Hi
Please can someone experienced help me out. We are getting a British bulldog cross boxer pup and have visited the home seen both parents etc. However the woman that has bred them has contacted me to ask if we can take the dog early. This is because the mother has become aggressive towards the litter and upon advice of the vet she has separated the mother from the litter. Out of 7 pips ours and one other are the only ones left together and the other pup will be leaving at weekend they have been weaned had first injection and been wormed. I just need to know if at 5 weeks leaving the litter could this affect the dog long term. I have had dogs before we lost our staff to illness 2 years ago. We had him from 6 weeks

There is another similar thread running on here.  My opinion - the people who bred these pups didn' realise what hard working raising a litter is, they just want to get rid of them as soon as the hard work starts and pass it over to you!!
Even if mum has to be separated, that's fine but pups should remain in the same environment with the same food/people etc until they are 7 weeks old at least.
A lot of bitches start to leave their pups for longer periods once weaning has started - thats when the breeders work really begins, feeding at least 4 times a day and cleaning up from the other ends about twice that!!!
It's not a pleasant situation you find yourself in and I'm not sure what I would do - others on here may have more experience/advice to help you.

Thanks for what help you can give. I just don't know what to do at all I know pup is fully weaned and completely off mum just don't like idea of her being left all alone when she could be with her new family here. This girl not a proper breeder she a friend of a friend and not sure how experienced she is. Might seem bad of us to get pup off her but rather we rescue one than see them in kennels or sold to scum. Any advice is taken and respected once again thanks

To be very honest, I would walk away, and buy a pup from someone responsible who health tests appropriately, whether it's a pedigree or a cross breed, although it's harder to find *ethical* cross breeders than it is those of pedigrees.  If breeders like this were forced to rehome pups via rescue because they couldn't sell them, then they would think twice before breeding at all. 

This isn't a personal criticism of the person at all, just that a lot of people think it's ok to just have a litter, when the rescues are overflowing and one dog is put to sleep every single hour, it's something that really should be left to people who know what they're doing. 

I don't let pups go till they are 8 weeks. I think it's far too early to be letting these poor babies go. Pups learn a lot from Mum & also from being together in the litter. Obviously not from mum in this case, but I don't think the litter should be split up. :( I've never heard of pups having 1st injection that young either.

I am not paying for the pup I am taking it because of the area they are in I know its only one dog but one less status symbol or fighting dog has got to help. I really just need to know the long term effects on the pup I don't want to get into a moral debate as I am not a breeder or even a breed enthusiast just a Mis guided animal lover x

I know the injectin part worries me too as to whether or not these dogs have even seen a vet. The house and area for pips has always been clean and they don't seem cruel just clueless I suppose but then so am I which is why I'm here

As many have advised on this, 5 weeks is far too early for a puppy to leave its nest, and I would walk away and find a responsible breeder, or rescue centre. I know it can be very difficult to 'walk away' from the purchase of this puppy, but IMO, this breeder is not responsible at all in letting the pups go so early :(
In the past when I have had pups, yes, the mum dog can get 'cross' with her offspring at around 5 weeks old, they have teeth so mum is reluctant to feed them, so they should be well on their way to being weaned, BUT the importance of keeping a litter until are at least 7 - 12 weeks old is so important for their development.
Young pups learn how to play in with their littermates, explore together, learning instincts, taking a puppy away so young would certainly be wrong.

Get in touch with the breed club you are interested in, they should be able to point you in the right direction of a good responsible breeder :)

at 5weeks its very sad BUT this pup will be fine with you has long as you make sure it eats well and drinks well ,take it to vets every 2 weeks for worming and jabs are givin between 7-8 weeks for the 1st and 10 weeks for the second. you may need to read up on singleton pups and play with pup like mum would (dont let pup get away with biting and geting its own way all the time) get it around other pups and dogs as soon as possible and carry pup everywhere you go outside so its use to everything , in this situation id take pup at least you know its being cared for the right way! good luck with your new baby x

I'm sorry for confusion but I am not buying pup the nest will be empty by weekend and my pup will be alone therfore learning nothing when she can have 24 hour care. I need advice on whether the dog will be affected long term and how I help the pup there is no question of walking away

White lilly
Thank you so much for the helpful advice could you recommend any books or websites to read up x

i think im right in thinking its a girl pup your having ? if so the book of the bitch is great it goes though everything you need to know about rasing a bitch and also breeding so theres stuff in there that will help you with her being only 5 weeks old also if you surch on here reguarding singelton pups alot of stuff will come up , you will need to know what shes been feed pups ? and if its not puppy food you will need to get her on a good food right away!

Thanks so much for the advice and for being so non-judgemental will start researching now x

What you may end up with is dog-dog relationship problems ... the pup is at the age where you would expect Mum and sibblings to teach the dog language. If you're determined to get the pup then that's what you need to work on to avoid problems later on. If you've had dogs before then you'll probably have a network of dog owner friends/walkers so you need to get some people and their dogs lined up for very early socialisation.  They need to be steady dogs that you know will be ok with a youngster, they will then be the ones to teach the dog language - you can't do that. Obviously make sure that the dogs you are going to use are vaccinated and healthy!

I'm sorry, you asked for any any advice, and I did state that it wasn't in any way a personal criticism of the person that has bred these pups in my reply, your post didn't state whether you were buying the pup or not, I based my reply on the assumption you would be buying the pup.  Sadly, a lot of people would produce a cross breed like this just to try and make a bit of cash. 

Others have already given good advice, I'd just add to definitely start socialisation as soon as possible, and as you've already guessed, there probably isn't much point I would have thought, leaving the pup once all it's siblings have gone to new homes, when you can probably provide better care.  You can take your pup out after it's had it's first jab, as long as you don't put it down where other dogs may have been, sitting at bus stops and just watching the world go by is great.  Find someone with vaccinated dogs that are well natured enough to mix with your pup and help socialise it as well. 

I'd also point this friend of a friend towards the pdsa or similar to get their bitch spayed, if it happens again, they may not be so lucky, ie healthy pups and mum, again, not a criticism, just that people don't expect these things to go wrong, and unfortunately they can do :o(

Thanks. Yes we lost our beloved staffie 2 years ago and know many people with good healthy dogs to socialise with. How soon should they be introduced? This was not a planned venture suppose its turned into some sort of rescue mission whether that's good or bad. I have only ever had pups from 6 to 8 weeks our staff was 6 and was fine with all dogs except male staffs. I don't mean to offend and had we been actively looking for a pup would have used a reputable breeder as suggested but these people are on a council estate and majority of dogs going to bits of kids who want a cheap bully look a like. We just want to give this pup the best life posible and keep it away from idiots

Thank you for all advice and am sorry I did not make myself clear in the first. I appreciate all the help and constructive advice I have received. She has been reported to the RSPCA for other problems but as mother and pups in good health they have left them. I think these people are out of order and should leave breeding to people who know what they are doing. I just don't see point in leaving pup alone to be taken anyway by someone who cannot give it the life I can

If your pup's had it's first jab then you can socialise with vaccinated dogs as soon as you get them home and settled.  I'm helping socialise a Lab pup in a few weeks time with my two girls, and very much looking forward to it!

Once you've got your pup home, give them a couple of days to settle before going to the vet with them for a check over, if they've been vaccinated, you should be given details of what vaccination they've had when you pick your pup up, and your vet will make an appointment for any follow up jabs you need, some courses are two jabs, some three.  You will be given flea treatment and worming treatment from your vet, give the pup a few days between vets, flea and worming, so that it's system isn't hit all at once, they may be a little out of sorts anyway getting used to a new home and pups often get the runs from the stress of having everything hit their system at the same time. 

Good luck, sounds like you're doing this little pup a favour, I just hope the bitch is spayed so there aren't any more in the future, otherwise you could end up with a houseful!

Hi, l tend to agree with white lilly here. My 1st gut reaction was, that at 5 weeks, it was far too early to be  separated from it's family members, BUT, in this poor little mites case, l think that it is probably the best decision. Come the weekend, it will not be with other puppies, or its mother anyhow. It will not be too different to having a singleton pup when you are trying to wean it. Becky seems to be a very responsible potential puppy owner, and l am sure that if she follows white lilly's advise, she will not go far wrong. One thing tho', dont let it mix with other dogs/puppies, until it has finished its full course of injections. I must confess Becky, that 5 weeks seems to be a bit young for its 1st injection, nevertheless, there will be a certificate from the vet if this is the case. I do not think that there will be any long term effects with you having it so young, just make sure that you do not let it get away with being too pushy, remember, YOU are the TOP DOG. Good luck. Josie 

Thanks to everyone for all the advice given it is much appreciated I will definitely be askin for more in the next few weeks x

What vet would vaccinate so early on?  THought that they were useless at that age???

I was wondering that our vet wont vacc that early, id want to see proof of these vacc's i.e. vet's vaccination card

I agree, walk away, (I would say run very fast) one of the cross is a breed that with it's conformation needs to be bred by the most responsible people otherwise it can suffer a raft of health issues.

Very few in UK are Hip scored, but in the USA they are the worst breed for Hip dysplasia.

Heart issues are also quite common, along with the issues related to the conformation of the Head.

Boxers too are heart tested by responsible breeders as bad hearts are a common problem.

The only way to stop such irresponsible breeding is to make it hard or impossible for the breeders to sell their puppies by the buyers being educated and insistent on well bred pups.

Buying a puppy like this allows the breeder to profit by their irresponsibility, and can end up with you and the pup suffering heartache, and your wallet being very light for years to come with avoidable veterinary expenses.

If they cannot sell the pups they will have to be homed through a rescue,a  much better place to give your money to.

'One thing tho', dont let it mix with other dogs/puppies, until it has finished its full course of injections. I must confess Becky, that 5 weeks seems to be a bit young for its 1st injection, nevertheless, there will be a certificate from the vet if this is the case. I do not think that there will be any long term effects with you having it so young, just make sure that you do not let it get away with being too pushy, remember, YOU are the TOP DOG. Good luck. Josie '

I disagree (in the nicest possible way) with your advice not to socialise.  For a pup that hasn't had the benefit of socialisation with it's mother/siblings properly, it is vital to let it get used to other dogs (particularly with this type of cross), and as long as they are vaccinated, and the pup's had it's first vaccination, it is fine to allow them together, on ground that isn't frequented by dogs that are possibly unvaccinated, so probably back garden of pup owner, or other dogs is best.  Also, the top dog thing??  I don't subscribe to dominance type theories, I know some do, all I want is a well behaved dog, not one that thinks I'm a "pack leader", I want one that looks to me just because I'm in charge no questions asked, if that makes sense??  I'm interested to see it crop up on here......

Also, forgot to mention, definitely get yourself some insurance, as pointed out above by Brainless, these two breeds have a number of health problems. 

>What vet would vaccinate so early on?  THought that they were useless at that age???

They can have an early parvo vaccine at that age, but will still need the DHPL/L at 8 and 10 weeks on top of that.

When I posted I hadn't read that you were getting pup for free, but even so you may be faced with a lot of health issues so Insurance, and that which has proper life cover will be essential, and that which re-instates the sum insured every year. 

Even so any problem considered congenital (present from birth) may be excluded.

Re the vaccinations, I really don't believe they have been done, unless it is simply an early Parvo jab (if parvo has been an issue in their area).  to be honest vaccinating this early will usually be negated by the bitches antibodies, which is why pups get a course of two vaccinations anyway in case the first doesn't take.

Chances are you will need to start them again at 8 and 10 or 8 - 9 and 12 weeks, depending on vaccination manufacturers protocols.

Hi Becky, you need to start the socialisation IMMEDIATELY, this is a critical stage in dog-dog language development. Make sure the dogs are vaccinated and healthy, I'm not proposing socialising with just any one you happen to meet, but if you wait until jabs then you've waited too long. If possible, good socialising with someone's dog that's a bit 'mothering'.  It just goes that step towards ensuring no issues later in life.  Hope all goes well.

I disagree (in the nicest possible way) with your advice not to socialise.  For a pup that hasn't had the benefit of socialisation with it's mother/siblings properly, it is vital to let it get used to other dogs (particularly with this type of cross), and as long as they are vaccinated, and the pup's had it's first vaccination, it is fine to allow them together, on ground that isn't frequented by dogs that are possibly unvaccinated, so probably back garden of pup owner, or other dogs is best.

On that point, l stand to be corrected SleepingLion, l had always assumed that if dogs had been walked/exercised in a public place, they could be  carriers of germs/infections, thus able to pass it on, without being ill themselves.

Also, the top dog thing??  I don't subscribe to dominance type theories, I know some do, all I want is a well behaved dog, not one that thinks I'm a "pack leader", I want one that looks to me just because I'm in charge no questions asked, if that makes sense??  I'm interested to see it crop up on here......

But, on your top dog theory,  l thought that it was universally accepted that dogs are happier and better behaved when they know the pecking order in the family.

'But, on your top dog theory,  l thought that it was universally accepted that dogs are happier and better behaved when they know the pecking order in the family.'

It's a really difficult one to describe, I don't subscribe to all the Cesar Milan type of stuff, where we are *pack leaders*.  From experience, although I will happy admit my own isn't extensive, but listening to others far more experienced and watching dogs interact, there isn't a set order, the dynamics between dogs shift, particularly for those with quite a few, and also depending on the situation.  I had an old rescue, part collie, who was a bit of a bu$$a for guarding if she got the chance, to stop her from doing this, she was never allowed up on the furniture, her hips were bad in any case, and I would also move her bed, so there wasn't anything static to guard - not while she was on it I might add.  I had to make a greater effort with her, than with my own two I've had since pups, to ensure she knew what was acceptable behaviour, and on the very odd occasion she felt she was forced into a behaviour, she was just calmly removed from the situation.  There was no alpha rolling or enforcing her to behave in a particular way.  I don't think it makes a jot of difference whether you allow them through doors first, or last - although it can be a safety issue, if you're letting them through an opening where you can't see what's the other side, eg gate opening out onto the street.  What I do want is a dog that does as it's told, so try to be as consistent as possible, giving commands they know and should heed, and chasing them up if they don't react as I expect them too.  Hope that makes sense?

Re the dogs possibly carrying other diseases, if you think about it, the same possibility exists for cats and birds to carry any nasties back, in fact garden birds are known to carry myxi, one of the reasons pet bunnies inexplicably come down with the disease without coming into contact with any other bunnies. 

Apols for going OT, but interesting stuff, to me anyway (perhaps I should get out more.......)

If you are intent on homing this puppy then how about really helping the situation by paying for the mother to be spayed? You could offer to pay for this (direct to vets of course) in exchange for the puppy?