Hi,

Am I right in thinking that a puppy from a show kennel should be a little calmer than from the working line? My friend had a beautiful male from the Catcombe line (working line) and he was a real handful and quite highly strung for a family dog. We are looking for a bitch, so hopefully a little calmer and we want one to fit well into family life (two children 6 and 8). I know they all have different personalities and you cant generalise too much but if I went for a bitch from two showing parents, does this give me the best chance?

I wouldn't say that a bitch will be calmer necessarily, either from working or show lines. As with all dogs, some are naturally calmer than others.

You are right that show bred dogs are generally calmer than their working cousins, who by their very nature want to be busy. The breeder should be able to guide you towards a "calmer" puppy as he/she will know the personalities in the litter.

My current 2 Goldies (1 male, 1 female) are both show bred, are very easy to live with, but are still quite lively. The latter was chosen as she was a little more "active" than the others in the litter because I wanted to do agility with her. She has also been the easiest dog I've ever had to train.
HTH.

The kennel you mention has both working and show lines. They work all their dogs I believe, so even the show lines are dual purpose. I have a dog and bitch, both with Catcombe in their pedigree, and both are really great pets. I think generally, though if it's a purely working bred GR then they will be higher energy.

As the previous poster said, it's probably more that the puppy they had wasn't particularly suited to their situation. If you want a more laid back puppy, make sure you ask the breeder to help you with your choice. In your case, especially if you haven't had a puppy before, it could be a massive mistake to just go and choose a puppy, without any guidance. If you have children, make sure you get a relatively calm pup who is not the bully of the bunch, but definitely not nervous.

If you meet the mother (which is always advisable), make sure she's laid back and not nervous at all. If you can meet her before the litter even better as you'll get a really good chance to see what she's really like. Ask the breeder what she was like as a youngster, and also ask about the personality of the father of the pups.

In my own experience, we managed to "fit" the puppy with the new owners, and this helped them no end. We had a mixture of personalities and only the people with no children got the "pickles" of the litter...lol! We made our choice of stud partly on his personality, he was sooo laid back & this did definitely reflect in the puppies.

I was just wondering why a bitch rather than a dog? I know everyone has their preferences, but in my experience, the males I've had are just such fantastic dogs. Bitches have this thing called hormones.... the bane of every woman's life..., although are loving and gentle as a whole.

Good choice on breed...

Good luck in your search

Thank you all for your help, it really is great to have different views and lots of info to make the right choice.

Yep bitches have hormones, which cause them to be in season twice a year or so, but males have hormones that effect them all year round LOL.

All that leg lifting ;)

> but males have hormones that effect them all year round LOL.
>

Men eh :-D !!

What an exciting time for you and well done on taking so much time to make the right decision. Good point by Brainless about the boys.

I love them both, but in my experience golden bitches do seem to be an easier option than dogs. Obviously there are exceptions to the rule and the individual puppies do have different characters, but I don't think the girls are quite as challenging in the adolescent years. With the exception of the baby puppies we get coming to club, ALL the goldens that we get are young adolescent males.

Another possible consideration is size, bitches are considerably smaller than the boys, and this might make things a little easier as you have a young family.

Good luck with your search. If you contact your local breed club, they should have a puppy register and you can be assured that you will be directed to a responsible breeder who carries out all the necessary health checks, etc. Please don't be fooled that a KC Accredited Breeder offers you any assurances of the same.

Hi.

We have a 4 month old golden retriever bitch who is from showing lines and I have to say she is the most laid back,gentle and easy to train puppy I have ever had.  We also have 2 children aged 2 and 7 and she is an angel with them,so gentle not once jumped up,bitten or taken anything from their hands.

Obviously we have put a lot of effort into her and will continue to do so,but they are a fantastic breed and very easy,just make sure you visit the breeder and mum as many time as possible,to be sure that she has a good tempremant.

I hope this has been of some help.

I have a male GR and have to say he is fantastic - wonderful temperament, full of go when you need him to be and couch potato when needed :-) He was a rescue at 9 weeks old so his parentage is unknown (although we were told he came from a reputable breeder but not which one) but I have been told he would appear to be from working lines rather than show lines. We were very lucky to have been able to have him and he has lived up to and far exceeded my expectations.

She sounds perfect, just what we would like!!

well, i am told in the country here, which annoyed me i add being a female myself and having female pup, that MALE pups bond better to FEMALE OWNERS and FEMALE pups to MALE owners.

just IMAGINE how i felt hearing that hey ! not pleased ! i started watching any man my pup made a fuss over jealously thinking...she might wish  HE was her master !

i went for a FEMALE because the males were sold out of course. ( my breed..the males have a lion type collar of fur around neck that is found very attractive...hence i think the preference for males in my belgian breed...the females are more ELEGANT i add of face and body) i thought initially...less problems with a male..no heats. then ? i realised i do not like the MALE lifting up leg to pee thing at every post they pass for some dogs. my rabbits have one male that does that...SPRAYS me in fact...one out of 3 is ok i say to that...but males are a nuissance for marking territories...and one can't TELL which one is more territorial of course as pup no doubt unless showing signs at 8 weeks old !!! LOL !

AND i was told...a MALE dog will SMELL a bitch on heat 4km away so more likely to WaNDER off looking for her !

oooh i did nto fancy that...so ? i like having a bitch myself.

IF SHE LIKES FEMALES ! if that theory is rubbish ? !!

as for SHOW versus WORKING dogs ? ah...a sore subject on many forums i add i have read.

I personally believe...ALL the dogs of ANY breed have the breed skills if developped. I do not believe myself that a dog is beautiful therefore useless at herding or whatever...it is just HOW IT IS BROUGHT UP !

that is MY personal view...the ONLY dog i had i COULD nto keep ? a Welsh Border COlley...HATED being inside...from a line of dogs NEVER living in surburbia...he went to a farm after a few weeks of being unhappy with me i add...but it could have been a fluke ! each dog is individual surely !

so ? my advice is TAKE CARE of the BREED GENERALLY you go for more than the LINE allegedly of the dogs ! pets not working dogs ? well any can be that i say ! being a house developped dog makes any dog calmer i say ! let them loose to develop otherwise ? and hey ! you could find TERRIERS catching rabbits rats all sorts !

I wouldn't have though the sex of the dog and owner would make any difference to how they bond. Some dogs have an individual preference maybe, but its not universal. My male springer loves me dearly but is better behaved for my boyfriend. My female dogs are very bonded to me.
There is a definate difference between show and working lines in some breeds, i have found quite a marked difference in size, appearance and working drive in show and working goldens, and although there is individual variations i think working bred dogs are not necessarily good pets  if not given something to do. I must admit i have had experience of working dogs from the catcombe line  (purely working) and adore them, but then i look for working drive as i work my dogs in agility and flyball, so they would probably have a bit too much energy for a pet home.

that is reassuring...the female pup and human thing...and i wanted an active dog myself...but i wanted it all ! beauty and brains ! if that is not an insult to calm dogs...not intended...but one finds rather pc type expressions here so wary of saying that...still...said it...i say...it is like saying blonde women have no brains ! or models ! that is not so ! i don't know then WHY a show line would be calmer ? just character ? or is there some memory of inheritance...? it is a complex genetical issue i think this. copying the parents i suggest is more the NURTURE influence on the pups at formative early weeks before letting them loose on new owners ?

my border was obviously of working mother...so outside much ! copied her mother ? nurture theory ? not so much therefore as nature genetically different essentially !!!

Its more to do witt the fact that working dogs are bred to carry on their working ability. You breed from the ones that are best able to do the job. Show dogs are bred to match the breed standard, but this doesn't necessarily  mean that they inherited the working ability as such as the motivation and drive may not be there. If a working dog looked the part but had no motivation you wouldn't breed from it to get another working dog, but if the confirmation is correct and the dog does well in the show ring you would want to carry on the line. Ideally the dogs should be able to do both, but then some people don't want a hyper worky dog and the show lines may make better pets. There is nothing to say that working bred dogs aren't beautiful, i think both are beautiful in different ways.
Your belgian may be a working breed, but did her parents actually work? That makes a difference as well.

I'm told by several breed specialists that a working-bred Belgian (in the UK at any rate) is inadvisable as a pet because they can be so very difficult to manage successfully; the ones from show lines can be difficult enough but the working lines are extremely challenging. It might well be different on the continent.

I think you are right there JG, i don't think proper working bred belgians are suitable for an ordinary pet home.

Sorry that should read are NOT suitable for an ordinary pet home!

There is soem geenral truth to that theory, in the same wasy as many daughters get on best with Father and boys with mothers.

I have always owned bitches and until 2 years ago lived with my two children (1 male one female), but the dogs looked to em for everything.  Certainly one girl was very attached to my son, but I have a breed that is not a one person breed.

Since my husband came along my youngest bitch is definitely Daddies girl, but does not respect him as much as me as I am the one to feed walk etc them all.  Her mother definitely likes men the best but loves everyone,a nd I feel no jealousy as they all show me sufficient affection :)

Personally I do not want or need an overly needy dog, and would hate the responsibility of being their all.

the line has working belgians in it yes. her father is big on agility, sheep herding uncle same mother as my pup. and the latest bitch the breeders have is the most difficult character boisterous they have ever had. also descendant related to mother of my pup.

the breed is not recommended as first dog owner dog for sure. they need all high exercise. that is why i wanted one. the difference with the welsh border seems to be that belgians like to be inside with owners greatly. are very one person attached dogs i read.

most of the pups of this breeder that faced sheep tests had abilities. not all react if they are trained to be too owner close i was told...you can kill the drive instinct if you try and keep your dog to heel too much.

now the elkhounds i was reading about are hunter dogs and pack dogs...so like what is the word...a pack family environment. well this pup i can say is not keen on company with us unless under her sight and observation ! and SITS immediately where my friend was sitting the moment he moves off there !!! LOL !! i must read these books arriving..but my friend says...she is TOLERATING and SUPERVISING him...and shoving him out of what she considers HER space !!! LOL ! she does NOT do that to where I SIT ! LOL !!

it is SUCH fun dogs. psychology of. theories. i must read all these books and keep reading here.

shame there are not BREED SPECIFIC type discussions even i just thought...each time i see a post...i go look what BREED the poster has and try to understand the dog type ! it fascinates me ! and teaches me interesting things !

I am jsut back from pup classes...only had half of it...they moved off in cars without saying where and i was supposed to follow...but followed a wrong car...sigh...my pup EXCELLED in the time on the SLALOM wire tube and TUNNEL things...needed NO encouragement to shoot though them over and over again !

she was the only pup off lead permanently...did not bother other dogs..just 1....her brother...he was much better this time...and she kept an eye on me sat by me often ignoring ALL other people and dogs except her breeders...greeted them wildly...

i was told by brother owner that she was sat WATCHING and WAITING as i came through the thicket pathway after she had went through with brother...she was not only focused on the brother dog...but i do not make her stick close to me all the time...i saw a terrier that was PERFECT there...a pup under his master's feet as first choice all the time if not doing anything...

it is different what different people are suited to and want in dogs as in people. what i want from my pup ? is to only obey me...to pay me attention but to take initiative herself...and perform useful things like tracking agility for HER enjoyment as well as mine watching her. she LIKES being useful...likes carrying her lead, my bag if she can drag it...LOOKS to do that without ME having asked it of her at all ! it was a surprise and NUISSANCE even when she started doing that i must say .

i thew her ball and told her to fetch it when waiting for the start...the person next to me was surprised to see her bring it back..and the 2nd time when distracted and left it...i told her to go get it where it was lying as i do and she went off and got it. now that i say is clever...i am lazy...if i throw the ball and she is distracted...i am not going to go collect it as a norm...so i insisted by just not going to get it myself in the past that SHE gets it when the madam has stopped sniffing or whatever she was distracted by somtimes. Just repeated FETCH BALL to her.

we had a litter of pups that were retrieving toys on command at 7-8 weeks, its amazing how quickly some breeds learn these things. What is a slalom wire tube? I do hope you aren't teaching her weaving poles at 4 months old! You shouldn't do anything like that until a year old.

good to know other pups retrieve naturally...would you believe me...yes...the 1st NIGHT i took her home ? she BROUGHT ME THE BALL 2 times at once first here ! within 10 minutes of being in a new place ! i was shocked...have the video of it !!!

oh yes..slalom is the wire windy thing ! why not so young ? all the pups were doing it....she liked it !

Because it puts far too much pressure on the joints. Of you want to do agility training at suc ha young age you should not be doing anything other than running over poles on the ground, going through tunnels and walking along planks on the ground. You have plenty of time in the future to do agility and should be concentrating on the basics like sit, stay, down, come etc to get the control first. If you do to much high impact stuff now you will find you may shorten your pup's working life as you may cause joint problems that may prevent her from continuing to do agility as she gets older. Weaving involves incredible flexion throughout the dog's body and shouldn't be done at this age, its just not neccessary yet. In this country you can't compete until the dog is 18 months, this is to prevent the dog doing too much too young.

right. i understand that. well i must add the pups were only encouraged to do it say 2 times each...the purpose of the rattling bottles the dragging them on a moving sheet on the ground unbalancing them and the tunnels and walk the plank as i call the one thing Fairy is not compfortable yet with...not used to heights...was shoving her little head into my chest in fear a bit on that again yesterday, did not need pushing much though to move eventually ....whenever she is nervous she sticks herself against my body...in front of me or as on the plank up high with me right next to her her paws on my shoulders and nose into my chest...meaning PICK ME UP off here ! LOL ! breeder spotted this last time and said i must stop molly coddling her or she will be fearful...he is right ...she must stand her ground without ALWAYS running to me if afraid in time...but i know she sees me as protection of her so not dissuading her too much yet...now the slalom i can see could be too much twisting...so not good to do repeatedly...prat...i was so pleased i called out SLALOM to her once i had been told the word and she belted into it again..only needs to hear a word 2 times and learn it that way this pup...the breeder was not pleased i was taking initiative for that i add..so he must know the limits for pups and just wants to accustome them to things...he gets annoyed at her lack of collar and refuses to walk the plank unless she has it on and he or i hold it as she walks i add. THAT is not bad...it is a gentle walk up and accross and down. just i avoid stairs and discourage her from leaping on couches to protect her little legs of course so she was surprised i was asking this of her.

ooh i had another of my distasteful frog encounters in the lost in france bit second half i missed due to not knowing where they were going ...public parc i think...shame i missed that...anyhows...i pulled up at the end of a road to let pup out from car sickness she has in a field...must have disturbed intentions of some "lovebirds"" as the couple with a yorkshire terrier...BEAUTIFULLY groomed i add.. tiny 4 year old...tried to tell me that snakes might be in the long grass...tried to get me to go look for my colleagues...THEN of course told me i was AMERICAN...twice...i quietly said no i am French twice....and at the 3RD REFUSAL as i call it ...i thought...lookie here...i tolerate saying things only TWICE to my PUP FAIRY so ? BEWARE HUMANS !!! i am NOT A YANK !!! sigh. i however did not BITE them...or growl...i was busy looking for FAIRY's ball....i said to nervous giggles and a scuttling off back to their car....well yes, there are Black skinned French and French with funny accents FRench....but I KNOW THAT I AM NOT AMERICAN ! OOH that shut them up !!! LOL !!! of course not too much BRAIN IN GEAR there i add...if they had LOOKED at my MITSUBISHI SHOGUN...?right IN FRONT Of them next to me !! they might have seen ? GB STICKER and RIGHT HAND DRIVE wheel !!!! not too bright these frogs when a PRECONCEPTION takes them ! i DO NOT HAVE AN AMERICAN ACCENT I ADD ! it is a mishmash yes...of PEASANT FRENCH and VARIOUS foreign influences only !!! LOL !!!

aha ! as i write this...doing BITE INHIBITION with the kitten on its back...Fairy was doing her BITE THROAT bit...i say DOUCEMENT DOUCEMENT each time...she lets go...kitten had miowed...had claws out though...anyhows....Fairy then took to pouncing 2 front paws on its tummmy instead....LOL !!!! she does understand...to PLAY she has to go easier with the throttling !

clever pup...she ADORED the tunnels on ground at the class...so ? in the field was a discarded concrete HUGE pipe..i thought...ooh ! lets do it here ! but she was not interested...i did not insist...had a look inside ???? ooh....nasty human waste...and BROKEN GLASS of alcohol bottles ! NOT A GOOD IDEA ! could have SLICED her paws in there ! i really should LOOK first myself before thinking up some idea for her like that ! probably smellt horrid in there...waste of all sorts.