My friend bought a beautiful blue roan cocker spaniel in january this year age 8 weeks.She paid £700 for the puppy but did not get papers but because she thought she had a healthy puppy her 2 boys could enjoy growing up with she wasnt reall concerned about that.Unfortunately she didnt ask about health tests and at around 8 months it became really clear something was really wrong with the puppys hips.After getting an xray it was confirmed that Maisie has luxated hips on both sides and the vet told my friend its the most severe case he had seen. My friend phoned the breeder who said she had never had a case in 40 years of breeding cockers and labs and refunded the price of the puppy.I looked after Maisie while the family went on holiday in july and it was heartbreaking to see her shuffling around not bouncing around like a puppy should.At the beginning of aug Maisie had her first op on one hip and she cried in pain for a whole day afterwards,her mum said it was truly awful!! at the weekend i noticed an advert from the same breeder with pups for sale so i decided to call and pose as a potential new puppy owner.I asked firstly if she tested for pra her  response was....good heavens no,i dont need to,i havent had pra in my lines the whole 40 years ive been breeding.I then asked if she hip score,this time she laughed and said...labradors maby but not cockers,ive never had any reports of hip problems in my whole 40 years of breeding! She then told me if i was that worried i should go elsewhere for a pup that did health test but only to put my mind at rest.Today my friend was out taking maisie for her few mins stroll in the park and she bumped into another owner of a cocker,turns out this cocker has pra and hip problems and he was from the same breeder as Maisie.Her mum now wants to do something about it so the breeer cant produce any more poor pups that will suffer like Maisie has,any advice will be really appreciated.I almost forgot to add that the other dog has a whole host of other problems too and Maisie has skin problems.Thanks

Really sorry to hear about your friends' experience, how awful, and that the breeder has carried on breeding from the same lines that are carrying a problem.  Is it worth perhaps getting in touch with the breed club, if they actively compete with their dogs in any way???

I'm going to start a new thread about the health testing thing, because I don't want to hijack your post, but good luck, I hope you get some good advice about what course of action you may be able to take. 

Unfortunately the only thing you can do is contact trading standards because the pup is not suitable for purpose. As the pup is not registered then I doubt the parents are and would be surprised if this puppy farmer belonged to any club. A visit or letter from trading standards may cause her to think twice but I doubt it and as she returned the purchase price I am not too sure the trading standards would act either. If your friend is the type she could try suing for pain and distress that might cause the 'breeder' to think twice.

This so called breeder is very well known in aberdeenshire and everyone who knows of her sings her praises,its infuriating!! I wondered if the scottish spca would do something,afterall its knowingly producing animals that will suffer,it makes me so angry!!

sounds like not alot can be done, your friend has excepted a refund

Well there is no harm it trying but as your friend accepted the money back they are going to say it happens to anyone on occasion and they did they honourable thing and returned the fee.

Does this breeder show?

If she's an accredited breeder then you can contact the KC, but to be truthful as she gave the money back they may not be able to do anything.

> Does this breeder show?

In ignorance, why do you ask this?

Nothing like getting a bad name among your peers. 

People actively involved in dogs other than simply breeding and selling them will be worried about their reputation and want to protect it.

>This so called breeder is very well known in aberdeenshire and everyone who knows of her sings her praises,its infuriating!!

What is she well known for?  I would have expected that a show or working breeder would be quite careful of their good reputation...

Buyers must do their best to make educated and informed choices and sadly your friend has learnt the hard way.  "She paid £700 for the puppy but did not get papers but because she thought she had a healthy puppy her 2 boys could enjoy growing up with she wasnt reall concerned about that.Unfortunately she didnt ask about health tests and at around 8 months it became really clear something was really wrong with the puppys hips"

It sounds as if this isn't a very good breeder BUT your friend wasn't forced to buy a puppy and the breeder has discharged her responsibility by refunding the money.  Whilst I'm very sad that the puppy has suffered I do get a bit irritated that the messages are still not getting through to buyers about how to choose a good breeder.  In the fight to improve the health and wellbeing of dogs, and eradicating puppy farmers, educating buyers is one of the most important things any of us can do.  I'd love to know just where to place the blame for that but I do think more work needs to be done to inform and educate.

A huge part of me wants to shout "SEE - this is what can happen when you don't do your research, take a puppy without papers, or neglect to ask about health tests".  I am so sorry for your friend, and for her puppy, but every time someone buys a pup without this research they are lining the breeders pocket and making sure that the breeder keeps on doing what they are doing: after all there is obviously a market for their untested, unregistered dogs.  It makes me want to spit and curse.

> I'd love to know just where to place the blame for that but I do think more work needs to be done to inform and educate.

A friend of mine has a Lab, not even 2yrs old. Poor thing was raised in a barn/stable of some description, they felt sorry for him so paid for him and took him home. The boy who is of sound temperament, so thankfully something good has come out of it. He's had a number of operations due to hip issues. He's always lame for one reason or another. Arthritis is now setting in, so is now on meds. He's had other issues which can't be said if hereditary or not.
Basically they have suffered, the dog has suffered and is likely to now through his whole life. The family have said they made a mistake, should of been stronger and won't ever be getting a dog from a place like that again and have learnt their lesson...

The breeder doesnt register the pups so she isnt accredited breeder and does not show.My friend just wants her to get all her dogs eye tested and hip scored then spay/neuter any dogs that are affected.

but the average one dog owner may only have 3 or 4 dogs throughout their adult life, and if they had a bad experience may not have another, that's a high proportion of potential owners that will happily buy from a bad source, and then there are those who give homes to the disregarded who come from the same kind of background.

Luck will mean that a goodly proportion of badly bred pups will be reasonably trouble free, so people really don't see the need to be more careful, and often pay more for the privilege of owning a dog with a better start in life.

If you accept a refund, I don't see how anyone is in a position to complain.

You can't say that pup "is not fit for purpose" when you have not actually paid for a pup.

Dogs a babe...she is simply well known because of the length of time she has been breeding,many people in aberdeenshire have a pup/dog from her.I had no idea she didnt health test or register the puppies,it just goes to show that being well known means nothing at all.

>Dogs a babe...she is simply well known because of the length of time she has been breeding,many people in aberdeenshire have a pup/dog from her

Ah - so a big fish in a smallish pond.  It's a shame if people don't feel they have other choices simply based on location too, the trouble is that it isn't practical for everyone to travel miles for a good pup but of course that might work out cheaper in the long run...

This is an interesting thread about someone looking to prevent a family member from making the same mistake that your friend did.  With the best will in the world we can't educate everyone but I do wish that people opened their eyes, ears and minds before they bought themselves a problem.  Sadly some people only really understand their mistake when they have a problem and many, as Brainless says, will be lucky and avoid any such issues.

no one can force anyone to health test, it is not a legal requirement.  If she produces faulty goods and makes good by refunding the purchase price she has more or less covered herself legally.

I have never heard the term luxating hips before, was this definitely hip dysplasia and not luxating patellas?

jean sw :You can't say that pup "is not fit for purpose" when you have not actually paid for a pup.

Jean sw, My friend isnt trying to get any more money or even say pup is not fit for purpose,she kmows the puppy is poorly,that fact has been established,she simply wants to try and get the breeder to see sense and stop this happening.She also wants to warn others so they dont have to go through the heartache she has gone through but she is not sure of the legal side of this,can this be slander if what she is stating is actually true?

The breeders and others like here will continue on their merry way while it is profitable for them to do so.

With dumb luck a lot of the pups she breeds will be reasonably OK, some owners won't relate any future problems (going blind when older etc) to poor breeding.

The only way to stop bad breeding is for people to refuse to buy badly bred pups.

If all potential owners insisted on KC registration, proof of relevant health tests etc this person would have to do so or be unable to sell her pups.

As it is people are more than happy to buy, and when one turns out badly soon after sale she refunds the price and goes along on her own sweet way, as the owners an pups long term welfare is not her concern, getting a high price with the least outlay is.  £700 for a poorly bred unregistered pup. 

In my breed we Hip score, eye testing, DNA test and Kidney function test, often very long distances to travel for studs (including abroad), stud fees are the price of a puppy, yet pups in the breed are only around £650.

For that you get a breeder with lifelong commitment to the pups they breed who can be contacted for advice all along, and if the worst happens will be there to help re-home.