I've bred a few litters over the last 30 years, but never had a bitch show no signs at all with whelping.

One of my girls was actually due next Sunday.  A breed that often whelps early, so everything ready.  Her mum actually has a litter of 6 week old pups (not advertising, I was always going to keep this very important litter for myself.)

The line only ever has two pups.  This particular bitch was very difficut for me to tell if she was pregnant, but knew from the size of her ribcage that she was.  They often don't move down until very late.

The only difference yesterday was that she wouldn't eat her fish (where I hide the Panacur.)  I had been sleeping in the same room as this girl, and it woud have been well after midnight last night that I eventually fell asleep.  I woke at 5am to find her cleaning a huge dead puppy.  It was dry, not just born.

I wish now that I had weighed it before burying it.  It was enormous.  Truth to tell, if I hadn't been working for so long on this self whelping line, I would have fully expected a C-section.  Guessing, I imagine it was about 8 ounces.  Cetainly double the size that I would expect.  The sire was a good bit smaller than mum.

But this is the first time ever that I had no noticeable signs that I must stay awake, and be on the alert.  I feel awful that I was snoozing while this happened.  She has been up the garden, she is wagging her tail, and to my surprise, she has run over to get in with her mum and the two pups.  She is sparkly eyed, and if it wasn't for the blood around her rear end, I would never guess that she had just whelped.

Obviously sad about the pup, but my girl is far more important, and I am not sure what to plan for the future.  What would you all do?  She had her first litter 18 months ago, perfectly normal whelping, two pups just like mum, and a good mother herself.  I have no idea why she had such an elephant.  Would you breed from her again?

jean it could be just 1 of those things but so so sorry to hear this :(...if her last litter was fine then i would breed her again and you carnt blame yourself for falling to sleep! like you say there were no signs, did she with her 1st litter? ,im glad your girl is not suffering because of the loss xx

had one bitch that never showed any signs of whelping - just dropped a pup where she stood, but had 9 healthy pups.  Do not think that you can blame yourself, mine I know did not give a sign, had even eaten her supper - I was even talking to the owner of the stud dog on the phone saying that there were not any signs and it would not be tonight, how wrong was that!!

The only one who can answer the question about breeding from her again is yourself, they do not always follow the same pattern with each pregnancy and whelping. If she is fit and healthy then it is worth considerng,  I bred from mine again, she had 3 pups that time, and a longer labour!!!! in fact I knew all about it the second time.  But no problems just a normal whelping.

I find that each time there is always something different, very few are textbook cases.

So sorry to hear your news.  Glad your girl is ok, I wonder she knew she was pregnant for not affecting her or she knows her pup has gone.  i don't really have much experience on that sort of thing.  maybe it didn't give her to complain about and she whelped easily so not disturbing you, I'm sure she would have let you know if she was in any distress so no feeling guilty.

I'd never know from my girls not eating as they frequently do just on a whim.  i would breed from her again as you say she was ok last time and she doesn't appear affected by it.  i maybe wouldn't use the say boy again unless you've used him before with no issues.  it might just be one of those things.

Always difficult to advise - give both her and yourself time to get over this and see how you feel as her next season approaches.  Did you use the same stud as for her last litter?  Perhaps try another in future.  We all know how one whelping is seldom the same as any other, such a shame yours ended so tragically for the pup.  Hope mum will be ok too.

Ellie showed almost no signs last time - ate her breakfast on the morning they were born, one or two contractions at 4.30, 1st puppy popped out at 5.30. Looking back I now realise that her going in and out to go to the toilet more than usual that day was a slight sign things were starting but that was it. As your girl has had a normal litter before I wouldn't worry about mating her again - you are so very experienced that there is no way you are to blame!

Sorry to hear about the pup but glad mum is doing well, sorry no advice about the whelping as i have never bred before :(

So sorry for the puppy you lost but sounds like your bitch is fine. I have heard of bitches (not my own) show no signs at all but have to say I always never think the time is near unless the bitch is showing real signs that labour is coming.

I would breed again as she had a healthy litter last time and seems to have came through this experience ok bless her. As always gets said on this forum..................no two seasons or whelps are the same!!! :-)

Sorry to hear this Jean. Your girl sounds like she has coped with this fine and i am glad she is not distressed by losing her puppy, i had this at christmas and was really worried my girl would fret but she too was fine. She is fit and healthy and will try once more this christmas as she like your girl has whelped a normal healthy litter before so if in 6 months at her next season she is fit and well then i dont see any reason not to try again.

Dont feel guilty, if there was no signs you couldnt know and your girl would of let you know if she was in trouble i am sure so give her lots of love and hopefully next time will be successful for you both. X

I have certainly had a bitch whelp with no warning.

My Jozi 4 days before her due date suddenly jumped up and was trying to get into the kennel whose door I had shut to stop her going in there.

So she ran back into the crate I keep in the kitchen as a bed, and started furiously licking.  I got her upstairs where her whelping quarters were with a puppy being born on our way up. 

Yet she went four hours between each of the first three pups.

She didn't not know what to do with the first pup, in fact was scared of it, but when second arrived it was like a switch was flipped into Mum mode.

Thanks for your comments guys.  The boy I used on this girl always sires small pups, and her mother was mated to him for her first mating.  So not sure I know who caused the elephant! 

Just very surprised that she whelped it herself, and not sure if it is just "one of those things"

I have plenty of time to ponder on whether to let her have a litter to the boy she was mated to for her first litter.  She is still a happy girl, and seems fine in herself.  She has milk, which I will allow to dry up naturally.