My 9 years old son is just about to start out at Open level jnr handling, he has done about 8 companion shows this year and has always been placed, he has won his class at the past 5 shows :) He resently went on a Jnr handling workshop (what a fab day!!!) so he has learnt the patterns and golden rules...etc.......
Does anyone have any tips for me to pass to him??? my ringcraft doesn't really know much about jnr handling.

He is very confident and handles our Tibetan Terriers very well, but as I am him mum (and i'm new to showing) he dosen't really listen to me. I watched him practicing today and his corners on the T and L look slightly to rounded. (i'm going by the marina white book)

How often are children asked to do figures of 8?
Do judges ask questions to handlers about points of the dog..etc??
what kinda questions do judges normally ask?
How big should his T and L's be?

Thankyou in advance for anyone's help :)

Usually, in my experience with my daughter...........confidence plays a huge part along with an empathy towards the dog.
Sharp turns are cleaner than rounded ones and use all possible ring space unless the dog is tiny or the judge suggests otherwise.
An ability to show the teeth well is good too.
Has he been to the Marina White JH web site?

Karen :)

Have never asked for a figure eight but always ask a question. Think rapport with the dog, never show any irritation no matter how provoked by your exhibit, be polite and courteous to fellow competitors and above all listen to what you are asked to do and if you did not hear or understand, ask. Oh, and try to speak loud enough to be heard.

Edit to say the most common fault is coming between the judge and your exhibit - and making a 'performance' of moving round the dogs if the judge moves round it, move out of the way, yes, but don't make it a theatrical performance you should be as invisible as possible.

My  nephew has been doing JH for almost 2 years now - before that I had never given it any thought.  IT is a subject which is a bit hard to actually get a hang of, as judges are looking for very different things - if you get a former Junior Handler then it is all pretty much plain sailing, but with older judges you can find anything form almost judging just as a breed class to almost making the kids perform a sort of line dance!  He has never been asked to do a figure eight, but T's, sometimes reverse T's, and reverse Triangles have all occurred pretty often.

The not getting between dog and judge is the big thing, apart from at the very top level in international competition - not sure why this is.  It is important to be able to show the teeth efficiently, and to listen very carefully to the judges instructions - it is not guaranteed that each handler will be asked to do the same pattern.  Having said all that Max really loves the handling classes, and is now revving up towards the semi finals at Richmond.

Good luck to him for Richmond............disliked it last year as judge was not my cup of tea at all............
Not making the trip this year as it is too expensive to justify.

Karen

Myself and my daughter started showing (just for fun) 2 years.  She was 13 at the time and we only planned to do one Open show to see what it was about.  She entered the Junior handling and was placed in the top 3 qualifying her for Richmond the following year.  Of course that meant that we were hooked and continued to do the shows and learn as we went.

I can recommend any of the Marina Scott workshops (look at her website http://www.juniorhandling.co.uk/) and the YKC weekends.  Both brilliant value for money.  On the books side, there is Marina's book which is excellent (written under her maiden name ) Junior Handling the White Way, Junior handling by Jacqui Hurley is very good if you can get it and there is also a DVD by her - Handling Showdogs The Hurley Way.

2 years in my daughter is friends with a few of the local Juniors, they're always linked up on facebook!

Unfortunatley for us, our first "show" dog was not good enough in the breed ring and it gauls me as they have to be entered in the breed class to go in the handling.  However now we've got to know people, there is often someone elses dog on the end of her lead and that's given her great experience of other breeds too!

I would also suggest keeping your dog looking smart in it's free stand pose as I have noticed a lot of judges looking up the line up after every handler and only those that are not talking or in show pose have been placed (This happens a lot in the Adult Handling too).

i had that happen at one show i went to but i am sorry, i refuse to have my dog in a "show pose" for 20 minutes, its not worth it and i think its unfair on the dog, i believe handling to be about also the welfare of the dog so i chose to allow my dog to relax in between. i did get placed though and passed comment to the person next to me saying does the judge seriously expect us to stand the dogs for the whole time - as previously stated (i think) most handleing classes are at the end of the day so dogs are tired. My dogs welfare and happiness are far more important to me than a bit of ribbon :)

Conversely a lot of JH judges like to see the dogs and the young handlers relaxed and interacting during the "Down time" when other dogs are being looked at.  As far as I can remember Max has never been placed down the line due to playing with his dog whilst waiting or after being seen, and he has always been taught to relax his dog until it is ready to be seen.  We don't seem to have any Junior Handling teach ins up here, which is a shame, and his parents would not let him go to the YKC camp, but he has picked up tips from one or two former Juniors, and some judges have been very helpful in giving on the spot critiques after the classes.

IMO the dog can be relaxed but should be minding its own business and not interfering with others and the handler although relaxed should be watching both their exhibit and the judge - if asked to do as the previous handler they should know what that was.

Our ringcraft used to tell us to always be working our dog and keep them in show pose, sorry but that's impossible, imagine a freestanding breed like mine and the size of classes we get at champ shows, sometimes 30 dogs, there is no way a dog could stand and wag for that long. What I do in handling classes is let the dog relax while the judge is going over a dog, and then stand her while the dog the judge is looking at is moving, not necessarily a perfect stand but just so I look like I'm doing something with the dog and not just nattering. That way the dog gets a rest while the judge isn't looking, and if the judge does glance at the line while the other dog is being moved, they see my dog standing nicely!

Hi there was it the training day with Marina and Helena that you attended?  My two daughters were there too - it really is a fantastic day!

Do you get DW?  Think there is a pic of your lad in the centre spread coverage of the day?

The younger age classes generally use the basic patterns - triangle and up and down.

Always remember the golden rule - not going between dog and judge - its such an easy thing to forget.  Make sure he practices the different turns that are used to avoid this - show turn, about turn etc. (are there more! you can tell I'm only the jnr handling mum!)

Teeth presentation is something that some judges really are keen on so make sure if he shows the teeth the judge can see them - again another easy mistake.

Tell him to himself and don't worry!  Have fun with his dog.

Tell him not to go first in the class then he can watch what the other handlers are being asked do (but don't go last) as then he may need to rush to set up when the judge has finished.

Generally the handlers aren't expected to always have their dog in a show pose but talking in class with the other handlers isn't encouraged - focus on what and where the judge is.

In the three years my daughter has been showing she has never been asked a figure of 8 in the younger class.  Sometimes it might be used in the older group or adults to try and split a close decision.

Some judges as a matter of course ask points of the dog - they may also ask what group the dog is in and number of teeth etc and what breed.  They may ask the age of the dog.  But again this isn't always the case.

With regard T's and L's again the isn't often asked in the younger age group but might be for BJH.  Use the ring to determine the size really - just make sure the shapes are clear and the T is even each size.  Corners should be sharp (one of my daughters always rounds!) - I also have the don't listen to mum - I've found that if I video to go through she seems much more open to discussion :)

Where are you based - have you looked on Marina's site for a handling class near you?

As I said the most important thing is for him enjoy his time with his dog in the ring - good luck and hope he has fun :)

I get my DW tomorrow!!!!! I'm excited to see it :) My lad handles a Tibetan Terrier

Corrrr.......it is so much to take in for me.....so I can only imagine how Lewis feels......
The golden rule is drummed onto his head, lol.....
teeth presentation is getting there...... He's still a little fingers and thumbs

He has been doing patterns and turns everyday this week :)
I have just told him to listen, smile, be polite, try your best but most of all just enjoy it!!! :)

He spend ages at bluewater picking out a suit (I thought I was bad shopping, lol)

I hoping to get chatting to other JH Mums and hopefully pickup tips and learn more about what expected of him.

A HUGE Thank you to everyone  who has replied and given me tips...

ARgggghhhhhhhhhhh..... just gotta get though his first open show now.........
He will not even be a tiny bit nervous....but I will be ;)

Thankyou once again xxx

Not sure if it has been mentioned and i know you put about being polite but one tiny thing would be dont forget to thank the judge even if you dont get placed.

lucydogs, what breed do you have ??

Hi Claire I show Cavaliers - apparently before I started showing, puppy bitch classes could have 40 or 50 dogs in, but even with falling entries 20 or 30 is not unusual at a Champ show.

wow that is impressive numbers :)

Great pic of you son in DW!  He looks very attentive

Good luck with his first show.  Be thankful he's not a girl, mine's always on the look out for the next handling suit!

Arrr... thankyou...Ha ha... well he maybe a lad but he still took over an hour to pick out his suit.......lol

">well he maybe a lad but he still took over an hour to pick out his suit.......lol

But will he want another next week?

> ">well he maybe a lad but he still took over an hour to pick out his suit.......lol
>
> But will he want another next week?

LOL well you can't be seen in the same thing too many times!!

Arrrrr.... bless his heart..... he came 5th..... he did so well his pattern work was spot on.......but he made the fatal error of getting between the dog and the judge when he took her off the table. :(

Oh never mind - onto the next show !  It happens in those first few shows!  So much to think about!

As long as he enjoyed it :)

was you at east kent today? if so i saw your boy in the ring my youngest was the girl with the dane who won her class. i though he done really well

Yes, he had the tibetan terrier. I personally thought he should of got placed higher considering the lab head butted the judge and the bulldog nearly run out the ring....but....hey....never mind.
up at Ardingly next week....so try, try again :)

Your daughter  did very well with a HUGE dog in that tiny ring :) congrats x

Yes he did enjoy it....he was a little upset and had a little cry when he came out the ring. But he is fine now :)

Glad he enjoyed it :)

We are at Ardingly (Horley) next weekend too - we will have to wear badges so we can say hello!

> Ardingly (Horley) next weekend too

:-(, I can't make it to that show....

But will be there at the Eastbourne show on the 19th, entered both the boys
Anyone want to handle a Bernese in the breed ring?

You know Jess will if you want - but only if they will be happy :)

If its not going to clash with your breed classes and also JH then she can handle the youngster, he's easier than the elder with others. She handled him very well the other night at club and I was impressed with both of them.
They aren't in the same class, but it would be easier to have 2 different handlers tbh..

Ok if Bos will be happy then Jess I'm sure would love too :)

yeah we all though he should of been placed higher considering the bulldog and the lab, i was also told the mum of the other girl with the bulldog was not happy with the placing. But thank you rhiannon done so well today especially since that was the first time she had ever handled blue usually my eldest leigh-ann trys to nab him lol, she usually only handels a rough collie but hes away at wales with his owner, we will be at ardingly as well next week rhiannon will be handeling one of our bullmastiffs as the rough is away again and the dane isnt entered at that show.

> We are at Ardingly (Horley) next weekend too - we will have to wear badges so we can say hello!

Yes defo :)
9.30 judging starts next week..... nice early one...i'll have to leave about 7.30.

were going to eastbourne, if you need a hand come find my leigh-ann im sure she will be more than happy to help in the breed classes if you need someone plus it will be another breed she can add to her list.

Hmmm........ strange placings!!!! oh well.... :) lewis kept maisie under control, calm, his reverse triangle was good, ok....he did step in front of her when he took her off the table...but still???  I actually couldn't see very well as I was hiding so Maisie did spot me...but from what you saw did he do anything majorly wrong? be totally honest....lol......we are so new and we need all the help we can get x

Rhiannon 100% deserved to win the class.

I reckon it will be a big entry next week............
Right, pratice, practice, practice............................lol....... he really wants to go qualify for Richmond

> But will be there at the Eastbourne show on the 19th, entered both the boys <IMG alt=eek src="/images/eek.gif">
> Anyone want to handle a Bernese in the breed ring?

I missed the deadline for Eastborne!!!!! gutted :(

Thanks Denny, i'll put Leigh-Ann on the list too :-)

Luckily we are v. close to Ardingly - and our breed 5th in the ring but will get there for 9.30-10.00 ish !

Handling doens't have a ring or time designated !

I am sure Lewis will qualify for Richmond - plenty of time :)  Just enjoy it. 

Its so nice to see some new handlers coming out :)

I will look forward to seeing the 'suit'.

Hopefully you can see which breed my daughter handles !  If not its a Gordon - and I think I owe you an apology as think we were introduced via email! by CJ?

> Luckily we are v. close to Ardingly - and our breed 5th in the ring but will get there for 9.30-10.00 ish !

Lucky you, but we are very close to lockmedow, lol

>
> Handling doens't have a ring or time designated !

Yep it does, i just check the POOJ, ring 12 after GSP and Weimaraners

>
> I am sure Lewis will qualify for Richmond - plenty of time :-)&nbsp; Just enjoy it.&nbsp;

He was hoping to qualify this year...but I reckon it will be next year now ;)

>
> Its so nice to see some new handlers coming out :-)
>
> I will look forward to seeing the 'suit'.

Ha, ha, He loves the suit..........arrr...bless...this lovely lady (she told us she was 90yrs!!!) came upto after his class and told him how smart he looked and how wonderful he handled his dog today :) she then whispered to me....'he should of been at least been 3rd in his class, and I know what i'm talking about' lol.... but he did look very smart!!!

>
> Hopefully you can see which breed my daughter handles !&nbsp; If not its a Gordon - and I think I owe you an apology as think we were introduced via email! by CJ?

???? you have lost me hunni ???? lol.....(it don't take alot...lol)

LOL - lockmeadow is not close for us :)

You are right - missed that!!! blind though!

Never mind put this one down to experience and on to Sunday :)

Ah must be someone else then !  OOOPS it was the TT that made me think it was you!  so we will put that aside LOL!

> Ah must be someone else then !&nbsp; OOOPS it was the TT that made me think it was you!&nbsp; so we will put that aside LOL!

lol....I know there is another newbie handler showing a TT...... ha ha

Right we must find each other next week and chin wag ;)
So your daughter handles a Gordon Setter and she came 2nd on the handling day??? right??

Yes that's right :) :) See you next week :)

>> I am sure Lewis will qualify for Richmond - plenty of time :-)&nbsp; Just enjoy it.&nbsp;
> He was hoping to qualify this year...but I reckon it will be next year now ;-)

Too late for this year anyway as the entries are already in as Richmond is only a few weeks away.  If it's not too far for you, why not go to the show anyway and have a look round.  On the good side it'll also take the pressure off and give him time to get the experience.

right to be 100% honest besides the getting between the judge and dog he did do well, he man handled the dog a little at the end they prefer them to walk them into position then rearrange the feet rather than trying to lift the dog up to face them the right way. but i know a lot of handlers do this its just something our tranier wont allow the girls to do, make the finish look smarter i think and more polished, but that all comes with experiance in the ring yes persoanlly i would of placed him 2nd or 3rd in that class his up and down and triangle were great nice straight lines which is where a lot of handlers mess up, but for his first show he did do really well, rhiannon has only been showing 18 months or so but she has a very naturel talent for it and at first was a nervous reck when showing but as she has gone her her confidence has improved but shes never got cockie with it like some of the young handlers and as your boys confidence grows he will do better. rhiannon has been very lucky her normal handeling dog even though not owned by us in so madly in love with her that they just work so well together it has got to the point where hes owner can't even show him in the breed ring because he wont show for anyone else and if she goes off with another dog he gets very jelous lol.

All in all i dont think you boy dis anthing marjorly wrong today and it will come with experiance and lot of traning, if he wants a few pointer a bit of pratice before the handeling next weekend come and find us and we can put both kids through their paces.

Entrys for richmond have closed so any qualifiers will be for next year now, first time leigh-ann qualified was a week after the richmond entrys closed so she had a whole year to pratice, so he will have plenty of time to get in lots of pratice for next years richmond.

Thank you for the lovley comments about Rhiannon i am a very proud mummy today, she has proved to me she can handle the bigger dogs well and she will be doing a lot more with our lot in the future, i think the judge today was a bit unkind in the challenge for best handler the winner of the older class has a pom and she made them gait in such a small ring with a huge dog like blue but i think rhiannon done very well but she had to work a lot harder than the winner, she has still got just over a year left in the younger class and i think she is going to be hot on the heels of the older handlers when she moves up to the older class.

Rach, can't make Horley now, SIL's 50th - I'm not a happy bunny :-(

LucyLewis, saw your boy in the paper, wondered who he was as it's the breed I grew up with.  Hope to meet you at a show sometime!

No worries CJ (ps definitely not the lady and son you emailed me about then! oops!)

Take care and enjoy your SIL b'day (family first hmph ;))

See you at Richmond? then Eastbourne?

I have just arranged an hours lesson for him with an ex jnr handler, and we will work on tidying up!

It will be great to meet up with lots of mums at shows ans i'm sure I will learn alot too....lol......

thanks again guys xxx

Actually have just worked out I do know Lucy but it was the SWD lad not TT that I introduced you to lol!  All these kids eh?!

Yes at Richmond, but don't expect me to be anywhere near the JH ring (although she's worked really hard with my dog & seems to be building up a rapport with her)