Ok =- here's snippet from thsi weeks dog papers

" ....we should discourage any handling or presentation practices at dog shows which the public would fail to understand and appreciate  and that is why we must make our shows as normal and enjoyable as we can ...."

normal and enjoyable ??? ..excuse me but I really did'nt think I was taking part in an 'abnormal ' hobby and surely the enjoyment of the specators is directly linked into how interested they are ...personally I found  the recent wall to wall football and tennis far from enjoyable - did I 'understand and appreciate it ? ...NO ...but equally would I expect those that do enjoy these hobbies to change them for my sake..?.. well no !.

I'm sick to the back teeth of having to wear a hair shirt over my chosen hobby of dog showing , of crack pots such as those in the RSPCA saying I am cruel if I breed my dogs according to their breed standard  and of having stupid suggestions such as the recent ones that we exhibitors show our dogs in fancy dress in order to make things more lenjoyable for Joe public... NO NO NO  is it not about time that we stood up and said TOUGH ... if you don't like it then don't take part or watch !!!

..and by the way just WHAT is golf all about ??? ....now THAT's a weird hobby !!

Yvonne

quite.

Could say the same of Darts, motor racing, snooker etc

>..and by the way just WHAT is golf all about ??? ....now THAT's a weird hobby !!

That's a decent walk ruined, unless you are my dad or my son ;-) I like to watch sports on the telly (sitting watching the F1 practice session as I type ;-) ) but take part in it? No thanks. Dog showing is my sport, so please keep your hands off it.........

Now football?  What's that about?  22 grown men chasing a ball about a field!!  And the in-house fighting, god, I thought dog showing was
b!tchy.....

well should'nt we be sending this mesage loud and clear to those who are meant to be on our side ?  - can you imagine what the likes of Jemima Harrison et al  would make of the dog press themselves branding dog showing 'abnormal' -and our beloved Chairman running scared of the RSPCA in this months Kennel Gazette  ...  just who'se fighting our corner ?

Yvonne

Since when did the dog show fancy become a public entertainment?

Ever since spectators have been allowed in.

But that does not mean it is a public entertainment, the public can find it entertaining but that is different.

Dancing with dogs is purely entertainment.

But that has nothing to do with dog showing that is a hobby or if well done a theatrical performance.

>that has nothing to do with dog showing that is a hobby

Dog showing is a hobby as well! ;-) Dancing with dogs is one of the things has been introduced to dog shows specifically to make them more attractive to the public. The days where dog shows were purely to compare breeding stock are long gone.

Think we are at cross purposes, the general public may find watching a dog show entertaining but that is not its purpose where as Dancing with dogs is, well I would have thought it was although it is may just be another form of obedience I suppose. What I can't understand why does a dog show have to be entertaining to the public - surely it is a very limited market and the money brought into it by the public can not be worth disrupting everything for.
Not, of course, thinking about Crufts that long since became an indoor market.

precisely - why should exhibitors  care if others outside the hobby find it 'boring' in it's present state ? - I was at East of England on Friday where the committee run a Dogs activity  type of event alongside the show ( forgot what it is called ) - I tell you that part of the showground was deserted apart from one small Cavalier twirling around as part of it's dancing with dogs routine ( in the searing heat ! ) but no one was watching - - most folk were round the showing rings because THATS what they came to a dog show for .

I had to admit to spluttering into my coffee at the suggestion that male exhibitors should show in drag in order to 'entertain' the public - I can just see  a load of Les Dawson lookalikes competing for BIS !

yvonne

>> " ....we should discourage any handling or presentation practices at dog shows which the public would fail to understand and appreciate  and that is why we must make our shows as normal and enjoyable as we can ...."
>

My take on this is to discourage the type of scenarios often photographed and in the newapapers prior to Crufts for example. You know the ones which are toted out each year and make me cringe... the poodles in the fog of hairspray, the Westies in the cloud of chalk.

I agree that we shouldn't be ashamed participating in our hobby but even I cringe at some sights seen around modern dog shows.

Who can blame sane people  from baulking at dogs hanging from a grooming noose all day or dogs having face paint applied.

These things tarnish the whole dog scene but I am not naive enough to think the KC are are actually suggesting these practices cease for the sake of the dogs. :-(

You may be right, spend most of my time with the hound group where this sort of thing, should it exist, is not done in your face and my own breed requires nothing beyond a normal light groom. if that.

I can never understand why people find it necessary to do a full groom at a show, most bring their exhibits to the show ready groomed and only requiring last moment 'quick lick' so to speak. However I have been at open shows where someone walks in with a fur ball and spends a couple of hours finding buried beneath a very smart terrier or a poodle, it is, I suppose, interesting to see what will emerge perhaps someone could start a book on it. :-)

Perhaps benching and grooming areas should not be open to the public after all we are not allowed into changing rooms or the physio. room at other sporting events so why is the public allowed into the canine equivalent, in my experience dogs do not like being disturbed on their benches by strangers. Reckon I will start a campaign requesting the RSPCA step in and stop our dogs being harassed by people they do not know and disturbed during their rest, must be cruel surely.

the poodles in the fog of hairspray, the Westies in the cloud of chalk

but both these are not allowed under KC rules anyway ...all the KC have to do is apply their own rules more firmly ...not because the watching public might find it 'abnormal' but because it's cheating !!
but then I have a 'rustic' breed with little required in the way of coat preaparation beyond a good brush out !

Personally I don't mind the public coming around the rings or benches to find out more about the breed - we do afterall need to attract new blood and in common with most breed enthusiasts I just LOVE talking about my own breed

presentation and handling techniques that the public would 'fail to understand and appreciate ' could well  mean the stacking of gundogs, the way that Yorkies are shown on those little red boxes ,the show clips loved by the poodle folk and  the use of liver by the Boxer people ,...am I bothered that they dont understand and appreciate all these different techniques  ....NO ...!

Yvonne

There is no rule about using chalk it must not remain in the coat when the dog is in the ring so that could not be stopped at the grooming table it is after all a well known way to clean the hair and when I was a child talcum was used on the hair to clean it between shampoos (war time) Not so sure about hair spray but would think that if it is brushed out before presenting in the ring it is not against the KC rules any more than back combing and blow drying the coat against it's natural lay. Have a feeling that some of the more eccentric grooming has found its way over the pond along with some OTT handling and it is surprising how quickly it catches on particularly if applied to a winning dog.

We were benched with airedales yesterday and I saw more than one standing - hanging on a noose for hours...... acceptable to anyone, let alone the general public?

> Yorkies are shown on those little red boxes

And then their entire coat wrapped then encased in a baby gro in full view. Acceptable to the dog show fraternity because we are used to it but maybe there's too much of the Joe Public in me yet.

hurray!

i am very new to showing. I didn't think I would be as interested in this as working my dogs, but when the dog clearly enjoys it I don't see why I should have to apologise for it or keep quiet about it, as though it is some kind of especially unpleasant cult religion by which we are all brainwashed into exploiting defenceless creatures. This is my family's take on it, although one of my sons did come along to help me out once :). I've found people incredibly kid, patient and supportive--while that might not be true of every breed, I am enormously grateful to my dogs' breeders and breeders who wouldn't know me from Adam for all their advice, encouragement and good humour! I don't play golf either but I doubt there's as much sheer goodwill and sharing there.

Then there's all the guff I get about how much I spend on it (very little, I can't afford more than an intermittent interest), as though my salary should exclusively prioritise subsidies for my adult children. One of my sons recently told me that he expects to be able to spend 40% of his income on going out!!! I suggested leaving home to rent a place of his own for a one way ticket out of cloud cuckoo land.                                                                                                

I think once again the RSPCA has shot itself in the foot. They are  openly suggesting that we begin to treat our dogs like curcus animals...doing tricks, dressing up for the public, I for one avoid curcuses for just that reason, I find it wrong to train animals to perform tricks to entertain us. I have no gripe with obedience though did swop with My GSD's to working trials as I found competition obedience too formal and regimented. I am a believer in basic pet obedience for everyones sake, to have a well behaved dog, but not  so much rigid competition type obedience. That Is how I feel. I have a breed that is wash and wear and my show dogs are bathed and groomed out before a show (they are kept clean and well groomed at all times for thier own comfort anyway) requiring just a quick tidy up prior to showing.  The amount of overgrooming in some breeds is not for me so I do not have those breeds. I think the KC rules for presentation at shows should reflect the fact that a clean well groomed (As in No tangles) dog is what we are looking for not a cardboard cut out of a dog where every one is like a replica in stance because the coats are trimmed to cover up the faults (Yes some groomers can hide a multitude of sins, Joe public never gets to Feel a dog and would not know what he felt anyway).
I use the show rings to reinforce my feelings that I have a dog that conforms with the standard required for it to perform it's given job in life.
It prevents kennel blindness and ensures I only breed from correct stock. (On the odd occasion that I do breed a litter)
For me a show is as much a fun chatty day out with my dogs, they enjoy it as they love to meet and greet, I do not show dogs that hate the show environment. It gives me a view into others opinion on my dogs and certainly in my breed it involves no long hours standing on a table being moulded into a perfect shape.
The overgrooming creeping into this country from the USA I hate. Even in my breed some are being trimmed and I feel the coat is being over blown creating a coat without the "natural sheen" and loosing the "Slightly wavy but not curling" type we should have, and instead producing a fluff ball of a dog. Strangely the AKA standard calls for "shown in natural coat and overdue trimming is to be discouraged"
I am 100% behind a move to show dogs as nature made them, leave the scissors and hairspray at home and lest get into natural beauty rather than couffured beauty!
Dog shows should be a social event and that should be for the dogs as well.
Aileen

Could I ask those of you who show other animals if the same 'interest' is being shown towards them? Or is it just show dogs? Are we the only ones being picked on?

My dogs spend most of their time either out in the garden routing about in the foliage (sorry, weeds ;-) ) digging up my so-called lawn, or are out in the woods for a walk. On the odd occasion that I get to shows they get bathed and groomed. It only takes minutes. Don't think I would want a breed that takes ours..... ;-)

My dogs are dogs, not namby pamby living toys.