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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / stud dog question
- By white lilly [gb] Date 15.05.10 08:53 UTC
what is to stop people using your dogs kc number to register a litter that he hasnt sired? i know you have to sign the form, but what if its been faked? would the kennel get intouch everytime he is used at stud ?
thanks x
- By kayc [gb] Date 15.05.10 09:31 UTC Edited 15.05.10 09:33 UTC
Yes. Every time a litter is registered, the Sire's owner is notified, and given time to reply if the registration is incorrect..

Many breeders also subscribe to the BRS, and I would imagine most breeders who have a dog standing at stud would check this too.

This is for on-line registrations...

For paper trail registrations, the signature, ownership and KC details should be checked by the KC before registering.. which is probably why it takes a little longer for documentation to sent out
- By white lilly [gb] Date 15.05.10 09:43 UTC
thankyou kay ,we have been asked for our boy to be used and wanted to make sure has this is the fist time weve owned a boy and will be studing him out x
- By kayc [gb] Date 15.05.10 10:00 UTC
I hope all goes well...

Can I also add a little correction, to which we see so many times on here, and elswhere.. Breeders do NOT stud their dog out.. nor do we own 'stud dogs' 

The prefered and correct term is 'standing a dog at stud' 

There is nothing worse than hearing someone continually talking about their stud!  No matter how many times a boy is used, he is still a pet/showdog/working dog/ whatever dog, who stands at stud ;-)
- By Brainless [gb] Date 15.05.10 10:07 UTC
The reference to stud dog is really for use by the bitch owner when referring to the dog they have mated their bitch to.

I would never dream of calling any of my girls 'My Brood bitch' though it would be correct to refer to her as the brood bitch when referring to the mating.
- By white lilly [gb] Date 15.05.10 10:26 UTC
sorry (red face) thanks for putting me right :) kay and brainless xx
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 15.05.10 10:36 UTC
Don't know I do think some slip through the net.  I never sent a removal of restrictions letter for a bitch to the KC but a litter has been registered.
- By welshie [cz] Date 15.05.10 10:40 UTC
wonder sometimes if putting a restriction on is of any use Do the k/c check these things
makes you wonder!!
- By Brainless [gb] Date 15.05.10 11:01 UTC

> I never sent a removal of restrictions letter for a bitch to the KC but a litter has been registered.


Have you queried it?
- By kayc [gb] Date 15.05.10 11:09 UTC
Yes the KC do check.. I registered my litter born to Beanie a year past March, and the KC wrote back to me telling me they could not register the litter as I had not lifted the restrictions I had place on her when I registered her birth.. I phoned the KC and asked if they could just lift the restrictions on her, since I was also her breeder, and they said no... I must put my request in writing (not e-mail)...

When they sent back my registrations for the pups, they also sent me a confirmation letter for lifting the restrictions...
- By Brainless [gb] Date 15.05.10 11:23 UTC
I had same as you Kay as I had forgotten to lift the restriction on my own breeding.
- By Blue Date 15.05.10 14:45 UTC
The kennel club have never missed mine.  I forget to lift them even if I own , bred and out on the endorsement.   They always reject it and I have to send my own letter in lifting them for myself. You can't do it online as it tells you

If any have slipped the net by the kennel club I would be suprised as electonically they have to remove it to allow even them to process the litters. 
- By crinklecut [gb] Date 15.05.10 15:41 UTC
My boys last litter (10 weeks old now) were registered online by the breeder - I was not notified
- By Brainless [gb] Date 15.05.10 15:50 UTC
Everyone I know has had a letter from the kennel club, are your address details up to date with the KC?
- By perrodeagua [gb] Date 15.05.10 16:00 UTC
No didn't query it as in reality I would have removed it but was a bit upset about it at the time.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 15.05.10 16:18 UTC
If things are getting through when they shouldn't it needs to be brought to the KC's attention so the leak can be plugged, as one may get through that is not meant to.
- By crinklecut [gb] Date 16.05.10 07:56 UTC
Yes Brainless, all my details are up to date. There is not a problem with the registrations at all as all is 'above board' and I know it was definitely done on-line as I was talking to the breeder on the telephone as he was doing it.
- By white lilly [gb] Date 16.05.10 09:56 UTC
now thats a worry!!! have you spoke to the kc about this ?
- By kayc [gb] Date 16.05.10 10:04 UTC
Postal system is not foolproof.. it may be the KC did send out paperwork, it just never reached you..

Phone the KC, they will be able to tell you when the letter was sent..
- By Brainless [gb] Date 16.05.10 14:24 UTC

> I know it was definitely done on-line as I was talking to the breeder on the telephone as he was doing it.


Oh you can register the litter, but they then write to the stud owner to tell them of this and if there is an objection or it never happened then the registrations can be withdrawn, which is why they ask the breeder to have a signed form1 in case.
- By crinklecut [gb] Date 16.05.10 14:58 UTC
No White Lily, I wasn't aware until this thread that I should have been contacted. My boys have been used a number of times and I find it hard to believe that this would have been the first on-line one, I have never been contacted by the KC yet. A phone call to the KC may be in order.
- By dollster [gb] Date 20.05.10 08:21 UTC
You usually get a email, i have asked that none of my boys puppies be registered online.  Although they werent happy they did 'make a note' of it, wether its works in the future we will wait and see.
- By Wirelincs [gb] Date 20.05.10 11:38 UTC
I have always got a snail mail letter from the KC informing me I have 7 days to query anything.
- By LizandDogs [gb] Date 20.05.10 12:15 UTC
I've had written confirmation for all of the times I have let my boy be used too
- By Terrano0 [gb] Date 20.05.10 12:21 UTC
I've only ever had bitches but it makes me think. To register a litter of pups with KC does the sire need to have a registered stud number? I know obviously both parents need to be reg with kc.
- By Jeangenie [gb] Date 20.05.10 12:24 UTC

>To register a litter of pups with KC does the sire need to have a registered stud number?


No - you're understandably getting confused with the Stud Book number, which is something else entirely, and not limited to males. (Very confusing!)
- By Terrano0 [gb] Date 20.05.10 12:43 UTC
Stud book number is obtained by winning a qualifying place in a class in a champ show? So any litter of pups can be reg from any kennel club reg pair?
- By white lilly [gb] Date 20.05.10 12:50 UTC
yes as long as not close family and are same breed
- By Blue Date 20.05.10 12:54 UTC
Why would you not want any of you dogs offspring registered online. You get a confirmation either way.
- By Goldmali Date 20.05.10 13:00 UTC
So any litter of pups can be reg from any kennel club reg pair?

As long as the dogs are not endorsed not for breeding. Most good breeders endorse all their pups and will not lift it unless the relevant health tests have been carried out with good results, and the dog has proved itself worthy of being bred from by doing well either at shows or in any form of work.
- By Lexy [gb] Date 20.05.10 13:13 UTC
I think unless your litter, is by your own dog then registerring online is open to all sorts of abuse/misuse. I am a firm believer, that litters should be registerred the good old fashioned way...by paper, through the post with signatures etc.
- By Blue Date 20.05.10 13:21 UTC
Just as well the rest of the world, business and banks dont think in such an old fashioned way or we would never move forward ?

You get a letter saying the litter has been done.  You can only register a litter online with the KC number,  fraud can be committed as easily on paper by someone sending in a green form signed.   They do not check signature on stud forms as they may never have had the owner signature in the first place.

6 and 2 x 3s really.

It can only be misused if the stud dog owner carelessly doesn't check their records once they receive the KC notification. That would be the stud dog owners fault not the KC :-)
- By Lexy [gb] Date 20.05.10 13:25 UTC

> Just as well the rest of the world, business and banks dont think in such an old fashioned way or we would never move forward ?
>
> You get a letter saying the litter has been done.  You can only register a litter online with the KC number,  fraud can be committed as easily on paper by someone sending in a green form signed.   They do not check signature on stud forms as they may never have had the owner signature in the first place.
>
> 6 and 2 x 3s really.
>
> It can only be misused if the stud dog owner carelessly doesn't check their records once they receive the KC notification. That would be the stud dog owners fault not the KC :-)


Whoa...just where did that come from?? I did not say I was against online, or I wouldn't be here would I???
- By Blue Date 20.05.10 13:32 UTC

Whoa...just where did that come from??
Where did what come from?  

I didn't say you said you were again online. Just rechecked nope never mentioned you were against online :-)

You said litters should be registered the old fashioned way via the post,  I pointed out that it was just as well everyone else doesn't think like that :-) what you see as important businesses will also see as important if not more so, however loads of transactions that were normally done by paper are now done on line , Tax for cars, loans etc  all equally important things.

There is no more risk with doing the litters online that doing it with a green form whatsoever or the service would not be available.
- By white lilly [gb] Date 20.05.10 14:17 UTC
as i have got a post going im hoping its ok to use this? ,its about our dog we are useing him to our girl she is on day 12 she is flirting with him and playing but when he jumps on her she moves or sits down ? dont think weve missed cus hes been around her from day 9 and she told him off ,but shes not doing this now, she will mount our other girl ,she will let him on but then sits? she is maiden and dog only had 1 litter?
- By Goldmali Date 20.05.10 14:56 UTC
Doesn't sound like she is ready yet.
- By Terrano0 [gb] Date 20.05.10 15:29 UTC
That might explain why my girl is late? Mated days 11 and 13, wouldn't stand for stud, but humped anything else in sight. Last time mated days 12 and 13 didn't stand then either. Poss conceive 2 days later making this day 63? If this makes sense?
- By Brainless [gb] Date 20.05.10 17:03 UTC

> wouldn't stand for stud


> Last time mated days 12 and 13 didn't stand then either.


If she wasn't standing (showing receptivity) how did you achieve a mating????

I do hope you were not party to a forced mating, and you mean that she was fidgety, and not resistant.

Just want to clarify as people read these boards to gain advice in similar situations, and any forced mating is not only cruel, but often a waste of time/counterproductive if a bitch isn't ready for mating yet.
- By Terrano0 [gb] Date 20.05.10 17:24 UTC
I mean that she was wanting to sit down when he approached and tried chased him and tried to mount him, and flirt with him all day, she normally wouldn't go near another dog as she is quite timid, she wasn't forced in any way. Either time. She wasn't held against her will either, she didn't resist or cry, she was ready in the eyes of the experienced breeder who just asked me to stop her fidgeting. Hope this makes sense. I would never force a mating or want to be part of it.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 20.05.10 17:38 UTC
Thanks for confiming that :)
- By white lilly [gb] Date 20.05.10 17:38 UTC
i will keep tring them and see what happens , her sister was day 12 and 14 but i know all are differnt ,think im worried weve missed ,she is swollen but no blood at all now ?
- By Terrano0 [gb] Date 20.05.10 17:46 UTC
Also i used to show EBT, and tried breeding my bitch, she was so receptive it was embarrassing, fortunately she never took.
- By JeanSW Date 20.05.10 21:29 UTC

> she is flirting with him and playing but when he jumps on her she moves or sits down


I had a visiting bitch on Tuesday, she was exactly the same.  Offered to keep her here, but they don't live too far away, so came back tonight.  We had only just turned to speak to each other, and looked down to find our dogs tied.  Didn't even say hello to each other! 

So, I'm guessing that she is just not quite ready yet.
- By white lilly [gb] Date 20.05.10 22:05 UTC
yes i think well hope its this :) im sure it is, will try for 20mins tomorrow and keep going lol ive got feeling might be saturday ,was going to get her tested but dont see the point now im using my own boy! plus having 3week old pups here makes it harder to keep going to vets with her.

jean what day was the visiting bitch on when she came to you on tuesday? x
- By JeanSW Date 20.05.10 22:42 UTC
It was a maiden bitch, and when I asked the owners if they would recognise if she was ready, they preferred me to check.  When they came on Tuesday, it was day 9.  When I checked her vulva, she felt too firm to me, and too swollen.  On day 11 she had gone down some, and was definitely softer.

She absolutely pulled her owner in when she knew where she was coming.  It was very obvious that something would happen.  She will be coming back for another tie, but to be honest, if she isn't pregnant, I will eat my hat!

It's never easy to guess when the right day will be for a maiden, and,as I've had girls of my own flag from day 3, and mate on day 8, I know that there's nothing worse than getting there too late!  Yet I've had girls stay, and not be ready until day 19 - and still conceive.  I think they like to keep us guessing!  :-)
- By white lilly [gb] Date 21.05.10 10:09 UTC
thanks jean LOL they sure do! x
- By white lilly [gb] Date 23.05.10 11:57 UTC
well today is day 16 for her she not stand for him and now he dont seen that interested in her :( so it looks like weve missed.or could it be that its so hot?
- By Trialist Date 23.05.10 12:28 UTC Edited 23.05.10 12:30 UTC
Yet I've had girls stay, and not be ready until day 19 - and still conceive

Good job you weren't looking after my girly then ... you'd have had her another 10 days!!! :-) :-)

I think they like to keep us guessing!  

I think I'm inclined to agree :-) :-) :-)
- By JeanSW Date 23.05.10 13:21 UTC

> Good job you weren't looking after my girly then ... you'd have had her another 10 days!!!


LOL!!!   I once had a girl here for two weeks!  Owners had experienced a bitch standing very, very early, and didn't want to miss her.

I was sure that they thought I was exaggerating every time they phoned, only to be told that nothing had happened!

She mated on day 17, 18, & 19!  And was a total trollop once she knew that she was calling the shots!  :-)  :-)

Successful pregnancy and she was just fine.  I didn't mind her staying, because she happily went to bed with me as if she had done it all her life. 
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / stud dog question

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