My girl is a breed which doesn't as a rule go to term. She is now at 63 days from 2nd mating, so we have a vet appointment this morning, where I plan to at least get her scanned to make sure puppies are not too big for natural birth as we are only expecting perhaps 2. She has been digging quite a bit overnight, but no contractions. Should I push for a Caesarian, or keep my fingers crossed that this vet (we've recently moved so I don't know them very well) knows what's best for this breed if they say to wait? Puppies would of course be viable, I could still hear heartbeats last night (haven't tried yet today), so it's really the risk to my girl I would be more worried about. I do have 2 friends who breed my breed who go to this vet, but I'm not sure which of the 3 vets I'll be seeing today. Appointment's in less than 2 hours, as usual I've left it a bit late to ask for advice, sorry!

I would say as long as she's fine and pups are ok I would wait.

Vet says she and pups are ok for now, a head is low down in the right sort of place, but will do a caesar if no pups by Monday morning. Hope it doesn't come to that!

Don't know your breed, but I also have a breed that doesn't usually go full term.

But notorious for inerta.  Fortunately the vet I use now realises that I recognise it, and accepts my plea for an appointment at any time, day or night.

If she has been digging, but no contractions, please be extra vigilant.  I'm not trying to scare you, but I hear of far too many with my breed that leave it too late.

I think you have the same breed as me ? I had always been led to believe that it was not such a good idea to let our breed go over day 63. Mine have always gone a couple days early so I haven't personally been in this situation. Toolz would be a good person to seek advice from.
As it is though, it does sound as though all is well with Mum and pups so I wouldn't worry, perhaps things will kick start sooner than you think anyway. Fingers crossed for a smooth whelping :-).

Yes, same breed. I am a bit worried, but I saw the chief vet that my friend who also breeds this breed has been going to for more than 25 years, and his advice concurred with what she thought we should do, so I will trust him for now. The heartbeat is still strong and no sign of stress, he said the head is in the right position for birth, and my girl is fine in herself. If it comes to the op, I think I've read on here that they (quite rightly!) concentrate on the bitch - is it worth me asking to be present so I can concentrate on getting the puppies breathing strongly? I've heard horror stories of them just left to fend for themselves while the vets and nurses concentrate on the bitch, which as I said is quite right!

Sounds as though all is well at the moment so try not to worry (easier said than done).

Re c-section, I think the scenario you mention is much more likely with large litters, I am sure the vet and nurse should be perfectly capable of taking care of a litter of cavalier neonates and Mum.
Some years back I had a st poodle litter of 12 delivered via c-section due to primary inertia, all 12 were in perfect health, as was Mum, so they certainly managed to care for mum and all the pups, so I guess it depends on the vet.

Sorry Lucy,
Weve had a power cut all day!!
Just read your post.
I know everyone in the breed says dont go over but having had another breed I would say wait a bit if strong heartbeats are being heard.
Easier said than done I know but I'd give her over night if she's an otherwise healthy bitch but I dont know if Id go to Monday morning.
How old is your bitch? If all kicks off and she gets on with it then all to the good .... but if she starts slow and goes on slowly I'd worry that the whelping may stretch on too long and jeapordise the viability of the babies.

I've put a Cavalier avatar up for luck.

Will be rooting for you Lucy!!!

> I've heard horror stories of them just left to fend for themselves while the vets and nurses concentrate on the bitch, which as I said is quite right!

Depends very much on the practise.  Last year when I had to take one of my girls in, due to inertia, I wouldn't stay in the waiting room, and insisited on being in the room next to the operating theatre.

My last words, as the vet nurse disappeared behind the vet was "please take care of my girl, I can cope with losing the pups."

The vet nurse said "I don't intend on losing any puppies!"

They really do try their damndest, and are as pleased as us when both mum and pups are fine.  I think that you will find your vet taking care of the bitch, and it's the nurses job to ensure whelps are fine.

They let me into the theatre after, and showed me 5 pups all sharing the same oxygen mask, they were so tiny.  They all thrived - I think this is the more usual experience in todays veterinary world.  Most vets and their nurses really pull the stops out and fight for both mum and babes.  Fingers crossed for you.  Good Luck.

She's 5 1/2 years and it's her 2nd litter, first was 2 1/2 years ago. She's been digging and panting a fair bit this evening, so I've decamped with teh laptop to watch the tennis next to the whelping box with her. She's been pretty quiet the last hour though, but perhaps things are starting naturally?

If it does come to the op, like you say of course she is my priority and I want her to be the vet's priority. But of course I want the pups too - perhaps I'll just ask if I can wait in the waiting room so if they need an extra hand they can shout (not that I'd be likely to be much use, but....) :-)

I'm keeping everything crossed here.

Hope all is well this morning. xx

Hoping everything is ok Lucy, and that you have a/some beautiful little pups this morning?

No pups yet and she's given up on the nesting and panting too. I think I still hear at least one heartbeat, and she is fine in herself, demanded her usual short walk and her breakfast, and stole my bed and pillow when I got up at 6am! She's now asleep on the sofa next to me. I think it's going to be another long day...

I feel for you bet your exhausted hope all goes well for you and your bitch we were in same boat few wks bk and think weve just recovered .

If as looks increasingly likely, we have to go the surgery route, obviously my girl's welfare is the most important, but do you think it's possible to ask them to make the incision down her belly rather than shaving her side? Vanity I know, but I can't help it! Unless of course that's bad because there would (hopefully) be a puppy or two suckling afterwards.

I thought the incision was always made down the abdomen for a c-section as oppose to on the side ?

To be honest the main thing as you know is that the outcome is a healthy mum and puppies.

I think I would be taking her to see a vet today, not sure I could leave it until tomorrow, which would be day 65 from 2nd mating, if I remember rightly ?

I thought the incision was always made down the abdomen for a c-section as oppose to on the side ?

As cavlover says, whenever one of my bitches had to have a c-section, the incision was always made down the middle, as opposed to the side. I also would be going to the vets today, as now that she has stopped nesting and panting, it could possibly mean that she has Primary Inertia. She  may not of course, but if she has got Inertia, tomorrow may be too late to save the pup/pups.

It is made down the middle and I'm afraid vets don't have much practise on grooming and tend to just shave away the fur, so when they stand up, they have bald sides too!

" now that she has stopped nesting and panting, it could possibly mean that she has Primary Inertia ".

This was my concern too, better to be safe than sorry.

This vet is used to people with show dogs so as long as I ask him I'm sure he can just do the belly, which in any case is pretty short as I did it last week. I can still hear heartbeat(s) and my experienced friend says she should be ok till first thing tomorrow as long as she is keen to eat and ok in herself, which she is. She's been doing a little more digging this morning. Any odd behaviour and she will be straight to the vets though don't worry. Another friend thinks she should have a calcium injection asap but I don't think she's got eclampsia or anything as again she is acting totally normal.

Apparently it might be inertia, so am trying to get hold of some calcium (I did have some with the whelping stuff but it's gone awol in the move!!) None to be had in either of the nearby villages so hubby is near a big town and have told him to bring some home. She is still fine though, not lethargic beyond her usual dozing on the sofa, she's happily wagging her tail and following me around the house.

Calcium does help with contractions.....my vet told me this, so once my girls get going they had 5ml every 3 hours, so when my litter was born over night Friday, 6 pups in just over 6 hours so only had one dose, not sure if it helped, but I'm not complaining it was thankfully a good whelping with no problems.

We gave her one tablet, she didn't quite finish her dinner and I thought I saw a contraction. But now she's gone back to sleep!

I would be at the veterinary hospital by now.

How are things today ? Hope all is well and that mum has safely had her babies.

Hope all is ok and that mum has had her babies .

Lets hope no news is good news and that she's too busy looking after mum/babies

She's having the op this morning, all was quiet last night (apart from me getting smothered because she decided she wanted to lie across my head to steal my pillow). Could still pick up a good strong heartbeat this morning, so fingers crossed in a few hours we will have good news. Losing the pups would be bad enough after planning for 6 years, but losing Ellie doesn't bear thinking about! So strange that we've had all this trouble when she had 2 pups 2.5 years ago without the slightest trouble.

I shall keep checking for updates, everything is crossed here -fingers, paws, tails etc!

Any news? Hope all is well

1 blenheim girl born by c-section, both well. Puppy having a drink while Ellie sleeps off the anaethestic! Too early to tell if puppy worth keeping, hope so as am already desperately in love! Markings quite nice which is all you can say at this stage!

Oh wonderful news Lucy!!!! :) :) :)

Thats great news glad both are doing well .

Congratulations !

Glad she has been born safe. Hope all goes well.

Thanks all!

Looks like my bitch beat you to it Lucy.

Despite not being due until Saturday, my bitch whelped unexpectedly this morning.

Only 4 of the 7 survived.

Mother and babies seem fine.

Oh Toolz it's horrible wehn you lose puppies. I'm sorry. Hope mum and survivors thrive

Thank you, so far - so good.
Difficult weather though, they are very small and need to be very warm..poor mum.

Oh that's a shame tooolz -but glad there were at least some survivors.

Thanks M
Fingers crossed.

So sorry to hear that - but I'm glad for the 4 that made it!

Cheers Lucy.

Best wishes to your little un.