I have just returned from my usual woodland walk slightly more stressed than when I left!

About a month ago my 9 year old girl was attacked (bite marks to her neck & ears which drew blood, fur pulled out) the problem is now she is going for other dogs, it starts with a warning growl and if the other dog doesn't back off she then goes in with her teeth. She is OK with dogs she knows and we have lots of walks with different dogs and in different places.

However, what has really annoyed me today is the number of dog walkers who shout 'my dog is fine' when I have her on a lead. I tell them mine isn't and I distract her with treats making sure her focus stays on me. This is OK if the other person has control over their dog but twice she has gotten hold of another dog today (not badly because I have pulled her away) because the owner didn't have any control over their dog who was off the lead.

The questions I want answering are: Will it be me who is in trouble if she does get hold of another dog even though I keep her on a lead and step away to let other people pass and also what should I be doing? Does pulling her away reinforce the attack? What should I be doing when other dogs approach? Interestingly, she is always fine when we approach 2 or 3 dogs together.

Would appreciate any advice you have. Thank you :)

First if your dog is on a lead you are in no way to blame if a dog approaches too close and gets bitten, however you are tense about the situation and that will transfer to your dog and I do wonder if you would both be more relaxed if she wore a soft muzzle for a while. Even if the other party is to blame no one likes to feel they are instrumental in an injury to a dog a muzzle would give you both a chance to regain your confidence around other dogs.

You can understand her getting her say in first. It is difficult when people's dogs rush over, however, I believe that if you've voiced your concerns over your own dog, and the other party is quite happy that their 'dog is fine' then you've no recriminations.
I had a similar situation with one of my girls when she was a 5 month pup, 'cept the dog didn't get chance to get hold. Just stopped to put her lead back on when a big fat lab flew across the park and attacked her, it really was outright agression. Fortunately I was quicker than it and managed to hoik it in the air (that was hard), fell to my knees and ended up sitting on it for a good 10 minutes, much to the young owners surprise and with newspaper headlines racing through my head at the time!!
Anyway, after that incident she was obviously a bit spooked and became very vocal when she saw other dogs. To stop this, took a few months, but worth the work. If I saw other dogs approaching I would put her into a sit right next to me, always keeping myself between her and the other dogs, we'd let the other dogs pass. All the time keeping the lead short but loose. Lots of praise and encouragement if she didn't respond to them.  You'll have to get into a clear mindset before going on your walk otherwise your tension will pass to her and she will react to it.  If a dog insisted on coming up close, I would block it with my body and ask the owner to call it away as I was training.
This was a lesser incident and with a young dog but it's a method that worked for us.

Easy one here. The blame for any problem including any injury or damage is 100% that of the owner of the loose dog.
AMEN
John Bull

Thank you, needed some reassurance after today. Will try her on a muzzle as suggested and keep her on a short lead till we both get our confidence back.

Thanks again John Bull :)

Owners of the loose dog to blame!!! I have a 3 year old bitch who was attacked at 14 weeks of age and has never forgot!! I have done alot of work with the reward if she doesnt react and I can take her anywhere and she will completely ignore other dogs but if a dog comes running over to her then I know she will attack it if it jumps on her!

Every day I get 'my dogs fine' and I have to shout 'yeh well mines not'.

To be honest I dont think they realise that if a loose dog runs at a dog on lead then most of the time the dog on lead tends to be on the defensive.

My bitch did take hold of a GSD that decided to run and jump all over her, she warned it and it didnt stop and then she grabbed it. It took us a while to get her of it and the owner was shouting that I would pay the vet bill but nothing ever came of it and now when i see him he always has his dog on lead!!!

Personally agree with John Bull.  If your dog is on lead it is under your control.  If other dog is loose it is not under owners control.

But, I would enlist help of a professional to deal with her fear/defensive aggression.

I would give careful thought to whether a muzzle is the correct way to go.  I appreciate that this prevents your dog from biting a loose dog who comes in too close but she is already on a lead and unable to flee from any situation she finds uncomfortable.  If she is then muzzled she is further prevented from even defending herself in the event of any attack on her and this may then increase her fearfulness around other dogs

A difficult one.

I have had my dog attacked twice, on two separate occasions when he was ON the lead and the other dogs were off the lead. This situation is reverse than yours as the off lead dogs were aggressive and should have NEVER been allowed off the lead, they went for my dog. The owners knew full well that their dog was not friendly and it baffles me as to why they let them off??? Other people have also had run ins with these people as well

The loose dog is to blame most definitely!

Same here - twice as a youngster my dog was attacked when he was on his lead and other dogs were not. The first time was not so much an attack, more of an excited greeting, but a Rottweiler chasing my small terrier who was crying in fear to get away, wrapping himself around my legs ended up being a nasty, noisy and very frightening time. The other owner was in no hurry to get his dog, was about 50 feet away when it happened and then told me that my dog would have been happier off lead. I explained that he had been, our walk in the field had finished and we were on our way home !. The second time he ended up with slight wound which needed treatment - the other owner paid. The reason given was that the dog ( a very elderly German Shepherd) had poor eyesight and got upset if it could sense another dog walking by it's house. This happened six years ago, and although the other dog has long since passed away, my dog still growls and pulls towards the house if we have to walk nearby. He's never forgotten the experience and went from a delight to walk to being a bundle of nerves which now show's as agression.
Sadly I blame these occasions for the fact that my dog doesn't always cope well if another dog, on or off lead, comes up to him when he is being walked. I'm aware that he can be upset easily and I often make him sit down and I calm him before other dogs approach. He treats many dogs as a threat.
I understand that I might be giving him the wrong signals by doing this but the alternative is sometimes unfair on other dogs who are minding their own business and have to cope with my dog barking at them.
Loose dogs should never be allowed to approach dogs on leads unless the owner gives permission.

I'm going to disagree with the majority opinion I'm afraid. If you know your dog is aggressive and may 'get hold' of another dog it should be muzzled. There will always be people out there whose dogs don't have perfect recall, young dogs, rescue dogs - they don't deserve to get bitten for it.

I own a dog aggressive dog, he's mellowed a lot now but in his younger days he was an absolute horror. I never took the view that it was other dogs fault for coming up to him, I kept him muzzled and only off lead in secure areas to keep everyone safe.

I appreciate it's not your fault your girl was attacked, and you sound like you are doing a great job keeping her attention and working through it.... but meantime don;t let your dog ruin another happy dogs temperament :-)

I agree with tigger 2's comments. A friendly puppy who's having a temporary recall lapse could end up seriously traumatised, and personally even if I had my dog on a lead I would feel dreadful if my dog inflicted any serious injury on another dog, even if their owners don;t have control it their fault not the dogs!

I have a dog aggressive dog that I take out to shows/ public areas sometimes and a muzzle is really useful for helping me relax and keeping other people away. The bigger and scarier looking muzzle the better, possibly a nice spiked collar as in the tom and jerry cartoons and you have a great big keep off sign!
one thing about muzzle types, though the soft ones look nicer and less scary for you I think dogs a more comfortable in a cage muzzle, I have got my WSD a greyhound cage one as they are big enough for him to open his mouth fully to pant and it doesn't rub against the end of his nose like the baskerville ones they sell in petshops.
good luck!

> one thing about muzzle types, though the soft ones look nicer and less scary for you I think dogs a more comfortable in a cage muzzle, I have got my WSD a greyhound cage one as they are big enough for him to open his mouth fully to pant and it doesn't rub against the end of his nose like the baskerville ones they sell in petshops.

I also have a greyhound muzzle for my dog; think I bought it from Countrymun. While it's less of a signal from a distance as it blends in with his colouring, it's a lot deeper and longer than a Baskerville, and much more comfortable. Why do they make the Baskervilles in that horrible 'surgical pink' type colour anyway? Always reminds me of Band Aids! If your dog will fit a greyhound muzzle look into them, as they come in every shade including red, green, pink & purple ;)

> I have got my WSD a greyhound cage one as they are big enough for him to open his mouth fully to pant and it doesn't rub against the end of his nose like the baskerville ones they sell in petshops.

Good point, my boy wears a similar type

also that one has a chin strap as well as the enc strap so not easy for a clever dog to flip off.

I used to have a bitch that was a nightmare scavenger, sometimes making herself ill, but she could get the baskerville muzzle off no trouble.

I hate to say this but a while ago, I'd have agreed that the onus was on the owner of the loose dog.

However, recently in this area, we've had 2 serious dog attacks (both by bigger dogs, on smaller dogs who were loose if I recall corrrectly) and the owner of the dog on lead, the bigger dog, was in both instances charged under  the DDA. I was quite surprised as I didn't realise this was possible (because of the attacking dog being on lead, which is usually counted as under control...)

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8121431.Yorkshire_terrier_mauled_to_death_on_Southbourne_beach/?action=complain&cid=8473932

"... the terrier had been running along the promenade ...when the mastiff attacked it.
The terrier's owner...had been jogging, while her son roller-skated alongside her, said witnesses.
But when the attack began, she and her son were joined by up to 15 bystanders in trying to save the tiny dog from the mastiff, which witnesses said was held on a lead throughout the attack.

...A Dorset Police spokesman said a 39-year-old man and a 19-year-old woman were arrested at the scene under the Dangerous Dogs Act, and later released on police bail while enquiries continue.

The mastiff is being held in non-police kennels while officers were studying CCTV footage of the attack as part of their investigation, he added."

It looked sadly as if the Yorkshire terrier maybe ran too close to the mastiff (i.e. it was that dog that was not under control :( ).

So whereas before, I'd have said as everyone else, that the dog on lead is counted as under control, now to be honest I'm not so sure any more.
I would agree with getting some good behavioural and training advice (make sure you use someone reputable - APBC or APDT) and teach your dog to "hide behind" you and other tricks which can really help to keep things calm....

Lindsay
x

Can someone give a link to where a wire muzzle can be purchased as I agree they are better than the sort usually seen that on my breed are useless as they are unsuited to the wedge shape head.

Don't know why but the use of a muzzle even a Halti or Leader seems to give confidence to a nervous biter as well as its owner.

My Dobe wears the 2nd one down (http://greyhoundproducts.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=9&departmentid=32)

good point, if you know your dog is definitely aggressive and will go for any dog that does approach, then a muzzle would be a must. It may also lower the tension of the handler just because there is the reassurance that the dog(s) wont get hurt. Hopefully decreasing the dogs excitement and lower incidence of attacks.

I was coming from the point of view where my placid boy was attacked from off lead aggressors, not curious young dogs but dogs seeking attacks. In which case they should not have been off the lead. I even had the cheeky guy to comment, 'he doesnt like other dogs'!!!!!! WHY DO YOU LET HIM OFF THE LEAD THEN!!!!!!!! Stupid people

Yep! goes along with your dog must have upset him, he does not often do that.

I have in the past used a muzzle but she was attacked by a rottie and a staffie off lead and couldnt defend herself. She ended up with terrible pucture wounds and also a lot worse with her aggression!! I now take her where I know there is no other dogs as I cant trust these silly owners.

Even the nicest natured dog can react to an unknown dog jumping all over them. I must say I think it works both ways.....muzzle an aggressive dog and dont let a dog off lead if it doesnt recall!!!!

Hi Fallenangel
I can't give legal advice but agree with others tha ta dog on lead should be under control and if it attacks another dog even if on lead it is then not under control - I think it would be different if the approaching dog attacked first though.

Many years ago I had a young dog attacked in a park [both were off lead] and mine was severely traumatised by this.  Fortunately, in some ways, he was a puppy so I took him to puppy classes where he could interact with others in a safe environment.  Maybe you could find some class or one or two other calm confident dogs for yours to get used too and build up confidence?  This could help both your dog and yourself.

IMO very sensible advice daniell-k9
One of my girls loves to 'talk' to other dogs but doesn't like being jumped all over.  And, yes, it should work both ways.

i feel for you!how many times have i heard"my dogs ok!"maybe,but mine isnt, and please keep your dog off mine,shes scared,agressive,shy,just go away!id love for all dogs to get on and play and have a good time,but sometimes it just wont happen!

agree!

I would agree 99% of the time - but a couple of years ago my dog was annoyed by a loose, friendly but over the top Staffie, his owner had another Staffie on lead but had no control over the loose one. My dog was being remarkably tolerant of being jumped all over but was clearly annoyed, so the owner had to come to get his dog which was ignoring his calls. This was the on lead Staffie in range of Henry, and this on lead dog then attacked Henry, got hold of him and drew blood. I would blame the owner of the on lead dog in this case, personally!

>>Easy one here. The blame for any problem including any injury or damage is 100% that of the owner of the loose dog.

>>AMEN
>>John Bull

Just like to say in all my many years I have never come across a situation where I would say anything was 100% the world is not like that, there are always extenuating circumstances and every case of anything has to be judged as single and one off incident.

When it comes to dogs it is the owners responsibility to take the utmost precautions to make sure their charge does not injure or damage another person or their property, if you can't control your dog then keep it on a leash if your dog will bite an approaching dog or person then use a muzzle. I would go so far as saying if your dog is such a pain when being walked and you have the room then do your exercising in the garden, once you have done everything you can to socialise and train your dog and you feel you have been unsuccessful, then it is likely the dog will be happier not to face the trauma of being walked twice a day.

Thanks for all your replies, I have been doing more street walking where we can pass dogs that are on leads and I feel much calmer. We have also been walking with the dogs that we both know. I have ordered a muzzle online so waiting for that to arrive, in the mean time I being very careful!

Thanks again, heres to some calm dog walks :)