I was at County show Corbrige , Northumberland yesterday with one of my Frenchies . And was dissappointed at his placing ( I am biased because he's mine ) but so many people , even the other exhibitors said he should've beaten theirs (now you don't hear that often do you ? )
Anyway it happens and we were having a great day watching all the other classes as well.
What made me feel better was seeing the group judging , and the judge call out " 2nd to the Shitzu " , well I nearly wet myself when the handler kindly explained to her that her dog was indeed a Lhasa Apso !!
It really did make my day. 

Yes, does ring a bell, remember once in a hound group losing to a Sloughi that the judge called out as a Greyhound, now I don't mind losing to a better dog I have done it often but when the judge places a hound above me I assume she feels it a better example of its breed than is mine, this one was a hound specialist as well but one can only think the speciality was very limited. Bit insulting all round if that Sloughi was a better example of a Greyhound than my Elkhound was of an Elkhound I should have given up there and then.

Also shows arrogance as if you are not sure you keep quiet and say "you please madam" one can be forgiven in the case of a match or companion show for not knowing every breed intimately but you do not have to broadcast the fact of your ignorance.

I have to agree with Jackie if your not sure just say yes please madam/sir.

I think the only time I have had my breed called wrongly was at an exemption show (as it was back in the old days) so i suppose she could be forgiven.  I had taken my mum's Gordon Setter into the Sporting class and the steward came over and said "I'm sorry but the judge has said you are in the wrong class, cross-breed is class 5". 

One of my lurchers is an Irish Setter x Greyhound and am always getting asked what breed is she as no one thinks she is a cross breed.  She looks like an Irish Setter but has the coat of a greyhound. So the Smooth Coated Irish Setter has now been invented.

Eek, like you say I've had some clangers at companion shows, but not at an open Group, that's terrible!

LucyDogs, it is even worse than that but I am not going to divulge a name enough to say this person really should have known what they were looking at as they were one of the most prominent hound judges, they were far less than gracious when the error was make obvious when no one moved, there was not a greyhound in the line up fortunately.

At least the two breeds look slightly similiar.  I won't say the name of one of the countries top judges but at LKA he asked my friends brown and white SWD to come out, she was rather confused especially as he kept on asking her to bring out the Bolognese, not even the same group, size, let alone colour.  He also judges highly abroad!!

Don't think there is anything wrong in judging breeds you are unfamiliar with by conformation and movement we all do that but if you are promoting yourself as a group specialist you should not make those sort of mistakes. For the rest of us a smile and yours please seems to be the safest way.

My example was female and also a championship group and BIS judge. Do think that sometimes they get carried away with their own importance and forget they are there to help breeders choose good examples of the breed.

That would be funny, yet rather dissapointing.  Definately wouldnt show under that judge again. 

I have seen mistakes on breed names be called out in sanction and fun matches, where the people judging them are learning about the different breeds to get their judging license.  I have to chuckle about it, especially when the "Doberman" is being called for a group placement in the TOY group.  (Refering to one sanction match judge who called out my b/t min pin I was showing as a doberman)

Here, you will see many a judge actually call out the name of the handler instead of the breed.  I have heard it several times.  It makes you wonder if they are putting up the dog because it is good, or because if so and so took the dog on as a client, it MUST be a good dog. 

My best one was the companion show where the judge asked the chairman if his dog was a Bedlington. Erm.....no, it was a Curly Coat Retriever!!! Still living that one down as I had invited her not realising she ONLY knew our own breed and nothing about any others!

LOL an oversize Bedlington I assume.

Oversize and very dirty! :D

Slightly diverting from the subject.  I was at a limited show and sitting on a chair (as you do). People kept giving me a strange look and in the end Ken Rawlings (lovely man) came over to me and as he approached said what breed is that.  I looked blankly at him and then realised it was my afghan coat (shows you how long ago it was), it was the way I had it sitting on my lap it looked just like a dog.  He realised what it was as he got nearer and we had to laugh.  He got his camera and took a picture and apparently for a few years to come until people got wise to it put it in his guess the dog breed competition.  Quite a few people come over to stroke my "dog" before realising what it was.

Reminds me of my stewarding bag, holds pen, tissues, record book, sweets etc. It also happens to be a small rucksack that looks a fair bit like a tiny PBGV! :-p

Exactly my gripe.I have 2 Canadian Eskimo Dogs,and at my pups first show,'the winner AVNSC goes to the ........Sammoyed!!!!!!!!And it was the working not Pastoral group.At Devon County 3 day Open last week I entered both of them in 2 seperate classes avnsc WORKING .He placed my youngest then when he finished judging open he said to my O.H and Kezzies handler,that was my first ever Canadian Eskimo Dog I have judged.My hubby said actually that was your second as there was one in Post Grad!!!!!!!!What Breed standard did he judge Oggie against?????When I pay pay nearly £30 to get into the show,pay entry fees and catalogue I am dissapointed when the judge doesn't even know what he is judging!!!!!!

yup I have had my Dogue De Bordeaux called a Neo!!!!!!

You can possibly understand judges at companion and fun shows may not know all breeds of dogs, but to enter your dog at an open show and for them to get it wrong is not good..

I went to a companion show at the weekend and they put on the entry forms that sporting dogs were the groups which weren't, this confused me for a while as I worked out what I actually needed to enter. Even when they called out 'Sporting Group' I stayed back until others entered the ring and they still had it wrong.. So there were as the correct 'Non Sporting Group' in a 'Sporting Group' class...:-D

judged a companion show  few weeks back, politely attempted to tell jack russell owner his dog wasn't eligible for the working class,his reply but i do work it!.

JRT's shouldn't be in any pedigree class, they allowed one into the pedigree classes where I was. What shocked me is that it was not like it even could be confused with a Parson's or a Fox as it was a short legged, east/west frontage...

Sal i'm glad you put your foot down, there are normally many fun classes to enter, which would be most suitable..:-)

I went to a exemption back 4 years ago & they allowed a labradoodle to go in the pedigree classes & it was placed!!!!

Exactly cornishmals , when your paying good money to enter these shows you expect judges to know the breeds at least.
My six year old son can tell you almost every breed , so why oh why can a judge who is supposed to be interested in dogs not do a bit of research!
I'm expecting at the minute so there will be a bit of a delay but I am going to do some courses and seminars and see if I can possibly get into the world of judging . I know it will take a few years , but what I do hope is that there are some improvements made to the current system during this time , then maybe we won't keep seeing these mistakes ( maybe refresher courses for breed standards / which are compulsary if you are judging , say utility group etc.) if that makes sense ! ( then there will be no excuses , because the judge will know all of the breeds in that group.) I hope I'm making sense with my babbling , it's just unbelievable some of the stories people have. 

IMO it is the present system that is adding to this problem, it is now very difficult if you are on a Breed C or B list to get appointments and there by improve and increase you knowledge of that breed. There are more and more all round group and all group judges who are happy to take on half a dozen breeds or more at an open show and although they may or may not have passed an assessment their taking that appointment has stopped a breed enthusiast getting the appointment and the chance to get their numbers up. The societies are happy to have judges do a number of breeds because it saves them money, well it does in the short term it may well lose them entries in the long.

Nova couldn't agree with you more.  Sad that over 18 years experience in breeds doesn't get you any judging appointments but someone who hasn't even had one, nor knows much about a breed can judge at a high level.

Believe me Perrodeagua I could write pages on the difficulty of getting a breed specialist judge for two shows a year. The lists the breed clubs put out are getting shorter and shorter of specialist judges and the non specialists either want expenses you can't afford or they want at least a half dozen breeds. My own breed only have 12 specialists on the B list and even less on the C - we use two judges a year so even in the breed I know best I have to keep re-using the same people or use non specialists. Now there are those who are coming onto the breed lists via JDP who are well respected within the group and people are happy to enter under them, sadly there are also those who are not so worthy.

An example of the norm these days, Dog World has sent us the envelopes for our Open Group Shows judges to send their critiques in - we classify 30 breeds, Import Register and have two principal judges, they sent me 5 envelopes so I guess that is what most shows would need. Very sad state of affairs.

I was delighted when my Leo got BPIS...............until the judge said 'beautiful Estrela!'

> The societies are happy to have judges do a number of breeds because it saves them money, well it does in the short term it may well lose them entries in the long.

So true. Entries at open shows in this area (well, in my breed) are so much better when we have a breed specialist judge - probably the difference between half a dozen dogs for an all-rounder to 20+ for a breed judge. Surely just a few more entries at a fiver or so must cover lunch and judges book/rosette, so anything above that is profit for the club?

M.

Quoted Lily Mc - Surely just a few more entries at a fiver or so must cover lunch and judges book/rosette, so anything above that is profit for the club?

Think the main problem is, at least in my group, too few names on the breed club lists, we will always appoint a breed specialist judge if we can but you can't ask someone to drive right across country or down from Scotland when you know there may only be 2 or 3 dogs entered so you find those breeds with small numbers are inclined to get an all rounder that will do several breeds. It is difficult to know how to get round this problem, more difficult for a group show who will classify most if not all the breeds, a general open show can leave the low entry breeds out and just add a AVNSC class.

It has of recent years become very expensive for a breed judge to get enough experience under their belt to progress so it is no wonder some C & B list judges will go for as many breeds as they can get.