Hi there,
I'm fairly new to the forum, but would like some advice please if anyone can help. :o)

My dog has just got over a bout of Pancreatitis (1st time). Prior to this he had no health issues other than Hypothyroidism diagnosed 2 weeks before the PC. He has always been fed a raw meat diet (6 years), but now I am going to change him onto 50/50 raw and complete. He will still have his green tripe, eco mince (heart and lungs) and chicken carcasses (no skin), but I would also like to find a good quality complete. I am not blaming his diet, as his weight was a contributing factor in his PC (due to his thyroid), but some things he can no longer have, and I want to make sure he is getting everything he needs, and feel a 50/50 diet would be the best option.

I know lots of people who feed either Arden Grange, Burns, Royal Cainin or CSJ. But personally I had always though if I were to change to complete, I wouldn't want to feed them due to the high grain content. So, for me Orijen and Acana had always seemed the best. Being a raw feeder the idea of 70/30 meat/veg appeals.

The thing I am unsure about though, is being that he needs a low fat diet would the diets with more grain be better for him? I am speaking (emailng) CSJ and Burns, who have been very helpful, offering samples and advice - but of course they are going to say grains would do him good. In was shocked at Orijens lack of help though, they told me to buy the 400g bags offered no advice at all! :o(

Anyway, does anyone have any experiance with PC and what complete foods are best? He has been having a home cooked chicken/veg diet with a prescription dry (not Hills), but I would like to get him onto a regular regime.

Basically my head is telling me Orijen/Acana, but I don't know if the high meat content is a good thing in this case.

Any advise greatly recieved. :o)
xx

Try speaking to Karen at Bern Pet Foods, I have found her really helpfull and gave good advice form my diabetic dog.

I did get a reply from Bern, but they didn't state who it was, just a member of the team. Who ever it was they said to order the 400g bags and try it.

Definitely ask to speak to Karen at Bern, she is extremely helpful and very knowledgable.

Will do. Wanted to know if anyone not affilated with a particular brand had any opinions really.
But will speak to Karen. :o)

Hi

My old Dobe had PC for the last few years of his life.  As you already know the major factor is too much fat, they can't break it down so it passes straight through the system.  I can only tell you what worked for him.  I put him onto basic Chappie ( dried ) or the old style Vitalin ( not the one that looks like rabbit food ! ), both of which are low in fat.  He also had the wet Chappie.  There is a powder you can get called Tryplase ( sp ? ), I used to get mine from Canine Chemist.  You sprinkle it on every meal and it replaces the enzymes that break down the fat.  Very good stuff, but I would ask your Vet about it first.  He also had the low fat treats from pedigree.  Def no raw hide etc.  So basically it's the no fat rule.  I advised a friend of mine to try it on her old Dobe and he hasn't looked back since, he's maintained his body weight and condition has returned as he is now digesting the food correctly. None of these dogs had thyroid probs tho, so you'll have to factor this in.

Hope this helps a little, my old lad never had any probs with this diet.  Good luck, you can def get it sorted out.

Thanks very much for your reply :o)

He has the Tryplase caps on his meals already, vet said he may not need these forever but to see how he goes. I think from what you have said, and others I have spoken to, that grains are not going to be a bad thing in his case. Although generally I'm not keen on the idea, for his condistion most people seem to feed a diet with grain and find that the best.

I will still speak to Karen at Orijin, but it's hard as each company I have spoken to are telling me different things. AG said wet food is beat as it is easier to digest. Burns said to stay away from wet food as it contains more fat. How do you know who to go with?

I think peoples experiances are a good way to judge things, so thank you for the advice. You're not the only one to mention Chappie either. I think, if I were to use it, I would just use it while he gets over this bout (which unfortunatly he had a relapse of over the weekend), and then try him on a low fat/sensitive dry. But it is defo something I will bear in mind.

He had been having a tiny meal of green tripe a day, but he will be staying on his prescription dry for a few months now and only when he has not have any problems for at least 4 weeks will I try to add something to it VERY gradually. He's now had 2 relapses, nothing that needed a vet trip, but 24 hours of starving and Tramadol. He is losing so much weight though. :o(

Anyway, thanks for the help.

He'll be OK, but it takes time.  If he is well enough in himself don't worry too much about the weight loss.  It's a bit of a minefield to be honest until you find the right diet.

I didn't use tripe so I don't know what my boys' reaction would have been.  He was just on dried until he cleared up then I was adding little here and there to see if he could tolerate anything.  I understand about your reluctance to feed grains but if it works then you have nothing to lose.

Let me know how you get on

> will still speak to Karen at Orijin, but it's hard as each company I have spoken to are telling me different things. AG said wet food is beat as it is easier to digest. Burns said to stay away from wet food as it contains more fat. How do you know who to go with?
>

Each brand of food will suggest something different. The content of AG wet food is likely to be very different to that of another brand. Do Burns do a wet food, if not then that maybe their ploy for you not to go elsewhere? Sorry not a fan of their food at all.
Karen is great at Orijen and if you get to meet her face to face even better - often she is at champ shows :-).
The AG team are very good and know their products inside out.

I have been switching between Orijen(when pocket allows), AG and CSJ(the latter dogs eat but aren't too interested in). Just recently went up to AG and said I wanted a food which would suit my breed and get their coats back as they have taken ages to shed - was given 3 choices and left with samples. My dogs chose what they preferred and luckily it was the same one.
Also they get raw when I get to a butchers - luckily they are having lots and lots of rabbits right now :-).

I have no vested interest in any brand, so my advice is from the experience of owning dogs that have suffered from pancreatitis.

My last girl had it for 7 years, and the vet said she lasted that long because I was meticulous about not allowing any treats or any fat in her diet.

Veterinary research (some years back) proved that a dog suffering from pancreatitis would benefit from staying on pancreatic enzymes for life.  It was published in the Veterinary Journal.

While I used Tryplase with my first dog, I used Pancrex for my second girl.  It is the same thing, but less expensive.  And, mixed in with wet food, helps the enzymes get to work.

You won't be best pleased to hear that she stopped being given meat.  But I wanted her to live!  Her treat was a bowl of vegetables.  I used Hills Prescription ID for years.  I gave her the tinned as her normal food, but bought small bags of the dry complete to give her when the other dogs had a treat or dog biscuits.

In her last couple of years she used to have tinned Chappie as a change from the ID.  I was never silly enough to think that, just because she was doing well, I could give her a "treat" and I think that is why I never had one single relapse.  I think that, just because things seemed to be improving, you gave him something to cause a relapse.  I would honestly advise you NOT to add something, even gradually.  Remember that this is an excrutiatingly painful disease.

Just my honest take on this curse of a disease.

Totally agree with JeanSW.

Once I'd sorted my boy out he stayed on the same diet for years.  It was a case of it's not broken don't fix it !!!! The dog will not realise that he's not having extras, only that the pain has gone.  He used to get his treats along side the others but only the fat free ones, these he seemed fine on although not all dogs will.  Fat to a PC dog is like giving them poison.

He never ate a meal without his Tryplas and was comfortable right to the end of his days.  It's not easy but don't feed him what you would like him to eat, its all about what suits him best.

Hi again, Thank you for your replies.

I have found a great Holistic vet who I am going to be getting dietry advice from in the very near future. He has treated a lady I know whos dog had PC 18 months ago, and he is doing better than ever now on his natural diet. I'm back to the vet this saturday for check up bloods and a weigh in, so that will give me a better idea of whats going on inside.

I have joined a yahoo list for owners of dogs with PC, and have had a lot of really great advice from people there. A lovely lady who manages her PC suffering dog (for 6 years now) on raw, and manages other peoples dogs well too, has offered to chat to me about it and answer questions I may have. So maybe there is light at the end of the comercial tunnel lol

Clearly it is different for each dog, and you are right, it is a minefield until you find something that suits your dog. Some may not be able to have raw after a bout of PC, but I will find out as much as I can and what options I have before I rule it out. After just over 2 weeks I have noticed a change in his teeth, he usual pearly whites are not as bright and his breath smells :o( And he DOES miss his normal diet, how could he not! I have to spoon feed him this at times..

So I will hold out hope for a natural diet, but I won't push it if it's not something he can handle. In that case I will just have to continue with the teeth brushing!! lol

Thanks again everyone, wish us luck!! :oD

Sorry, one more thing... Vaccinations, were you told to not vaccinate anymore??

May be someone can give you pointers on the vacs.   I don't vaccinate my old dogs as I think their immunity system is well up and running.  I only vaccinate every 3 years anyway with Lapto every year for the others.

The old boy that had PC wasn't vaccinated after about his 6th year due to a very very advise reaction.  He blew up like a balloon and his skin literally fell away from his breast bone, very scary, even the vet said he'd seen nothing like it.  He'd been vaccinated a couple of days before, but of course the vet denied that it was related.  I'm talking a few years ago now before the vaccination protocol was questioned.  Altogether he was a very allergic dog bless him

No I don't vaccinate regularly either, he's not had a booster in 2 and a half years. I've seen some say after PC they are more at risk, and others say it can do a lot of damaged to an already compromised pancreas. I will speak to my vet about it, but hold off for now.

Thanks :o)