I was thinking of hijacking this Lab neutering thread, but thought I'd ask as separate question...

A while ago I asked about my boy with only 1 descended testicle, and when would be the right time to neuter, if at all.  I'd decided that he would probably have the undescended one removed at about 2 years old, and would possibly keep the other.

He is a very happy boy, he loves everything.  However, other dogs are becoming less keen on him.  He is learning to keep out of their way and ignore them (initially he just wanted to play with them!).  My trainer (who is actually very good with most things, uses very modern and very gentle techniques) thinks it's because he has his bits (or bit :-)) and is on at me to get him neutered... now.  She says that it is for his own good, because although he is oblivious to other dogs' anger now, he is likely to get fed up with it and retaliate.  At the moment, I just can't see this happening, but I'm not a behaviourist... and have never kept a dog entire over the age of 1.

The only other problem I have with him is his exuberance.  He can be manic on an offlead walk, although his recall is pretty good now, he'd run around like a wild thing given the chance.  I think this is normal behaviour for his age, but I remember my other boy's recall and excitability improved after neutering.  I don't think I would neuter for this reason alone, when there is no guarantee that it would be fixed and he is likely to grow out of it when fully matured. 

To do it now would feel like I was neutering my dog to convenience other owners whose dogs take a disliking to him... and that just doesn't sound like a good reason to me, but I am willing to be persuaded otherwise!!  I'm sorry to keep asking about this, it's really a hard decision to make :-(  I'm pretty sure that timing is crucial for neutering and I've got it wrong before... don't want to make a mistake and spoil my boy's amazing temperament. 

So.. do I believe my trainer, who has given me excellent advice in the past... or do I stick to the plan, and risk him becoming grumpy? 

Thanks,

Clare

Me personally maybe would do it just after 12 months and I have to say I'd have both taken out.

Its a difficult one. I had the same problem with my springer, he was constantly getting picked on because he was entire so i had him castrated at about 18 months. Sadly he then became aggresive himself, i presume because the reduction in testosterone made him more nervous. However i have no doubt that if left entire he would have become nasty as well as he would just enter a room at training and dogs (who are normally lovely) would lunge at him for no reason! He eventially would have become fear aggressive any way. I think young adolescent males do get picked on by other dogs to keep them in their place so to speak, but i would imagine this passes as they get older. The problem arises if they have slightly nervous temperaments anyway like Murphy did.
Is it possible that its his behaviour that is causing the dogs to dislike him, many dogs disloke bouncy exhuberant teenagers and it may jsut be that they percieve him as rude?
I would probably be inclined to wait a bit longer and see how things pan out, but i personally would be tempted to just remove both when you have the op, mainly to avoid cancer in later years, but thats just my opinion. People have various views regarding castration, and you tend to find you get a different point of view from different forums. As you say he is a happy outgoing boy its unlikely to have any negative effects on his temperament and i can only see benefits.

Thanks both.  Not the answers I was expecting, which is probably a good thing... and has given me more to think about  :-)  He'll probably be an old man before I can make my mind up...

Haven't read the other replies - but other entire males often get grumpy with exuberant male adolescents in my experience - they know they are dealing with a "teenager", and it settles as they mature into adults. Ditto the exuberance.

But it's a difficult one, because yes, they can get FED UP with being beaten up and retaliate - but I think that's where the training and sussing out the other owners/ dogs comes into play - recalling from the ones that look like they might get mardy until the hormones have settled and he is past "Kevin". But with a gentle, even-tempered dog, they probably won't change unless they have a really bad attack - a lot of things that look like attacks are nothing more than 'posturing' and "having words" - things can look/ sound like a scrap when they aren't, IYSWIM.

And that doesn't help 'cos it still leaves you with the decision. :-D Statistically neutered males are supposed to live longer - but they are also more prone to weight gain, and unwanted attentions from other dogs. Have I muddied the waters for you sufficiently? ;-)

PS Some dogs get 'picked on' because they are naturally "submissive" (not a word I like) or anxious (unlikely to be the case with your boy I suspect!) - in which castration can make things worse, as it takes the testosterone 'ego boost' off the dog and makes them more anxious.

The weight gain is usually because people don't tend to reduce the amount of food they feed post neutering. I think it needs to be reduced by about a third. All my dogs are neutered (3 girls, one boy) and none of them are overweight. I suppose you could argue that a neutered dog costs less to feed, which could be a good thing!

Just wondering - what does his breeder say? :-)

It does sound to me as if it is just the "kevin" stage.  After all, you say he is a happy boy.  Many years ago I had a boy castrated too soon, believing misguided advice. 

I have a Border Collie, nearly 5 years old now, and he had a testicle retained in the inguinal canal.  But I didn't have it removed until after he was a year old.  BC's tend to be sensitive anyway, and I didn't want him to end up being submissive.  Or going the other way!

Having had numerous cryptorchids in rescue I must say that dogs DO react different to them - both neutered and entire dogs seem to pick on them more. At least this is my experience.

I always had them neutered ASAP as I once had a cryptorchid boxer dog he was a surrender to the pound and 14 months old. The retained testicle had a huge growth on it. Ever since I am not taking any chances anymore.

>Just wondering - what does his breeder say?

She has gone underground ;-)

>Having had numerous cryptorchids in rescue I must say that dogs DO react different to them - both neutered and entire dogs seem to pick on them more. At least this is my experience.

My dog is a true monorchid (he only ever had one and still has it) and doesnt get picked on by others, he is very good at reading other dogs and generally knows when to steer clear ..... my other entire muppet on the other hand constantly gets into scuffles !!

Perhaps the reason lies in the retained testicle and the hormon over production which can occur. Alot of the cryptorchids I had here were also hyperactive.