting the KC ones , a bit like getting the KC to choose names showed a lack of personal involvement in the litter.

I  always thought exactly the same. A sort of lazy, couldn't care less attitude.

When researching the dog to use you will be putting the pedigree together to see how it looks, to check whether the liens further back are compatible etc, to then have the boring KC printed ones seems pointless, when you can do a personalised job of it.

Goodness, the hours that l have spent over the years, poring over pedigrees, and the pleasure and anticipation felt when at this planning stage, was something l would not have wanted to miss.

Its all well saying you print your own off but who says they are genuine.  only you and you could put whatever you liked.  Do your own whistles and bells if you want, it could be nice but include the official one as well.

I would hope that b the time my pups are old enough to go to thier new homes the byers would have the confidence in me to know I would never falsify a pedigree.....maybe you are bying pups from the wrong people if you think them capable of this behaviour.
Aileen

>Its all well saying you print your own off but who says they are genuine.  only you and you could put whatever you liked.

If you don't trust the breeder enough on a simple thing that's so easy to verify (by ringing the KC) then you shouldn't be buying from them anyway.

Just a KC one shows a lack of personal care IMO.

The KC ones do not include the overseas and hunting titles which are very important in a functional breed like mine.  The KC version is an inaccurate representation of an elkhound's background.  I prefer to use my own accurate version, with all of the ancestors' titles on it, rather than the KC version with half of the titles missing.

Also when you use imported or overseas dogs the KC ones can have lots of holes in giving only 3 generations on that side.

> Its all well saying you print your own off but who says they are genuine.  only you and you could put whatever you liked.

The Registration Certificate with the sire and dam is the 'genuine' article and the proof that the pups are who you say they are.  We also make our own pedigree's with photos of the dogs etc.  I also include a shedload of other stuff in our puppy packs.  If I've registered the pups with the KC then why do I also (as a breeder) want to line the KC pockets with more money for something that most people will lose or throw away.  When they register the pup they can request an 'official' one from the KC and it will tell them the exact same thing that mine will tell them.

Shoot I can buy a pedigree from any dog from the KC - doesn't prove the pup I'm handing over is from that pedigree - that's only proven (to a point) with the registration certificate.  I've even seen official KC pedigrees for sale on ebay (and reported them).