A friend of mine inquired re a puppy (large breed), that was fine , now the puppies are born the breeder wants £150 up front payable over internet, to secure a puppy which is non refundable! The puppies are only days old!
Is this usual for some Breeders wanting money up front, before even going and seeing the puppies, and deciding if you want one?

Tell your friend to run a mile! What good breeder would even agree to sell a puppy before having met the person?  Very few good breeders would accept deposits at all.

I agree 100% with Marianne.  Not a person to buy from. :(

Tell your friend to find another breeder. Pay a non refundable deposit without seeing a pup...no way

>now the puppies are born the breeder wants £150 up front payable over internet, to secure a puppy which is non refundable!

Blimey - just imagine how many 'virtual puppies' this breeder/fleecer can sell, without having to actually part with any of them.  Very lucrative :(

I have to disagree to some extent.

I think the amount of the deposit is high, but I do take a deposit of £50 from the people I have accepted onto my waiting list, primarily so that I know who is actually committed to having a puppy, no deposit and I am free to offer the pup elsewhere, to people who are lower on the waiting list, or who would be acceptable later are able to have a puppy instead, if those higher up do not want to commit.

With a numerically small breed when the litter are born and there are not enough of the right sex to fill the bookings it is important to get the people who have been waiting onto another breeders waiting list sooner than later.  It can be very frustrating for a potential owner on a waiting list missing out on litter after litter.

On lady was on my list (but only 2 bitches born) passed to another breeder, but again not high enough on the list for the bitches born, finally she was lucky with the third breeder, as she managed to get on the top of the list for a bitch pup.  Took her 9 months to get that far and nearly a year to get the puppy.

Works for me, especially as I usually have had quite a rapport with the people on my waiting list.

One of the owners of my most recent litter had waited on two of my litters (bitches missed) and another breeders litter before getting her pup.

Most of them will not see the puppies for several weeks with long distances to travel.

I never ever take a deposit and this does sound a bit like a scam, pay £150 over the internet????  I would be running.

I have never taken a deposit and never will.

There is no way I'd pay a deposit on a pup that I hadn't actually seen. In fact, I've never paid a deposit either.

I'd run a mile.

In normal circumstances, seen the pup,commit to buy and taken off availability I would take a deposit (non refundable to cover future keep of the pup if they back out).  like Brainless said, the clients are on the list and vetted.  Even then i bet they wouldn't offer the deposit without seeing the pup first even buy pic and trusting Brainless.

Hope she doesn't lose her money and think its ok.

It does come down to trust in the end.

I never take a deposit, I always have far more people than pups and explain that to move from the possible list to the yes list requires a visit. If they are willing to visit often from the other side of the country then I know they are committed (It often costs more for a visit than a £50 deposit!) This time I have 12 on the yes list but they do know there will not be enough to go round!!! so many are already on other lists.
No compulsion to buy if they have a change of mind ;)
I never take a penny till they come to collect on the day.
Aileen

Now in my breed it certainly is not the done thing to be on several lists, how is the breeder to know if the person is really on their list or not?

When I bred my first litter I had the book of the bitch, that suggested taking deposits (I think 20% rings a bell).

I had just 3 pups to sell, and didn't take deposits, passed all surplus enquiries onto other breeders and found 3 people let me down on two puppies (my first buyer has been a  great Friend ever since).
 
I was left with pups at 9 weeks to re-advertise, which took another 10 days or so for the dog papers (before Internet).  With lots of nice potential owners passed up, I was left with pups ready to go and having to decide on new owners more quickly than if I had been in touch with them for weeks/months.

From the second litter on I have taken deposits to avoid time wasters.

> A friend of mine inquired re a puppy (large breed), that was fine , now the puppies are born the breeder wants £150 up front payable over internet, to secure a puppy which is non refundable

TBH this sounds like a scam if she has never met the breeder in the flesh and the breeders dogs.
Where is this so called breeder anyway? Nigeria? Sorry but so many of these scams are run from there its untrue. Its bigger in the States as many pups are shipped across the country so many more fall foul of this scam.

It's easy enough to check out a breeder, are they breed club members and the details passed to potential owner from same, show their dogs (just google the affix) these are very unlikely to be scammers, and of course they should have spoken to them on the phone and/or visited etc for the vetting.

What type of person takes money without meeting the prospective owner and checking that they are right for the breed and good enough to have one of the pups?
I have only had 3 litters but have never taken deposits, I just trust my gut instinct.

Hopefully the prospective owner will do more reseacrh about the chosen breed and discover the correct way to approach puppy purchase.

I made 'scam' assumption based on some triggers in the post

A friend of mine inquired - suggests casual enquiry possibly over the telephone
wants £150 - a large sum
up front - fairly common 'sales' term (and interestingly not worded as deposit)
over internet - inflexible
non-refundable - again, it's a lot of money if there is a chance that you might not want one of the puppies and/or haven't developed a relationship with the breeder

I've read the debates about deposits many times on here and whilst not cut and dried (ie Brainless example), the taking of deposits can sometimes cause issues for the breeder and propective puppy owner and aren't to be entered into lightly.  If in doubt, maybe the breed club can advise if it's usual practise in their breed.

I would always advise anyone to verify a breeders standing via a breed club.

With Marianne on this one - I can possibly understand someone taking a deposit after pups have been viewed and owners assesed etc but a stranger never met - No!

but where does it say the person has not met the breeder, only that they hadn't seen the pups.

I certainly advise people coming a long way that pups are not doing a lot to be viewed until 4 weeks plus, (others within an hours drive have visited even weekly) by which time I would want to know they were spoken for.

just to add to the thread :) it seems a ridiculous age to be taking deposits. what happens if "their" puppy dies next week? Do they get their money back?? As a non deposit taker (we appear to be in 2 camps on CD! :)   ) id steer clear.

My friends have went elsewhere, but they only had contact with "this breeder" by email.
The "Breeder" sent them a email saying the puppies had been born, and if they wanted one to pay £150 over the internet by paypal, she knows nothing of my friends, there experience with this breed etc...

What type of person takes money without meeting the prospective owner - exactly!  I have a list of potential owners for my current litter - not one of them is 'guaranteed' a puppy until I have met the whole family.  When both myself and the new owners are happy with everything about me as a breeder, the pups, mum, conditions they are raised it etc and I am sure they can offer pup a good, loving and hopefully 'forever' home, do I take a deposit.

I feel by taking a deposit, the new owners feel that pup is almost theirs and can really start to prepare for its home coming.

> wanted one to pay £150 over the internet by paypal,

Paypal isn't secure outside of ebay, so no one would be able to dispute it then either.

In my life, both at home in Sweden and here in England, I have bought quite a few dogs. Only ONCE have I been asked to pay a deposit -and as it happened, that puppy died before being old enough to be collected. No other breeder has ever asked for a deposit, and I have had pups from quite a few very wellknown ones over the years. I never worried they'd sell the puppy to anyone else.  With my own buyers they often ask if I want a deposit, I always say no, and I don't think anybody has worried. I've made sure to update at least weekly on progress.

In over 20 years we never have and never will take a deposit.  I would say walk away.

have to echo everything ells-bells has said.......walk away! 

Asking for a deposit without meeting at all is something a good breeder would never do and asking for payment via paypal on the internet says SCAM to me, oh dear no doubt some people will indeed be foolish enough to hand over their hard earned cash!

Quite agree, not the same as someone putting a deposit on a puppy they have booked but not seen where they have been on a breeders waiting list, been vetted, met the breeder and the breeders dogs before the litter were conceived or born.

Personally I prefer that prospective owners visit before there are any puppies to be seen, so that they re choosing to have a dog not be distracted by a cute puppy.

Such a person will happily pay a reservation fee/deposit once pups are born and viable.

I agree no relationship between breeder and buyer and anonymous payment method (no address to check as in sending a cheque), sounds like a scam in this case.

> says SCAM to me, oh dear no doubt some people will indeed be foolish enough to hand over their hard earned cash!

A fool and his money are soon parted!!!!

I usually only take a small deposit once ive met the prospective owners and am happy that that they can offer the best home for the pup. They can then visit as many times as they like before the pup is ready to go home. Saying this, a couple of times ive had a prospective owner that just cant travel across the country to see the puppy they want. In this case they've wanted to send a small deposit to show they are genuine and not a time waster. I talk on the phone, send pictures and find out as much about them as possible, but always on the understanding that when they come to get the puppy, if i feel their not suited or they dont like the puppy then i will refund the deposit. I dont even let people veiw the pups untill they are 5 wks, let alone ask for a deposit before the pups are even born. Some people...lol. x