has anyone come across dwarfism in a pup before? some of you may remember me being concerned about the smallest pup in my litter, well i had him to the vets and the vet mentioned that he could have dwarfism, the vet said he carried most of his weight over his front legs and was very clumsy on his feet (i put this down to his small size) the vet has put him on ABs to clear up his runs, my breed are renound for the runs as they have sensitive stomachs.

so if anyone has any info on dwarfism could you please share it with me, it hasnt been diagnosed yet, i am going back to the vets on wednesday with him but it was the first thing that the vet mentioned

Dwarfism is more common in some breeds than others so in this instance it needs to be identified.  The kind of dwarfism is also important as to long term prognosis.

well my breed is siberian huskies, (might get shot down for putting that :-/ ) i have googled it but it isnt coming up with anything for huskies so it cant be a common thing in my breed and i have never heard of it before

Thre is quite a lot when googling, and I have heard of it, so I think you will find it is not that uncommon. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=dwarfism+in+Siberian+Huskies&meta=&rlz=

Even known a case in our breed Barbara, only one but it does and can happen. As far as I can remember she, it was a bitch, lived a reasonable life with no unusual problems except, of course, she could not be shown or breed.

I think it depends on if it is Pituitary (sp) dwarfism (found in gsd's and Malamutes I believe) where the life expectancy is poor, or simple achondroplasia (short legs) which doesn't affect quality of life, and is how many of our short legged breeds came about. 

Ann had one like that out of her last D litter, appeared normal to 6 weeks and didn't then go up on leg, they were about 3/4 length, there are pictures of 'Dolly' in the journals.

Indeed that was the bitch I was thinking of, never heard or any others have you.

I believe one of the quarantine born ones in the 1980's imported from USA turned out this way.

I know it is worryingly common in one of the sled dog breeds, the form that has a poor prognosis.

The 'short leg' form does not seem to change anything else Dolly seemed healthy as far as I remember and resembled in my eyes a Swedish Valhund however I can see if it is cause by damage or a fault in the pituitary gland it could be far more serious the damaged hormone would effect the whole system where as I believe the 'short leg' variety is caused by a gene malfunction in the womb affecting only the bone growth of the legs. I may well be wrong and you will know and correct I am sure.

> fault in the pituitary gland it could be far more serious the damaged hormone would effect the whole system

I met a dwarf GSD about 15 yrs ago and got talking to the owner, it looked like a 4-5month pup but was about 3 yrs old, seem to remember her saying that as well as never getting an adult coat the dog also had teeth problem, ie adult teeth not developing properly. I think she said there were a few other development things but I can't remember what, (its the age you know)
Chris

My book describes Pituitary dwarfism as causing stunting although the animal is perfectly proportioned (unlike the condition that causes just the legs to remain short) It continues to say that the affected animal remains as a puppy for much longer than usual with fluffy coat, shrill bark and retaining the first teeth. This condition of lack of hormone from the pituitary gland is often associated with lack or reduced production of other hormones particularly the thyroid and gomnadotrophic (sex I think) hormones. Treatment is usually expensive and disappointing.

Hello my name Jose, I recently took my bitch "LUNA" to the vet because she just turned 7 months old and her weight is only 41lbs.  I was told by my vet that she could have several problems, so we ran the first test which was to check her liver, that test came back normal.  Then an ultrasound of the heart was done, and that test too came back negative for any problems.  The vet then suggested that we do an xray to ensure that nothing was missed during the ultrasound, and again there was nothing wrong with her heart, joints, or lungs... and my wife and I were relieved that our dog was 100% normal.  The vet then advised me that he was 99% positive that my bitch has Pituitary Dwarfism, but to make sure the vet took a blood sample from our dog and sent it off to Michigan to get a comfirmation on the diagnosis.  The problem I have now is that I bought this female to be a mate for my 120 pound male "PAPO", but now that our female is a dwarf the vet said that in order to mate the dog we would have to find another dwarf male so I am now looking for one

Mod edit: email address removed

Why the heck do you want to mate a dog which suffers from dwarfism? Its a medical disorder and many dogs suffer many problems with it. How on earth can a vet promote breeding from one, and then to breed it with another dwarf? Sorry this is not good at all.
Luna72 please get your bitch spayed and forget ever breeding from her, she is likely to suffer from many health issues and there is no way on this earth you'd ever want to assist in this problem occurring further. You are not breeding for the right reasons.
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2109&aid=869
It states normal life spans are not to be expected...

The whole point of breeding is to produce sound typical examples of the breed not pups with health problems.  I can't believe your serious!!!

Hello again this is Jose in reference to my earlier post about my dwarf bitch Luna.... 

I forgot to mention that I also asked the vet if thier would be any problems with breeding Luna, and he said that she can breed that thier would be no problems at all, he did say that the only exception he sees is that I would need to breed her with another dwarf male of same breed to ensure that there wouldn't be any complication's at the time of delivery.

Special note: My vet also noted that there were no deformity's, all limbs are normal and proportioned correctly, gums are healthy and no issues with her teeth, her coat is shiny and softer then the normal coarse coat for my breed, however it is not as soft as puppy fur which kind of nice considering that normal fur is coarse, I would say its in between the puppy fur and the adult coarse coat.  

Vets are very rarely experts on breeding, and especially not experts on breed standards and quality (unless geneticists or breeders themselves).

Your bitch is not the quality to be bred from, and as pituitary dwarfism is liked to a shortened lifespan why would you want to breed from her, there is not good and proper reason to do so.

Even  if her dwarfism was not a health issue or hereditary her small size would put her in grave danger, as if it really made no difference to her offspring, they would be normal size and she would have great difficulty during pregnancy and birth, not to mention the strain of rearing them.

I'm sorry, but unless a dog is a good, sound and healthy example of its breed it shouldn't be bred from. Luna is none of those things and so should remain as a much-loved pet only, and never have puppies. It's not fair on her, the puppy buyers or the breed as a whole.

he said that she can breed that thier would be no problems at all
How can he know? I'm sure you have a lovely dog, but why would you want to breed from her knowing she has growth problems - it is uterly bizarre. Why would you wish to subject her to such a thing when you don't know how she will be in a couple of years let alone any offspring.

If this poster is for real and his vet has really said this, then we have a situation where a vet is actually promoting the very thing that responsible show breeders are accused of - irresponsible breeding!!!!!

We need a vomit icon!

I can't help myself saying this 'you're mad' if you're thinking of breeding this bitch.  Think sensibly - if you do manage to find a dwarf male to mate her with, have you thought what health issues may come to light in the next generation?  You would not be breeding to the breed standard, so what's the point?  Think of what you may be 'lumbering' potential new owners with - a possible lifetime of health issues/expense.

Many of us have had setbacks when wanting to breed - but you just have to accept the fact that this bitch is not suitable for breeding and move on.

I really hope you listen to the good advice that has been given in earlier posts and take it!!

> Think of what you may be 'lumbering' potential new owners with - a possible lifetime of health issues/expense.

Totally agree, but even more so what about the health issues to the pups. We have a dog with severe growth and health issues, told we should have taken him back but he was part of our family by then and what would have happened to him I shudder to think about. Love him to bits but 5 going on 90, not a life I would wish on any pup, dog or owner. Why would you wish to even think about breeding when there is the smallest of chances of health issues. Please think again.

It is almost impossible to believe this poster is serious. With luck the dog will not reach maturity to be able to be mated because should she be allowed to whelp the chances are she would die in the attempt anyway. The limbs may be normal but there is likely to be many other problems that would make breeding an impossible risk to the bitch. No can't be true, must be a leg pull, even in the US with their desire for tea pot dogs can someone be so very stupid.

It is almost impossible to believe this poster is serious - I quite agree - but there do seem to be more and more 'silly' posts about breeding from time to time.

>The problem I have now is that I bought this female to be a mate for my 120 pounid male "PAPO"<


This is a problem that can arise whenever a bitch pup is kept for breeding.   You are not the first person to find that the bitch they planned to breed from is not of sufficient quality/temperament and is unsuitable.   Most responsible breeders would simply spey her and keep her as a pet or find her a suitable home elsewhere and start again with a bitch who is closer to the standard and of better quality.

To breed Quality pups/dogs you need to start with Quality parents anything less is a waste of time and unfair on prospective owners, it's also unfair on the dogs.

> xmlns= >It is almost impossible to believe this poster is serious - I quite agree - but there do seem to be more and more 'silly' posts about breeding from time to time.

Yes, you are correct but this steps beyond the 'silly' into the down right ridiculous, no one would put what is a sick dog through an unnecessary risk to their life - still as I said the bitch may well not come into season or if she does she may well be barren.

If I belonged (took my dogs) to this vet practise and I'd heard they'd given the O.K for this, I would be moving my dogs else where. JC.

>  >If I belonged (took my dogs) to this vet practise and I'd heard they'd given the O.K for this, I would be moving my dogs else where. JC.

I would be doing my best to have their licence to practice removed. To breed from an animal suffering from the type of dwarfism that just effects the length of leg is safe, if unethical, way to breed 'Basset' type animals. To attempt or suggest that someone breeds from an animal with pituitary dwarfism is horrendous verging on the criminal. In fact, in the UK it would be criminal as it is causing unnecessary suffering to an animal.

or if she does she may well be barren.- we can only hope and pray she is...

> >or if she does she may well be barren.- we can only hope and pray she is...

If I remember rightly the pituitary controls hormones, so even if the girl came into season normally there might not be enough of the right kind of hormones for a successful pregnancy and labour.

There is a good chance, the pituitary gland works closely with others in the body particularly the glands associated with reproduction and they in turn the control of growth.

It's also the gland mainly responsible for lactation.

> It's also the gland mainly responsible for lactation.

Totally stupid idea then to even consider breeding from a Pituitary dwarf. There's nothing new in heaven and earth... you can bet it's been tried before, it would be known about if it was ok, and we wouldn't be here trying to argue against 10,000+ years of what works for dogs and what doesn't.

Think we can relax, the poster who said they wished to breed this terminally sick animal has not come back so hopefully it was just a wind up.

Unbfortunately the poster is from the USA and it's not unusual to see "Dwarf" breeds advertised over there, so sadly wouldn't be suprised at all that the vets recommended breeding.
And they say that our breeding in the UK is bad!