Im a bit mad so indulge me how can a stud dog sire 1000 puppies and not be subject to kc rules and yet we see bitches litters monitored (thanks goodness) surely there should be a similar rule for stud dogs too especially if the are not top dogs or well bred.

It's terrible! It would have a disproportionate effect on the gene pool, I have said on here before that maybe breeders should look at the effects on the gene pool when looking at stud dogs otherwise if they all use the current rave dog, however good the dog is, there will be nowhere to go for the next generation.

John

I agree....what if in later years its found that there is a problem with this dog....think of all the affected progeny. In my breed we had a very prolific stud a few years ago, where out of 12 litters bred in the breed in one year, he was the sire of 8 of them! I thought this was appalling but seemed to be the only one who realised how very short sighted this was!

Hi, what saddens me also is when I look through the Breed Supplement for my breed, that so very few sires are from affixes known to me and so few Champion dogs are used overall - perhaps just 1 or 2 "known" dogs on a whole page of dozens of litters, and a "Backyard Barney" used on just about everything, when there are so many nice dogs available at half the cost of just one puppy. Does this also happen with Labs and Goldens and others that are in in the "top ten" popular breeds?

I agree. We see it sometimes in Cockers - a top dog is used extensively at stud. I guess the difference with a stud dog is that once he's done the act that's it for him. He doesn't have the pregnancy and all that entails to deal with. How would you control a dog not being a good example though. No-one controls bitches in that way either. The only restriction for bitches is for the number of litters and the ages they can be. No one looks at them and says if they should be bred from or not.

I do agree that if you have a stud dog being used so much that if he has a fault it might not show for some time and then the gene-pool could have been damaged.

Not an easy one this - but a good 'un:)

Pam n the boys

It's not just "Bad Specimins" that harm the breed Pam. Just look at how few ACTIVE stud dogs there are in your own breed. I'm betting that the BRS would show that by the time you have eliminated the once in a lifetime stud dogs you would be down to something only just getting into double figures! Now if one dog amongst that total has sired a disproportionate number of puppies the available gene pool has been reduced. If this is then done again in the next generation of puppies the pool narrows even more.

Regards, John

as its not so much a health issue for males-they do the deed !! whereas the bitches carry them-rear them etc, -it would seem obvious why the same rules dont apply-as far as which dog and how many it sires etc, its surely up to the bitch owner who shed like to use !!i agree if they all flock to one male it could be the road to nowhere, but it has to be there choice---dont think a rota would work somehow :D

It's not what the mateing does to the dog that worries me Dizzy, it's more what possible heriditory problems, (Those known about and possibly those which have not manifest themselves to date) which worry me. Not counting the problems done to a breed by over using a dog. I dont take the KC BRS and only get copies which are of particular interest. In one I have before me at the moment, one Labrador breeder has registered ten litters, a total of 77 puppies from 3 stud dogs! I have no reason to believe that this is a once in a lifetime occurance, in fact in another BRS of just over a year earlier the same breeder is registering near the same totals with in some cases the same stud dog!

A problem waiting to happen!

John

i did agree with the risk side of it---but it still has to be the breeders choice, if you thought a certain male would be ideal for you, youd not want to hear, oh hes had his share of bitches now, you'll have to use a little used one,
the breeders should be taking care, but it would be hard to go elsewhere if you felt a male was producing the goods that youd need

The Dutch Kennel Club are trying to impose a Central Breeding policy on the breed clubs in Holland, one of the key measures is a restriction on the numbers of litters a stud dog can sire in his life-time. It's interesting that well-known geneticists like Malcolm Willis & George Padgett are not in favour of these restrictions on stud dogs (or some of the other measures proposed) I haven't read through it all yet, but you can read the reasons for their opposition in the Articles section of this site Food for thought?

Jane

Thank you for the link Jane. Food for thought indeed :-)