Hello everyone,
Well, only two and a bit weeks to go before we get out lab!!!!:D I'm checking all of her things, and making a list of last minute bits to get before we get her. I was wandering, I want to start basic training straight away (into the crate, toilet etc) what sort of titbits would be best? I've got a few things-Shape's biscuits, some meaty sticks which I thought I could cut up into small pieces. Would these be suitable, and what other ideas are there? Thanks!
Nic :)

If she's having a dry food diet, how about using bits of that as treats? That way you can regulate her intake.

Or bits of apple or carrot? (Although I perfectly understand if you don't want to wander round with bits of cut up apple in your pockets :P )

I find few dogs can refuse liver or liver cake...

She's on Chudleys Puppy food, which is a complete feed-sort of little pellets which are moist. So yes, I could use that-good idea:). The liver....can you buy it ready cooked? I know that sounds sad, but the mere thought of cooking liver makes me feel quite ill! ;).
Thanks for your suggestions so far,
Nic :)

We did avoid using treats. Best to get them to do things for luv :) A good large beefbone is excellent to stop them chewing the furntiture, etc and can be put in it's mouth when pup starts chewing you !

Daisy

I'm reading 'The Perfect Puppy' by Gwen Bailey, she suggests this 'reward method training'. I thought it made sense as most dogs (especially Labs:)) are motivated by food!!!:D I see your point though.
Nic:)

The training club that I have been going to for a few years never encourage treats for the dogs. The owners may need them sometimes tho' :)

Daisy

I usually only use treats for house training - a tiny bit of something on completion of performance - and ocasionally lead training to keep their attention. I very ocasionally give the house dogs a treat ( about once a week!) when they come in from the garden when called. I think for basic obedience - though I am no expert, this is just what I do - for things like go to bed, come, sit, stay etc its just praise that they get. I think they should be motivated by the natural desire to please and "get it right" rather than always expect food. I always feed small puppies in the crate and as they are dancing for their dinner say "In the crate" and put the food in. Doesn't take long for them to get the idea. Not long to wait now, you must be really excited!!

That sounds like a good plan, I don't want her to expect food ALL the time, but I guess when she does get it, it will be appreciated more! Yes, really looking forward to it, but with a bit of trepidation, a bit like the last month of pregnancy, you want the baby, but start to wake up at night worring about wether you are doing the right thing :D He He!!!
Nic :)

Yes Nic, a Labrador is food orientated and when I did obedience I used treats but for working gundogs I never treat. It should not be necessary and can in this case be counter productive by taking the puppy's mind off what it should be doing. Also the puppy/dog should be working for me not for food.

As in all things there are more than one way to do just about everything. As I said, in the old days I used treats and when I started it was choc drops. Just about everyone I knew had a pocket permanently glued up by chocolate which had melted and stuck the pocket together. When the small cat treats come on the market people converted to this because it was clean, dry and had the strong smell to catch the dog’s attention. The downside of treats is that the dog soon learns where you carry it then it is nothing but a distraction! If you are going to use it TAKE CARE! It is so easy to miss time it and offer it at a time when the dog is doing the wrong thing. For example, your dog does not come when called so you get a treat out. Your dog says, "This is great, if I stay here when my owner says "Come" then I get a treat!"

What ever happens, don’t get into the habit of rewarding everything all the time. You are the leader and your dog should work for you, not just for food.

Regards, John

Thanks John (and everyone else), this makes perfect sense! I'd been reading the book, and had my mind set that that was the best way to train. Hearing other people's opinions has helped me to realise that there is more than one way to skin a cat (so to speak!!) I will mainly use praise as a reward for suitable responses, and games, saving food treats for occasional use. Thanks again, will keep you all posted on Lucy's progress!
Nic :)

That's interesting Westie Lover, I have never used treats for house training just praise it never crossed my mind to use them for that. I do use treats and toys for all other types of training tho'
Anne

I have used just praise in the past, but now enjoy using treats. I feel that if used correctly they can be a really good training aid, (but toys are the best ever training aid IMHO).

It is easy to use treats either as a Lure - so for example can use them in the hand to lure a young pup into Sit, Down and Stand, and the pup learns the hand signals which is a bonus :)

They can also be used as a Reward, when the dog gets them during trainng when learning new things, or for doing something particulary well, showing self control, etc. I practice clicker training and of course treats are used in that, IMO with very good results.

Once a dog knows what to do, the treats are phased out!!! Many people think they must be giving treats forever, but that's not so. The dog can be asked to do 2 things before the reward, then maybe 3, then (as with one method of teacing heelwork, with the dog touching the hand) the dog can be reinforced "variably" so 2 steps get a reward, then 4, then 2, then 6, then 3, then 7, etc etc) .

So there a a few ways of using food and treats as rewards. In my view using very special treats can make the difference in attitude, and then once treats are phased out, over days, weeks or months, the dog will still be enthusiastic and will work for no treats.

I do reward my dog when she has done well, because i feel she deserves it, but I often start with treats and then go on to make the toy her reward. Well, I have to keep her nice little waistline don't i ;) :D :)

Good luck

LIndsay

Hello
I have taken my dog training lately and apparently the smellier the food the better!!
I have seen the most unruliest dog jump through hoops for this stuff!!! I call it beef jerky but its actually called Puffed Jerky by Webbox, and you can get it from safeways sainsburys in a red packet 99p!! Oh wilcos does it for 69p! You can break it into little bits and its dry so NO MESS in your pockets!!! Its NOT FATTENING because its really dehydrated!!!
My pup loves it!!! MOST DO!!!!
hope that helps pinky

reward based treat training is certainly a great way of getting your pups attention, and many excellent trainers use it. my trainer won crufts obedience one year, so she is well qualified to recommend using treats. the trick is to find out what tickles your dog's fancy! they will work for what they best enjoy...some for food, or toys, or love! my affie works best for food :) make it a special treat to get more attention...my girl likes cooked chicken, ham, salami, cheese...tiny amounts suffice :)

Thanks guys,
It's all really useful info. Only two weeks to go now!!! :D

The puippy training classes I go to use treats for training, my problem is my puppy is NOT food orientated ! so whereas the other pups are doing really well and do almost anything for a treat mine will take it or leave it !! and do things in his own time and if the fancy takes him!!
thankfuully the trainer has recognised this and encourages me that he will be trained it will just take a little longer as he is doing it for me not the treats! so saying he is learning and getting better every day , some treats at home for calming behaviour indoors are welcomed and I dont know if these are good or not but they are Weetos!! the breakfast cereal!

I find that one of the best training treats is dried liver. Buy it as a lump, boil it, clean bits off and feed in gravey to dog as part of meal, then slice it and dry it in the oven. Keep some out and freeze the rest using when required. Break into tip of little finger (or smaller if you have big fingers) to use.

Use only for training and not as general treats.

I believe strongly in reward based training - doing it because s/he loves me - fine if the dog knows what it is supposed to be doing but whilst learning the extra incentive - be it play, food or touch is useful.

My instructor competes and judges at Ch. C level (and teaches to that level) and encourages whichever reward the dog will work best for.

Christine

I agree with what you say about rewards, except that of using food. Our dogs will always get praise, play or a game with a toy used for retrieving, for example. Without getting into a 'my instructor is better than yours' argument :( , can I just say that ours are probably as qualified/experienced, but find using food is not necessary or is counter-productive. Obviously, everyone has their own opinions/experience :)

Daisy

It's the same as the way you bring up your children, not everyone will agree on the same way, but that dos'nt mean that one way is better than another! Thank you all for the responses, it's given me a lot to think about. We saw the pups again today and have finally chosen Lucy!
Nic ;)

Not long to go now Nic! What are your plans? Is she to be a pet, show, working girl? The planning is so much fun! As Anna is in season I had to leave her at home today and since I've been in she won't leave me! She's making sure I don't slip out again without her!

Regards, John

Hello John,
Lucy is going to be a pet, but I have plans to make sure she is well trained! Nothing worse than an owner who can't keep their dog under control :(. My parents had a Lab when I was a child, he was lovely, but he frequently went walk about and we would get a call from the other side of the village to say he was playing with the children on the playing field!!!
Nic :)

The Labrador has a TV persona of being a cuddly little bear. Unfortunately this is not the case! By the time they are six months old, without training they are capable of taking their owner any place they want to go! They also supplement their diet with their owner’s furniture and floors! Training is essential and also mental stimulation. With that there is no finer dog than a Labrador.

John