Hi Everyone,

I am sorry this is a bit long winded but thought I should give you all the facts. My poor girl has been unwell on and off since having her pups 4 weeks ago. she has been backwards and forwards to the vets for one thing or another. Just when I thought we had turned the corner with her, the pups have started weaning etc..she suddenly develops mastitis. I have been checking her teats every day to make sure they are nice and soft. Monday morning she went into the pups at around 7am after they had, had their breakfast. When she came out she was acting strangely, moving very slowly (previously she had been fine and happy) I felt her teats and to my horror discovered that her back teat was hard and swollen..it had been fine not 2 hours before? Normally if I have noticed any kind of lump or swelling with my other girls in the past I have just put the hot flannels on the affected teat and its gone down...but there was no indication she had the start of Mastitis at all. Her temperature was quite high 39.9 so I put the hot flannel on the teat massaged it..the poor girl was not herself and quite clearly not feeling right..she didnt want anything to eat which isnt like her.

So I called the vet he gave her an injection of AB and Metacam told me to keep doing what I had been doing and to bring her back the next morning which we did. The vet gave us the same jabs again as well as a weeks course of AB. She did seem to pick up and was eating again and happy to go into the pups yesterday, the teat was still at this point giving milk so thought it best to get the strongest pups on it to try and relieve some of the pressure for her. she seemed ok and not too uncomfortable. But last night she seemed to take a turn for the worse she was very hot, panting, her teat is just so hard and swollen as much as I try to massage it for her,which does seem to soften it to some degree its very painful for her and I noticed this morning that now there is a little blood in the small amount of milk coming out...I just dont know what else I can do for her? I was meant to start the AB tablets this morning when the jab wore off but felt the infection seemed to be spreading quicker than the AB was working, so gave her a tablet at 2am this morning in the hope it would at least get into her system sooner..I will then start the course as per instruction 1 1/2 tabs twice a day this morning. Her temperature during the night had shot up to 40 which alarmed me. I dont know what else the vet can do for her at this stage other than tell me to wait for the AB's to start working and fight the infection?

My worry is that necrossis might set in if it gets anymore swollen, I know the massaging will help with the blood supply and I have literally been doing this a couple of times an hour along with the hot flannels.  Its just so upsetting seeing her so uncomfortable and not being able to do anymore for her. I dont know if I should let her go into the pups now I have seen that little bit of blood in the milk,  the milk comes out sometimes then I get some blood. If anyone has any more advice as to what else I can do I would be very grateful?

I think that you should ring your vet this morning and explain to him your worries, he could be that the AB is not the right one, but they do take a little while to 'kick-in'.

If you do not put the pups onto her and are still feeding her more than usual she will still produce more milk, you can try expressing some of the milk by hand, massaging breaks the lumps up and you can feel the milk start to come down, but you would have to be very gentle.   You really need to make sure that the pups feed from her more, and gradually reduce her food and at the same time begin to put them on solids.  So that reducing the milk production is a slow process.   If you reduce her food she will start to loose weight if still feeding the pups, but this can be rectified once the pups are fully weaned.  

But off to the vet this morning for his reassurance.

Thanks dogsdinner, I did manage to express quite a bit of blood/brownish liquid from the teat a lot came out and the teat reduced to half I would say..she is no longer producing milk on that teat just this brownish (not sure if its the milk gone off or puss). It seemed to feel fairly soft for a short while but then filled up again. I have since extracted it again but noticed there were a couple of areas were she has a kind of blister near her nipple that is a deeper pink surrounded by a bruised area..the skin there feels a little thinner, she also has some dark bruising on the inside of this teat near her tummy..which concerned me a great deal. I did call the vet and got to have a chat with one of them I explained everything and he said that basically there isnt a great deal more that can be done at the moment (as I thought he might say, but needed to hear it) other than what I am doing..he said the AB's should kick in and hopefully stop it developing any further (they are the right ones). He said the darker area 
So what I am seeing could possibly be the start of an ulcer, he said sometimes they develop into something more nastier other times they get better. He said he would look at her if it would put our mind at rest but said that's all he could do really at this stage. She has been through enough the poor girl I didnt want to stress her out even more by another trip to the vets if he isnt going to do anything?  He said not to let the pups feed from  her, that in iteslf is a problem as surely her other teats will now become engourged with milk if she goes cold turkey, if I extract the milk then wont that make her produce more? She has only been going in 3 times during the day and once during the night at this stage.

I will cut her feeding down now though as this might help her not to produce too much milk, she hasnt been into the pups since 2am and so far her teats dont feel too full. I had intended increasing the pups to 4 meals a day now anyway as they are 4 weeks today. SO basically for now we just have to monitor it and hope it doesnt turn into anything more nastier than it already is.

Pleased that you were able to get to chat with your vet again to set your mind at rest that you are doing all that is possible.

Yes, if the pups are not going to feed from her you must reduce the amount of food that she is getting - I would put her back onto her normal rations (no extras) - you can always build her back up at a later date when she is better.   If the mammary glands fill up with milk you have to express them, I would not completely empty them i.e. you do not want to make her produce yet more milk.   Keep checking them firstly every couple of hours and if they feel full express a little of the milk, if they do not feel very full then leave it a little while.   Then gradually extend the time between expressing the milk, and with the reduction in food you should find that all goes smoothly.   Obviously it means keeping her away from the pups as well, as the mere sight of their young can encourage yet more milk to be produced.   It will take a few days to find that the mammary glands are not producing as much.   The brownish muck that is coming out of the back gland is due to the infection and that is why it fills up quickly, but again once the AB's start working there should be a reduction in the amount of matter coming out, it is best to get this out otherwise she will be ill again.

Let us know how you get on, and if no improvement, then you must take her back to the vet.   Good luck.

Thanks dogsdinner, useful tip about the milk I have been doing that..if I feel they are getting a bit full just taking out a little. We since my previous post we ended up going to the vets this afternoon as things didnt improve, her teat was so hard and the bruised area had turned black. When the vet saw her teat he said that the mastitis had turned into an absess and the stuff I had gotten out was puss. He said the only thing to do is lance it, so we got her up on the table and he lanced the 3 area's..the amount of puss that came out was unreal at least a pint the poor girl. He then flushed it out with diluted hibiscrub, and said I will need to do this 3 times a day. The 3 holes she now has in her teat you could get your finger in, she wont leave it alone..so I have had to cover it with a towel. I am just going to have to be very careful she doesnt get any kind of dirt in it when she goes out for a week as she is still leaking puss quite a bit.

I am just so pleased we took her to the vets today and didnt leave it, at least she must feel a lot more comfortable now. The vet said that the AB's she was on were right for the condition but said due to the puss in the teat AB's apparently dont work when puss is present, so hopefully now most of its gone she should start to feel better and the AB's will kick in and work.

Thanks for your advice today its been a great help
x     

I bet she feels better with all that muck drained away now, it will continue to drain which is good as it has to come out.

Hope it goes smoothly from now on - keep us posted.

I can't add further advice to the good advice that dogsdinner has given you.  Just wanted to say that I really feel for you, and know that I would be feeling worried if it was me.

Awful that it has turned out to be an abscess, but I can imagine that she must have a lot of relief having the muck emptied out.  I know how the pressure from an abscess is very painful, so hopefully your girl will move forward now that the AB's can do their job.

Thinking of you, and sending positive vibes for your girl.

Thanks JeanSW my girl is so much better understandibly, back to her normal self. I did manage to devise a method of protecting the teat form her licking it and keeping it away from the ground at the same time the wound could still drain. I used one of my bra's (dont laugh) padded the cup out with a folded flannel then tied the bra around her middle it worked a treat!

By bedtime she was frantic to get into the pups and they had been quite whingy all day even though they had, had 4 meals. The vet that did the lancing said provided I can protect the teat from the pups she could still go into them. as I had managed to do that I let her in and it worked great. The pups couldnt get to her teat at all, she was happy she had been in and the pups were happy to have seen mum. everyone was happy and we all got a good nights sleep the first since the pups were born!!

Wonderful how innovative we can be when desperate!!  :-)

If it works, that's just great.  I bet it was a bit emotional seeing her with her pups.  Bless her - it's amazing how strong their maternal instincts are.

I am so pleased that you are seeing improvement after the nightmare you've been through.

Thanks Jean SW she is going fine in herself but were the teat was lanced the holes have gotten bigger, one is the size of a 50p piece!! when I was cleaning it last night I noticed some of the tissue from inside her teat was coming out, it was horrible. Although the teat itself looks fine apart from the gaping hole!!

We took her in to the vets this morning so he could just check things looked ok..as I took her bra off to show him this hunk of flesh fell out it was just shocking. He said that, the hole had gotten quite big and wasnt totally happy with it looking like that, although said everything else looked fine. We have to take her back first thing Monday so he can asses if its gotten bigger or looks a bit better..he said that if left it may take a very long time to get better..he said perhaps the best option might be to just give her a masectomy at least it would be over and done with and in 10 days the stitches could come out and she would be fine. The alternative would be many weeks of keeping it covered and hoping it heals?

The worry I have is of course as she is feeding the pups the blood supply to her teats is at its height so to have a teat removed at this time I would imagine would carry more risk than at any other time. It will also mean that if she has to have this done, she will have to go in again around the middle of August as we intended getting her spayed after this litter..so the poor girl still has a lot to go through. I guess we will just have to see what the vet says on Monday. 

What a predicament to be in.  Have to admit that I would be at sixes and sevens trying to make up my mind which was best for my girl.

One of the reasons I try to time a spay in between seasons is all to do with the extra work tying off blood vessels.  I think you will have to hang fire on a decision until you can discuss the way forward with your vet.  Not easy to come to a decision when you are talking about a couple of GA's close together.

With the hole being so gaping, I can see why the bra is at least giving some protection from infection.  You must have a constant headache with the worry.

There is always something new for us all to learn, and it is good that you are willing to let us all know how things are proceeding.   Topics like this add to our dog knowledge.  I'm just glad that it isn't something that we hear of on a regular basis.  It doesn't seem fair though, for it to happen to someone who actually cares ( as opposed to the PF's)

We are all rooting for your girl. Let us know how things go on Monday.  Fingers, toes and paws X'd.

Thanks I will, I have to say that the bigger hole hasnt got any bigger since we went to the vets Friday, if anything it seems to be trying to seal itself although the hole on the underside of the teat has gotten bigger..but the actual teat and edges around the holes all look pink and healthy. there is no longer any discharge coming out or tissue. Its just flushing out clear so it maybe when we go the vets on Monday they may say to leave it perhaps another week and see how it goes?

I think stitching the hole is still an option rather than putting her through an op. My poor girl had to have a cesar due to complications when she had her pups so actually it would mean if she had this op, as well as being spayed in Mid August it would be 3 ops in the space of 4 months. I cant say I am happy about that, it does worry me. I think the CD forum is a fantastic place for breeders to share their experiences and draw on the wealth of knowledge that breeder have..this site has helped me so much in the past even when I havent posted I have always found a subject relavant with helpful answers..I dont think you ever stop learning when it comes to dog breeding and each litter you end up going through a new experience. Thanks for all your support xx

Pleased to hear that your girl is making progress.   Let us hope that the hole starts to heal by itself, but it may take time to do so.   But your vet is sure to know what to do when you go on Monday, as he will be able to assess how much healing is taking place.   Keep us posted.

will do xx

I know this is not entirely relevant but when sheep get summer mastitis the bag sometimes breaks open. There is often an enormous hole. All the pus drains out. It often forms a cheesy mass which can be removed manually. Providing the sheep has antibiotic cover the wound heals well but i would not be stitching it as the matter needs to drain out. You will be surprised how well it slowly heals from the edges. You sound very resourceful in designing a bra for her. I hope she is OK.
Louise

When a friends bitch had this when a different bitch had a litter and she came into milk, it had to be left to health naturally.  Most of the gland went black and tissue came away, but ti healed nicely.

My girl had to have a C section and I opted to have her spayed at the same time, as we too had planned to have her spayed after this litter, so that she wouldn't''t need to be opened up twice..

Thanks Louise, Brainless..amazingly when I changed my girls dressing at lunchtime the hole she had on the underside of her teat which was quite big seems to have actually somehow sealed itself. I cannot believe it could have healed so quickly when yesterday it was a big hole? Her other hole too seems to be trying to close up, I am just amazed at dogs healing powers. At this rate if the vet is happy at the progress she  has made in such a short space of time then I think we will just opt to let nature do her work.

With hindsight  I wished we had opted to get our  girl spayed when she had her cesar too, but after no sleep for 2 days and feeling totally stressed and frazzled when we had to take her to the vets as nothing was happeing I just wanted the pups out of her and for her to be home. I do wish that now I had been a bit more with it and asked for them to get that out the way as well. 

Great news, took my girl to the vets this morning and he was really pleased at how much she has healed over the weekend. I find it quite remarkable as even he told me it was going to take a long time if we decided to go down that route rather than having a masectomy. The way it looks right now I think possibly in a week or two's time the holes will be completly sealed. He gave us some more AB's just to bring her up to the end of the week and said that if things continue to look as good as they do now then he doesnt need to see her again! so I am absolutley delighted and never thought a week ago she would have turned  the corner so quickly. Dogs are just amazing creatures as is mother nature.

Thanks everyone

x

I'm so relieved for you.I've been following your story and really felt for you.

Must have been terrifying to see her like that.

Moomins I'm delighted for you.  I have been wondering how you were going to cope with a masectomy so soon after a section.  Ain't life great at times!  :-)

Your girl must be feeling soooo much better, bless her.  Give her a big kiss from me.  ;-)

Many thanks, yes she is doing great, almost out of her bra Lol! the hole is very small now. Probably in about a week or so's time I think she will be fully healed amazing.

Thanks everyone

xx