Ok so she wasn't exaclty racist but the Pug Judge on Saturday at Southern Counties was just a joke - Out of all the classes only 1 Black Pug was in the final line up and none made it through the judges cut. There were some absolute corkers there as well, I'm so cross about it to be honest. These shows do cost a lot to enter and then there is the petrol etc, this isn't me having sour grapes as my little one probably wouldn't of been placed BUT at least when I go into the ring it's nice thinking that as a complete amatuer I do have some chance!  One very succesful breeders was heard saying as she left the ring "Might have a chance in the next class as I've got a fawn going in!" (and god only knows how much she spent on entry fees for all her blacks) Has anyone else had a class where it's just been a complete waste of time due to the judges colour preference?

Thats just the way it is, if the dogs all meet the standard it comes down to personal preference.

My dog has a super body with an eye catching outline, drives with power & shows beautifully, however he hasn't got the strongest of heads, so when some one judges him, its comes down to their personal preference, some forgive his head & some don't. I certainly wouldn't call the judge a joke if strong headed dogs all won & mine didn't.

There were some absolute corkers there as well, I'm so cross about it to be honest.

If you're new to showing (sorry if that is the wrong assumption, I just assumed so from your remark
"as a complete amateur") -how would you know if those dogs were that good? Especially not having gone over them? There could have been all sorts of reasons for why the judge felt the Fawns were better. Not my breed at all but I do think as a newcomer to showing it is often easy to assume a lot which isn't necessarily true. And if several exhibitors felt the judge was colour prejudiced and did wrong, then you did have the option of paying your fee to make an official complaint.

Hiya - I'm not new to showing although I'm not a professional breeder/exhibitor either - hence the amatuer comment! The black pugs that were there are prolific winners so although I have not gone over them I did find it frustrating that colour seemed to be such a big issue for this particular judge and therefore making it all a bit pointless - I can understand to a point (personal preference) why none of these made her top 5 but to not even make the judges cut?  I know I could complain but to be honest we've just started our first business so I'm spending most of my days running out of time!

Disclaimer - I know nothing about Pugs, so am talking generically here rather than specifically and am definitely not talking about your dog as obviously I have no idea of the individual! LOL

In some breeds where certain colours are very much in the minority, as I believe blacks are in Pugs, quality is also nowhere near as high in the 'specialist colours'. So, to the amateur eye (sorry, not meaning to sound snipey, just using your wording!) it may appear that the colour is being knocked, when it may very well be that the quality is not there.

If you are a newcomer to dog showing, keep at it - some judges are better than others, but it's a very sociable and enjoyable hobby.

M.

In my breed they do come in a variety of colours, some judges will choose certain colours.

If a judge was unkown to me, i would do a little research, have a look at the type/colour they have put up before, some dont mind what colour they are.

Im not making excuses a judge should judge each dog on merit, not because its there favourite colour, however it does pay to be a well informed.

To be honest I wouldn't get too worked up about it there are plently of other shows out there, just dont go under that judge again if you truly believe that the judge had a colour preferance, if its really the case soon very few will enter under them.

We all have our own preferences and I am sure colour is also one of those in certain breeds, I suppose especially with black Pugs as they are such a rarity and not the "norm" at shows.  I wouldn't be annoyed about it in reality and if I owned such a breed I would only go under that judge once and remember that she doesn't prefer the blacks. 

In my breed it's quite funny because they are still quite rare and I often get top dog people come up to  me at the shows and say I didn't know they came in that colour.  Only one black and white is shown regularly at the moment and I bring out my girl later this month so will be interesting if she likes being shown to see how she fares.

It is true that all judges will have a preferences but colour seems to me a bit odd having nothing to do with the dogs soundness or conformation, as long as it is of type and an acceptable colour. My own breed are supposed to be various shades of grey but many judges forget the word various and have very defined favourites, suppose that is normal human nature but when a criticism of a shade of grey appears in the critique you do begin to wonder if they are judging to the standard or if they are looking for something they would like to own.

Do accept that in some breeds the desire for a particular colour, particularly one that is a bit 'rare' may lead to less than careful breeding in order to get the required colour in higher numbers. When Brown Labs became the latest must have there were some horrid examples around and I expect they thought their judges were bias but they did have a point.

Agreed Nova!  Actually, to be very exact, our breed should be grey of various shades with black tips to the outer coat.  Seeing as dogs with black tips are sometimes penalised in favour of those who don't because of someone's personal preference, then you know that some judges are not judging to the standard. :-)

A coat without the black tips (guard hairs) is pretty much a non-functional coat in an elkhound, so it's a serious thing to get wrong in a hunting dog bred to be out in all weather in Scandinavia.

Brown undercoats are a different matter (can't be seen in the dark woods), and dark shadings below the pastern are also a no-no.  Don't see those these days.

Picking up on Nova's thread simply for because her mention of Labs..

My last 5 judging appts.. I have put up yellows.. and at my last appt.. my BOB again, was a yellow.... a friend jokingly (I think) commented and said she knew exactly what I was going to put up.. I asked why.. she said.. well, they were yellows....  which shocked me.. My colour preference in my breed is actually black.. but.. on the day, at each of those shows.. the better quality dogs were yellow.. It may be that at your show, the same applied to the fawns

lets face it some judges are colour blind but no one will admit it .. a couple of years ago I was tapped on the shoulder once by a breeder/ch ship judge (breed specialist) in my breed and was congratulated on getting a res with my girl she actually said 'I would count that as a 1st  as she doesnt usually put up browns' and the judge was also a well known breed specialist when I looked around I noticed all slates and black only a few brown entered .Most people knew not to bother.

I find they tend to put one or two as a res or vhc just to keep everyone happy.. :)

I do my homework more now and look at what the judge's preference  seems to be (if they have judged my breed before ) if they put up a mix of colour, I then look at the breeding as in my breed some people prefer the old type beardie taller with closer coat  ..before I hand my money over, then if I come away with nothing I know the judge just didnt like my girl and I wont enter under them again.

I have found that if certain judges who are  top in thier field (dont want to mention names) tend to go for the faces ...so i usually give them a miss too ...LOL

I have been showing for near 6 yrs, I bred  my girl , she recieved a RCC at 12m and when I do show her she is mostly placed, so I am not being nasty with my comments its just as I see it ,I do still class myself as a novice.

Roni

I don't always notice other breeds but when they are all one colour it catches your eye.  I recall seeing an almost entire entry of darker Golden Retrievers at Malvern earlier in the year.  They looked very striking 'en masse' and it seemed clear that the creams were saving their entry fees!!

Quote Vanhalla = Actually, to be very exact, our breed should be grey of various shades with black tips to the outer coat.  Seeing as dogs with black tips are sometimes penalised in favour of those who don't because of someone's personal preference, then you know that some judges are not judging to the standard. :-)

A coat without the black tips (guard hairs) is pretty much a non-functional coat in an elkhound, so it's a serious thing to get wrong in a hunting dog bred to be out in all weather in Scandinavia.

Too true, did not go into too much detail, did not want to offend anyone or LOL suggest that a dog with a coat fault should not bother entering. Think that the sooty markings must not be above the pastern - better go check the standard - may have changed - how embarrassing. How do you feel about white on the chest to my thinking I can't see it as a very big problem although I know some judges do and almost dismiss the dog because of it.

Would be interesting to know about things in other breeds that judges pick on - I call it fixation judging. Perhaps I should start a new thread.

We have gotten used to our dogs having light coloured legs from the elbow down, but the standard actually says "Any pronounced variation from the grey colour, sooty colour on lower legs, spectacles or white markings undesirable. "

That is what I thought Brainless it is on the lower legs that the odd dark hair can be accepted even if undesirable - think in general, at least with breed specialist judges, you know what they should look like and accept that the hound in front of you looks correct or does not, you do not look at the coat colour in detail you accept the dog as a whole package. Can never understand the counting of teeth either, if the dog has teeth set correctly and enough to do it's job and live a healthy life then to me an odd tooth missing is neither here or there except if you are trying to split dogs of otherwise equal merit..

The generally accepted rule is that any dark shading should not extend below the top of the pastern, i.e should not come down low on the leg.  Many dogs have some shading, usually faint, at the top of the leg, and this is not a fault.  Dark markings on the lower legs are not what I would call acceptable, and neither are spectacles - particularly the latter, as they completely alter the expression.

Many dogs have some white on the chest, but again this is to be avoided, as it is believed to indicate the presence of jamthund blood, as are white markings on the head (most dogs will have some of the Swedish type somewhere in their genetic background).

Edited to say:  Personally, I would not be too bothered about a small amount of white on the chest, particularly if well blended in, but a white bib as is sometimes seen would not be acceptable to me.