I have a Spaniel who I beleive has this muscle wasting condition in her head - she is 5 year old and now  has no muscle tone in her head at all  and limited opening of her mouth.  Apart from the lack of muscle tone in her head, she is quite well.  I have suggested this to the vet yesterday and he has set off bloods for the 3M test yesterday to see the full dianosis but I am convinced that that is what this is - hhas her on 20 mg of prednisolsone from today.  Has anyone had any dealings with his horrible disease or any pointers that you can provide. 

PM me if you wish. I have personal experience of this

Diane

Hi - any info is appreciated
Thnx

If you want to give me a ring  01427 873035

Diane

Hi Diane - thought I'd give you a quick update on Lily as I said I would.  It has been confirmed, a sI suspected,  that she does have MM - her readings are in the middle group at 1-100 group.  The vet has upped her Pred to 12 tabs per day (60mg) in accordance with her 22kgs body weight.  Seems so many horrid drugs and she did seem to be doing so well on her meagre 4 tabs per day - but if this is the route we have to take to beat this disease then so be it.  I just wanted to ask - did your girl have bad diahorrea once she started on the large dose of pred - the dose was increased over the weekend gradually and she started with this on Sunday evening.  It's not that she is going constantly but she is extremely loose (to say the least) and has a bad case of wind!! (sorry if you are eating your breakfast/tea when you read this) I did speak to the vet y'day and he said to wait 48 hrs just to see if it settles down as she might have picked up a tummy bug but I think that it's the tabs.  He has also put her on 1 tab 1 hr prior to taking her pred to help line the stomach.
Thanks
Jo x

Hi Jo, Not the diagnosis you wanted but at least you know now and she CAN beat it. Nona was on 100mg of Pred a day as she weighed a little more. No we didnt have Dire Rear, wind yes and the need to wee at least every hour.....floods.

Keep me in the loop...I'm thinking of you and Lily.

Diane

Hi Diane - thanks.  will check back with the vet tomorrow for his advice also.  Plenty of weeing enough to sink a ship and enough wind to blow one off course:-))  I feel for the poor little girl - she just can't understand why she feels so crap.  Having said that, she still is going out for her walks and her mouth still opens so picking up toys so I remain optimistic.
Kind regrds
Jox

I am so pleased your dog is being treated properly as i lost my dog a week and a half ago

It was suspected he had this but the vets never did do the proper test and put him on steroids for a few weeks at most - he had the same, no muscle tone in his head, difficulty opening his mouth - after 5 months of it all and all sorts of drugs i lost him to kidney failure

Not trying to scare you as obviously your dog is being treated but i would love to know how you get on and how your dog is - Giving all the drugs is horrible but its for the best

Hi Jo & Leo
I am so very sorry to hear that you lost your dog through this horrible disease, it's one of the hardest things I have ever had to do in making that final decision, but there comes a time when it is the kindest thing you can do.  I know how dreadful kidney failure is as I lost Bracken my foundation bitch to it at 7 years old - and very quickly over a period of 2 weeks.  Although I do not think MMM is a rare condition, it's amazing how many vets and people who have been involved with dogs for a long time don't seem to have come across it before.  I honestly think, and no disrespect to my vet, who is wonderful, if I hadn't done the research and taken advice from friends who had a Springer with this probem (who survived this problem) and also a really helpful contributor on Champ dogs, I think Lily's prognosis would be a lot worse than it is - so for this I  am eternally grateful.  Hopefully we caught it and treated it earlier enough. Strange thing is that we have been treating her for over a year for runny eyes with numerous amounts of tablets, creams and steriod drops so whether it was a side effect or the running eyes kicked this off I guess I'll  never know but now she is on the pred her eyes have almost stopped running.  It's only when you have all the different things that have occurred/occurring can you slowly put together a jigsaw.   Pays to be persistent - I am very lucky with my vet who will listen  to my suggestions - after all we generally know our dogs the best and although they can't tell us, we know when something is wrong.  I think my vets know I will do research on any thing my dogs come down with - I often turn up at the surgery armed with stuff downloaded from the internet - sometimes not helpful but in this case I think it has helped..  I guess they deal with so very many different illnesses and ailments it would be impossible to cover absoultely everything.  Thank goodness for like minded individuals who use this forum   - it has vertainly helped me no end with advice support ands kind words and suggestions especially on this issue. My thoughts are with you following your loss - but rest assurred that your boy will be now pain free at Rainbow Bridge - and maybe if he sees a beautiful Springer girl, looking every bit the lady - it's probably my sweet Bracken.
Take care
Jox

I have to say i am VERY unhappy with my old vets they kept changing the vet who saw him who all changed his medication - decided antibiotics were the answer to everything, I tried saying what id seen on the internet about it and they didnt care. They asked how he was in himself and when i told them they basically didnt believe me and said just put him down - I was shocked!

The vet who did put him down is near my work now i have moved and i am registering my new pups there as they were absolutely fantastic, even tonight when i went to collect leos ashes

I will definitely be more persistent in future if i think my dogs are not being treated correctly that's for sure

> Although I do not think MMM is a rare condition, it's amazing how many vets and people who have been involved with dogs for a long time don't seem to have come across it before

Interesting!
I know of 2 Rottweilers (mother and son) who have had it and 2 Cavaliers who have it...........and yesterday I heard of yet another.
More common that first thought.

Hi - how distressing for you - we have to rely so heavily for the right advice and treatment for our pets so I  can only imagine how let down you must feel.  So glad that you now have, what sounds like, a much better vet - hopefully you won't have to make too many visits :-)) 
Take care
Jo

It's amazing isn't it - that as soon as you start asking around or mentioning a condition/illness, the amount of us 'lay people' who has heard of/ been affected by.  Good job we have this network for the transferance of information.  Incidentally - did the dogs you mention manage to survive it?

As for the mother and son Rottweilers, mother is still alive, still with sunken head but very good for 12, her son was a sorry sight, then died of the effects of another Autoimmune disease.
The Cavaliers, one on high doses of steroids, is running and playing like normal at a good age - 9 I think, the others were pts but this maybe clouded because of other health issues, severity etc.

This is the third reference to this condition I've encountered this week....strange!

I have to ask if anyone here knows - is there any way this could be contagious as the vets seem to know nothing about it? I am getting next week 2 8 week old lab pups and i intende 2 disinfect everything in their vicinity of course but i just wanted to check?

something else may or may not work - do you think we should set up a website about it? (im a web designer) i would have really appreciated the info and  treatment even if its only posted on here it doesnt seem as uncommon as the vets made me think??

NO this is not contagious. MMM is not an illness in itself its an auto immune mediated condition which attacks the unique 2M  muscle fibres in the jaw. It can be  brought on as a result of something else possibly ( trauma, stress, Toxoplasmosis, Ehlirchiosis). The immune sytem is very complex and no one really knows why these 2M fibres are suddenly under attck by the dog's own body.

The Rottweiler mother and son I mentioned came from a family of immune-compromised dogs ranging from ineffectual vaccination reactions to leukaemia.

Jo - it wouldn't do any harm to.  Any amount of information is helpful if you have any suspicion on this MM or your vet is uncertain on a diagnosis.  And at least it could potentially get the test done early enough so could point people in the right direction when they are looking for some guidance if they do encounter any of the symptoms.  Happy to provide any imformation on Lily if you want anything as far I understand it - but I am not of the medical 'ilk'- just a lay person trying to nurse my sick dog back to health.  I know there are other people out there who have had similar experiences and are far more knowlegeable about the problem.
Jo

I agree with the other post - there doesn't seem to be any indication that this is contagious.  My other 3 are fine one of which is a 4.5 mmonth old springer

......and best of luck with the 2 pups - you are in for a lot of fun!!
Jox

Hi Diane - when we last spoke you mentioned a medicine to help put the lining on Lilly's stomach - I have got it written down as anceptcin but I think that that is the wrong spelling.  My vet has given her cimetadine which doesn't seem to be having the desired effect as there was a bit of blood in her poo today (sorry for being so graphic) - still has 'the runs' so I think I need to convince him to try the one that you mentioned.
Thanks as always
Jo

>I have got it written down as anceptcin but I think that that is the wrong spelling.

Antepsin. :-)

Thanks - looking at this medication it seems to be more suitable to preventing upset gastric issues rather than the other tablet which, when I searched oin the internet removes the pain with Irritable bowel syndrome.  I'll be down the vets pronto tomorrow am and request some and see how it goes................................
lol all for your help on this one
xx

Sorry Ive been away just got back and saw your post, yes its Antepsin

Diane

Hi All
Just thought I'd give you an update on Lily's condition.  Glad to say that she has finally settled down on the pred after a pretty distressing and worrying few days over last week end.  What with the weather being so unbelievably hot combined with the upset stomach from the medfication I really thought I was going to loose her.  Fortunately my own vet was back in on Monday so off I trooped again as I was so concerned about the constant Diarrhoea which was showing signs of blood - together with heavy panting and def in a distressed state.  I can say that a) I'm glad I am not on a water meter and b) if muck was money after the previous 10 days I'd be a millionaire!!  As if on cue, Lily had an accident in the vets so he saw the problem 1st hand :-(( which distressed her immensely.  The vet dropped her dose from 12 tabs per day to 6, (she weighs just over 20kg) so he said this was still a large dose but better that she coped with the dose than have her as she was.  She also remains on the Cemetidine and he has finally gave me Anceptin together with Buscopan (with her food) My day now starts at 4am with the Cemetidine, then an hour later the Antepsin followed by breakfast at 6am (hers not mine!!)- and the same at the other end of the day.  Within a couple of days I am pleased to say that she was pretty much back to her old self and the Diarrhoea has now completely stopped so I can roll the hose pipe up and put away the  rubber gloves and stop my bulk order with the kitchen roll company!  She still reamins ravenously hungry and is drinking buckets of water but if this is her lot then I can manage this - hopefully after 10 days of this dose we can start to reduce the meds down again and see if she has this condition under control.

Very many thanks to everyone who has helped with info - I'll keep you posted on developments
Jx

Thanks for the update and Im glad she has a regime now that suits her. Fingers crossed when the meds reduce, I am rooting for her.

Diane

Hi Jo ,
Have been following your posts with great interest ..I am a friend of Mandy's so can sympathise with what you are going through with Lily. I also have a friend in my own breed who has a bitch with MM and survived,  at the time I recognised the symptoms from Mandy' s bitch my friend mentioned it to her vet and the diagnosis was made sooner rather than later.

I have had a male dog on high dose of pred for a different illness the thirst and peeing are a nightmare but when we wake up in the morning and they are still with us wagging thier tail it makes it worth while and so much easier to cope with.

Thinking of you all and sending our best wishes for a speedy recovery of your dear Lily.

Roni

Really pleased to hear its now under control - i can sympathise with the mess, first with leo being ill and now 2 puppies - great isnt it! LOL

Keep us updated please

Hi All
Vets visit today and he was really pleased with her progress/stabilisation.  Have stopped the buscopan and am continuing on the rest for another 2 weeks then hope to start reducing other tabs.

Thanks for all your kind words and support - you have been a great help.
Jo &  Lily x

Excellent news, I'll keep watching

Diane

Hi - just a quick update on Lily - 6 weeks have now  gone by since she had her last Prednisolone - we had been gradually weaning her down to one tablet every other day - it like a lifetime ago since she was having to take 12 per day!!  Took  her to the vets after the first 2 weeks of being drug free and he was delighted with her progress - didn't want to see her til January for her booster (whch she won't be having!) Only time will tell now if we have this thing beaten or at least under control - but looking at her head there is muscle tone back - so fingers crossed. She doesn't have that drawn expresson any more.
I am noticing little things too - she can actually yawn now and bark!! The fact that her muscles were destroyed in her face meant that simple things like yawning were practically impossible - so it's all progress - slow but def a step in the right direction. She is playing with the pup now again which is lovely to see since she was diagnosed in May and is so much happier in herself and starting to enjoy her walks  and life again - she was out chasing squirrels yesterday. The squirrels weren't that happy but it was a pleasure to see her back to something like the old Lily was.  She looks a bit of a mess though coat wise so  have clipped her beautiful coat off to give it chance to grow back healthy - and she has lost pretty much all her lovely feathers - she actually looks like a Brittany at the moment!  If this is the best it gets then I am more than happy - I didn't think think that she would make it a one stage and thought we were going to loose her so I am thankful. You never know - once all the drugs are out of her system the feathering may come back -if not I am not bothered - I'd rather have her bald than not at all.  Thanks to you all for your help and advice - it has been invaluable and if anyone does end up with their dog having this awful conditon - please feel free to contact me for some information

That's wonderful news. I hope she continues improving for you.

Jo, Just wonderful news of Lily, you must be so pleased. May seems a long times ago and I have be wondering how you have both been. Let us know how she continues, best wishes Lacy.

How fantastic there must have been times when you, like me, wondered if she would get through it. Treasure that girl, she is a fighter, I look at mine every day and think how different it might have been.

Diane

This is a wounderful story and bless you for fighting so hard with her. Glad to see its working well the feathers will return (having a cocker myself!!) Im sure you have this MM undercontrol keep us posted I like a happy ending!