on the Polish Belgians forum link noted today...in HORROR...any views...is this article available in other than my google translation elsewhere ?
[url=]
http://www.sfora.pl/Po-tym-jedzeniu-zwierzeta-choruja-i-umieraja-a18855[/url]

Dry food that we feed most tetrapods shortens their life to them
    and wpędza of serious diseases
    - Lippert says Gerard, a Belgian veterinarian.

His study of 600 dogs showed that animals fed with dry food live on average three years less than those who consumed "homemade food". Also often suffer from allergies, obesity, and have problems with digestion

    Animals used to eat the same things our ancestors. Dry food does not have the necessary ingredients to animals. To produce them very often used as crops genetically modified - said Lippert.

YES understood your dog>>

Animal feeding natural food encourages more and more specialists.

    Their diet
    must consist of raw meat, bones, fat and vegetables - experts
    the Biologically Appropriate Raw Food.

According to veterinarians currently only about 5 percent. owners prepare their own meals for their pets.

As dogs are living longer than ever and the majority get complete feed, and often not the best quality, I rather think that article is opinion and flawed.

In the UK ingredients in dog food has to be fit for human consumption.  the differences in quality of ingredients and price is vast and such a judgement is almost impossible to make.

I suggest you start a new topic under feeding to discuss, many of us choose not to get involved as it can be quite a personal decision, and there are strong feelings one way or another.

Certainly for a person who knows Little about nutrition a puppy especially is far better fed a good quality complete food than an unbalanced home prepared diet, you only need to look at how badly some people feed themselves.

exactly...like ME ! i take loads of vitamins due to my aversion to cook ! am not THAT French for that ! LOL !...this is not the nutritian thread ? will have a look. need to calm down first...this horrified me. i fee ROYAL CANIN in France dry food which everyone here says is the best has it all for puppies. those in the countryside are into cooking noodles rice etc which i have not time or interest in myself as an activity and ONIONS they have in the left overs are not good for dogs i have read too so poison. my pup had the runs after 2 days of HOMEMADE food last weekend for a day ! enough of that smell i say too !

oops silly me yes this is the right thread and place.

i am going to follow this up...with BELGIANS if i can find any ! and the Polaks...surely...it depends WHAT DRY FOOD they used to evaluate ? ! this is NOT good news ! i LIKE dry food ! less SMELL in the house, easy to give, has ALL the nutritian needed allegedly ! vet says it, breeders too...and so ? now we get ANOTHER DEBUNK or NEW FAD????

the ONLY NEW FAD i am interested in actually that i have not mentioned here but in France...where i got SHOT DOWN of course, big meat eaters, is i read USA websites are into VEGETARIAN dogfood...studies said dogs lived longer, had less cancer...which red meat gives humans so logical for dogs too. i am interested in THAT idea...BUT I AM NOT COOKING ! schhh...calm Down Noelle...talking to myself...am in hyper French overexcited reaction mode...must take a cold shower...

My little doggy is a tetrapod???  Sounds like an alien...

If you listened to all of the opinions out there, we'd be feeding them nothing at all!

lol...bad translation of DOG !!! LOL !! and you are right. one hears contradictory advice everywhere when one is not even asking for it sometimes is my complaint. here i ASK...and get things i find useful and make more sense than what i get TOLD by strangers wanting to give me opinions !!! LOL ! i really think those giving advice unasked for should get dogs of their own or show what they mean by example...the most irritating man was one telling me he wanted and did pick up my pup in a bar whre we were minding our own business saying HE had 2 dogs and was a good dog person...sigh sigh...pup did not WANT to be picked up by him...was ok...but he HELD HER MOUTH SHUT TIGHT Even !!! i was not pleased...i do not do that...she was only licking him ! should not have PICKED HER UP AS AI ASKED HIM NOT TO ! she was quite happy under my chair and playing with a little girl ! sigh...Frenchman of course...needless to mention ...never take advice from women...not excusing my stereotype made here...i say it to their faces too ! LOL !

of course my thoughts were...WHERE ARE YOUR 2 dogs then to play with ? not able to bring them to a bar so badly behaved hey ??? but i did restrain myself...i do sometimes !! LOL !!!

http://www.obcarskas.eu/resources/DSCN6887.JPG

Dont panic black fairy if one decided to go "natural" either raw or barf the meat is fed raw therefore no smell or fiddling about. I find it almost as easy as feeding complete one big but being the need for good large freezer space then I have found it to be cheaper that complete. It some how feels right for the dogs and mine certainly thrive on it. Certainly easeir than feeding my fussy family at least the dogs are at home for their dinners more than can be said for my two teenagers  !!! oh to be able to hand them a lump of raw tripe and a chicken carcass  This view from the belgian is one I have heard for some time now and is one of the reasons I decided to go raw Yes his particular reseach may be flawed and much more may need to be done I guess it also depends on the quality of complete food that you feed and that may also vary from country to country. meanwhile I believe the subject will remain a "hot potato " with many strong views. 
Now the idea of feeding dogs a vegetarian diet does worry me dogs are carnivores the may eat a little fruit and veg here and there but not entirely veggie

i am FED UP with my pup's aversion still to DRY TREATS even. she is REFUSING dry foods that being Royal Canin brand here is supposed to be the best. WELL fed up with it. She is NOT putting on weight as she should either. of course no local butchers...sigh...only supermarkets i can't go in with dog around here...sigh...well fed up with this. Bone marrow in BONES at local bars i think is good for her...maybe i shall start scavenging and doing deals for those here...sigh...I NEED FULL NUTRITION that this BELGIAN pup is so difficult about eating will eat regularly ! sigh sigh.

Do you have any pet food companies that deliver to you so you could get some raw meat and try her on that if supermarket human meat is too expensive. I can understand that you cant take her in the shops with you and unfortunately I dont have any friendly butchers around me either where I acn get meat from that I can afford.
If not can you get   a few chicken wings to try her on alonside her canin. many people do a mix of dried and raw.
If you really want to stay on dried and feel you are getting nowhere with canin what else is available ? how abou burns or jwb are they availale both considered good. What is the breedrers advice?

am going to research this wet food internet option or locally even at the restaurants...juices...all including myself would LIKE her to eat the full of nutritian elements of the dry food. sigh. not giving her ANYTHING to eat BUT that is one option...all this grated cheese on top just whets her appetite for something else she knows is available of course...SMELLS it on my plate and elsewhere when out ! not daft ! all this dry food ? just does not TURN HER ON ! sigh.

Noelle, have you tried adding any of the following to her 'croquettes':
Some water (not soaking them) just before feeding her? better if slightly warm, perhaps from the kettle.
A little bit of oil or fish from a can of sardines?
A blob of natural yogurt?
Some of your own food left-overs (no onions, raisins or grapes)?
A little bit of wet food mixed in? (a suitable canned food or the kind sold in a pouch or tray).
It's not unusual for young Belgians and some other very active breeds to be difficult with food when young - I found the above helped a lot with mine.
PS: I also found raw chicken wings given as breakfast did help too.

Yep all or any of what you suggest may help her get the hang of eating what Noelle wants her too

the warm water moist worked 2 days...same with grated cheese...same with yoghurt...she ignores all yogurt now i add...

the fish sardines oil is the next attempt i want to try for sure...these croquettes have all the nutritian she needs...just now...turned her nose up at a single one i tried to present in my hand...she often takes anything from my hand...no go...

i need to get INTO a shop tomorrow...the issue really is i cannot leave her !! LOL !!! and should have ORDERED over internet...may come to that tomorrow ...just tried leaving her with my friend who is cooking chicken for ME !!! she will eat that of course...but she started the hectic barks  within a minute of me going out of the door...will not stay alone with him. yes ok...separation issue...she is 3 months old...there is time yet. i want her confidence still before i go to those trials for her. and i am ALWAYS with her...SHE is the reason i need to go to the shops ! apart from WASHING POWDER !! LOL !! i get all MY eggs milk fruit i need from a grocer...fresh heure...he comes out to SERVE me and the farm gives me milk...so i am fine for food ! LOL !!!

i am amazed...dogs..pups are supposed to be greedy ! not this one ! my other dogs years ago i don;t recall any such a moment of such an issue !

i rang the breeder/trainer about tit bit treats for training tomorrow...said look she is not going to react to them...sigh...they understand...she will do the things there without the treats i said...she is curious...excited...copies...watches...leave this treat thing out of it for her i said...

she went through sevearl times the bottle things...walked on lead...no treats needed to encourage her ! the other pups all were into coaxing shoving and pushing them through mostly ! and treats at the end ! give me strength...is this MEALTIME or EXERCISE TIME this training ?

she DASHED through tthe rattling bottle things and the wire snake tunnel several times on her own ! just following other dogs ! or by herself ! give me STRENGTH what is this about ? if the dog LIKES the noise and fun it will do it !

it is the DRY FOOD issue i think the prob. i thought this mornigna bout that post and comment of my other dogs...they in those years did not eat dry food ! it was pedigree chum then wet tinned food ! is that still around ? well even the TREATS the vet sold me for training to comply pup turned her nose up after the first one ! not even when a bit bored inactive at the bar does she want to chew them !

so ? dry food must be TASTELESS ! need fish oils on it or SOMETHING to encourage a dog to eat !

in the countrysie of course of France the dogs eat all leftovers of humans i add. noodles. rice all sorts vegetables eeven of course. those of familly i went to with dogs the other weekend can't understand my problem...pup ate from their dogs bowls when tehre fine i addd ! sigh. well i don't really want too COOK for her ! that was THEIR idea ! they don't believe in all this croquette stuff...think like dog hairdressers that is daft for dogs. sigh. well they don't believe in vaccinations either. so not taking much notice of them i add.

sigh. what they worry or lose their dogs over are snake bites  i add. they reckon sometimes a viper bites in the fields. now THAT is interesting...i was asking for vaccins for taht...in Australia they ahve them....ooh ! i forgot to ask vet for SNAKES !

It is quite normal for some pups to not wants treats and to be picky. However if you make an issue of it it may become a bigger problem in the future. A healthy dog is not going to starve itself, she will eat when she is hungry.

very topical...just back from vet who said the same...STARVE her and STOP her clever knows food evenings is cooking so can have some behaviour she is spoilt by...if i want her to eat dry foods ? pour some sardine oil..just done...ignored them...sigh...cheese also lasted 2 days of trick...so ? i eat the other sardines or the kitten...sigh...i am creating a rod to beat my own back with ...she weights today 8.8 kilos...has put on weight fast the past week ! good ! not plump...turned nose up at Leclerc cooked chicken the other night ! as did kitten ! says it all ! TASTELESS BATTERY FARMED stuff no doubt i complained to my friend...don't put THAT on MY plate again either thx ! LOL !

How long do you keep the food down?

well yes, anticipating you will say what vet said. i leave it down too long in their view. she is not a morning type. so ? eats nothing first few hours of day. so ? i put the food down for a few hours then. i remove it a few hours then put it down there again trying to encourage her to eat. today ? she ate a handful with some sardines and olive oil mixed in...then ? ignored it. sigh. this was the FIRST attempt with sardines i add...i tried grated cheese...mixed patee...she took the bait the first time or 2 then ignored it ! sigh !

she went thru a stage of eating the dry food out of my hand...wetted...then ? that was ignored. sigh.

now i explained this to the vet. who said it could take 4 days of no eating before she was hungry enough to accept this food and i would have to be hard and give her nothing. she , the female vet last spoken to, understood i found that stressful...could do it to an adult dog easier. sigh.

the pup likes wet food ! ate a tin of dog food i got...well tired of that also before the entire tin was eaten.

what she WANTS ? is what I EAT ! she WATCHES for that ! even if she does not like it ! tonight ? it was a GARLIC piece ! seriously ! she would not let it go ! took it off my finished plate of what i had eaten she had watched and chewed it !

i can see what her GAME is so to speak...but hey...she WATCHED and was not taken in by me pretending to like her dry croquettes a few times ! lol !

now my relatives in the country can't understand why i don't want to COOK stuff for her...sigh...they do that for their dogs.

spanish water dogs ! monty pic is what the pic on wikipedia is like ! the full monty hey ! nice white chest...now i was trying to find out if the hair is like a poodle...not falling out ...did not see that comment...

in fact...daring to make a comment on websites generally...the description and history of the breed is often missing on people's personal sites...so ? one looks at the dogs, and wonders !!! what are they like ? nature ? history ? lol...i ended up putting a LINK to wikikpedia on mine...saved me the trouble of trying to make up a description...my brief one does not please the French...why ? i MENTION POSSIBLE GENETIC illnesses the breed is succeptible to !!! LOL !! not a DONE thing here in France that generally ! one has to say...NO PROBLEM ! LOL !!! excuse my humour...and digression !

am just in from a brief encounter with anohter french pup owner who said this dry food refusal was an issue for him too...he did the recommended starvations days and it worked...i am fed up with this...i am rebelling...i have decided...all this dry food must have nutritian etc as claimed...but DOGS DON'T LIKE IT ! so ? with a pup ? i am going to MAKE AN EFFORT to find DECENT WET FOOD and mix it. sigh. fed up. i don't want to cook ...but surely...some fresh meat from butchers, rice, anything won't be that difficult...a pup should enjoy its food. starving it ? so that it eats what we want it to ? stuff that.

My dog was poorly recently and had to be admitted to vets.  They said she refused Royal Canine but "she really liked boiled chicken and rice, sorry" lol. This is second time she has had a stay at vets and she point black refuses Royal Canine, whereas she will eat other brands as mentioned in another post. They can be fussy  and will play on it if they think they can get away with it, just like children and their vegetables.

ooh..whilst struggling with pup undoing my sandles with velcro...pleased to read this...royal canin is the culprit !!! THAT IS THE COMMON FACTOR !! i am WELL fed up with this ! what a RIDICULOUS worry to have ! a dog not eating !!!! a pup ! not a sick dog even ! i am well fed up with ROYAL CANIN ! thx

maybe your pup is trying to tell you something Black Fairy that raw food is good for her lol Sorry I know I am biased and I am really not having a dig at people who prefer to feed dry completes.
Black Fairy you really do not have to cook anything. Raw is better than cooked as long as you are comfrotable dealing with raw meat and can give her a variety at prices that you can afford. Its not usually in this country dearer than things like royal canin just throw it down. My 2 (pomx and gsd had bowls of raw tripe last night mxd with chicken necks it was a delight watching them tuck in
Have pm you with good website

My 4 dogs and many others that i know love the taste of Royal Canin. Its like people some people like different food to others, i personally hate fish but others love it. Its not royal canin's fault if your dog doesn't like their food, many other dogs and cats do. Just try another dog food for your pup. Trouble is most pups will want human food all the time instead of their biscuits but it is not correctly balanced nutrition. I would love to eat fast food all the time but i know i've also got to eat fruit and vegetables. Dogs can't make that choice so we must make it for them.

well the VERDICT IS OUT...for today...i got a different brand after rowing with shop guy...quite normal in France to do that...i wanted WET food...he said that is RUBBISH...try these better ones...

http://www.obcarskas.eu/resources/achat.JPG

THE DECISION WAS MADE !! TODAY !! by 16.30 pm French time...had not eaten ALL DAY..decision by Black Fairy...she just ate ? the 3rd dish of food on the floor...TOTALLY ! not the 2 dishes of different dry croquettes...but ? RAW MINCED BEEF !! I have never, seen Black Fairy finish a plate of food ! until now ! licking her lips to the last morsel...even the KITTEN does not EAT THE CROQUETTES left out there ! would make him ill probably ! has more sense !

http://www.obcarskas.eu/resources/16.22lundifeelecheseslevresfinieassietteviandecrueboeuftigrouregarde.JPG

now...ALL advice on RAW FOOD !!! VEGETARIAN ALSO WANTED !!! thisi is now REVOLUTION TIME ! i REVOLT ! like my pup has for over a month and other pups too that have been STARVED to just MAKE THEM EAT what may well be FACTORY MADE PEFECT NUTRITION for dogs ! but ? they DO NOT LIKE IT ! so ? WHEN ARE WE HUMANS GOING TO START PILL POPPING NUTRITION THAT IS TASTELESS LIKE WE EXPECT OUR DOGS AND CATS TO ??? HEY ??? I ASK YOU !!! because i say NON ! my pup WANTS to eat !DOES EAT ! many things ! just HATES the CROQUETTES DRY FOOD ! and ? i don't blame her. I CAN;T SMELL ANYTHING on them ! so ? a dog ? why should we force this stuff on them !

> now...ALL advice on RAW FOOD !!!

Join the BritBarf yahoogroup - much experience and advice there on all ways of raw feeding.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/BritBarf/

mes chers, i am going there once i get my poison as i call it of fags...was bank hol in France yesterday bars tabacs shut...so ? my tenseness was starting up by 8pm...i could feel some tiredness and slight negative feelings towards my pup as she launched as usual evenings into hyper bite inner legs chests etc mode to play wiht me...sigh...i yelled once actually...she IGNORED that...is not used to me shouting so it has not effect on her...sigh...thinks i am playing with her probably...liking the biting even...sigh...

what was i saying ? ooh yes...BARF read up...needs my FULL attention..so i need some fags i have not given up yet to concentrate fully on it. THEN i can go find the raw meat..hunt it myself even if needed...but i will READ first...why ? well i am nervous...once i ate and made 2 men i was with sick at a campsite in garmisch partenkirchen southern germany, very hots summer, we were working there, and camping and got a raw chicken we left in tent a day or so..then cooked it...then the 2 men were sick...it had some white worms in it...heat...does that fast to raw meat...and the stream we drank water from ? was just downstream of a hotel with open sewage going inot it...sigh...makes watching out not to drink from streams in the lake district where sheep droppings can infect water pussyfoot stuff in comparison;...now..i was not ill  of course...the men complained about that...i am very resistant to bugs myself i add...but pups die from things in teh wild...and raw meat ...i must read up to make sure i do not kill her from left in heat raw meat too long with worms...or whatever...thx...now...walkies to the bar that IS open today for fags....DO NOT START to smoke is better than givingt up as with most bad things in life i add...